Bought a Fuzion, now unsure

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by Javi

Just my opinion.. you will not win unless you have more money than the ownership of the dealer.

If you really do like the trailer then bite the bullet and go buy a dually and enjoy the trailer.

In the greater scheme of things you will come out ahead of many of us,

I bought a truck because I bought a trailer too big for the truck I owned.
I then bought a trailer that I settled for because the truck I had just purchased was too light for the trailer I really wanted.
Finally, I gave up and bought a dually and bought the trailer I wanted all along.

Save yourself a hundred thousand dollars and go right to the dually.

Good advise if the next conversation goes nowhere. I personally would give the head honcho the chance to fix it.

[flybouy]

First call your State's Attorney's office and get someone in consumer affairs. I know most states have a period of time where you have to negate a purchase or negate aa contract.

I agree with talking with the dealership. If it's going nowhere ask to speak with the boss's boss. Tell them you have been on social media and everyone says that they screwed up and put you and your family in real danger. Stress the danger and the AMOUNT of weight that it's over. Anyone in the business of selling campers could see that's too much trailer for your truck and the salesman HAD TO KNOW, SUSPECT, OR HE'S TOTALLY INCOMPETENT. Tell them you depended and TRUSTED their expertise and now you feel violated and feel like you're being "held hostage" by paying for something that you cannot possibly use. This would be my approach. YMMV

Don't come out of the gate with lawyer threats. That will most likely be met with a "have your lawyer call our lawyer now please leave". I would assume the dealership has a law firm on retainer and on speed dial. Keystone undoubtedly has attorneys in house.

I'm no attorney but if the dealer isn't cooperative you will be fighting an uphill battle that will cost you more than a new truck. There is so much legal speak in the contracts the "we're covered" should be stamped beside their name. If you look closely at every bit of advertising, weight charts, etc. for both truck and trailer you will find the disclaimer in some form about it being the owner's responsibility to use the product within the limits posted on the vehicle. If you call an attorney ask them if they will take the case with only payment coming from winning. I can't imagine any would. The only way they get paid is if there's damages, i.e. lost wages, loss of property, pain and suffering, a death, etc.

If the road ends up as a dead end then my suggestion would be to park it at a seasonal site and enjoy it until you can get a truck to pull it. Then at least you can get something for the money you have tied up in it. Good luck to you and keep us posted on how it goes. Believe me, your not the first to be in this position and you won't be the last so the information you share could be very beneficial to the community.

[sourdough]

In my previous post about using a "sledgehammer" I want to clarify that I don't mean a lawyer - I don't think you will win that. You need to push all the buttons at the dealership, forcefully, but once the legal game is played everyone retreats behind the legal team. Go in looking for an amenable solution for both of you, stress the dangerous game they are playing with people's lives doing what they are doing, ask for a fair move to the Cougar but be prepared to walk away (unhappily and grumbling) looking for a new truck. Good luck in your efforts.

[Badbart56]

Also know that the power of the pen is mighty. Long story short, I had a problem with a Ford product some years ago. I found an auto forum that I vented on and a reporter from a rather large newspaper contacted me and asked permission to use my letter in his column that Friday. The next morning I got a phone call from a vice president at Ford Motor Company asking where the closest dealer was from my home. He asked me to take the car there and all repairs would be done on their dime. I explained that I had already had the repairs done at an independent facility and he told me I would be reimbursed and they would do the repairs again to their satisfaction.

In another instance when I worked at a Chevy dealer a man was unhappy with the price he was charged at the service department for an A/C compressor replacement late on a Friday. Monday morning when I arrived he was picketing on the sidewalk out front along the roadway. When the dealership owner arrived he asked what that was all about. After hearing the explanation he told the service director to "give him whatever it takes to make him go away"!

There are ways.....

[Vinnie]

there's a billboard right next to the dealership that could eventually see some verbiage on it about negligent sales practices and how this business doesn't care about your safety...

[Badbart56]

Originally Posted by Vinnie

there's a billboard right next to the dealership that could eventually see some verbiage on it about negligent sales practices and how this business doesn't care about your safety...

Absolutely! Auto dealers don't like bad publicity!

[flybouy]

In 1985 we bought a brand new Mercury Grand Marquis. About 18 months later the gray paint was fading horribly. Dealer refused to do anything. I complained and they conceded to set up a meeting with the Ford rep about a month later.

That day it was raining and the rep who was the biggest jerk I ever met looked at the car, rubbed his finger on the hood (it was raining lightly) and arrogantly proclaimed that it was just dirty. I followed him and the owner of the dealership back inside and in a rather robust voice asked the owner "do you sell this junk to everybody or just me?"

I pointed across the highway to a lumber yard and told the two of them that I was going over there to buy paint and brushes and some supplies. The Ford rep laughed and said you can't paint a car with a brush. I replied no, but I can paint a 4 by 8 sheet of plywood with red paint that says "I bought this junk here" tie to the roof and parki it on the street out front.

I left in a huff and drove across the road. The owner of the dealership came running across the highway and asked me if I could bring it in the next day. Three days later I drove it back home with a new paint job.

There wasn't any social media back then so I did what I thought would work and it did.

[BeagleMan]

Originally Posted by Badbart56

Also know that the power of the pen is mighty. Long story short, I had a problem with a Ford product some years ago. I found an auto forum that I vented on and a reporter from a rather large newspaper contacted me and asked permission to use my letter in his column that Friday. The next morning I got a phone call from a vice president at Ford Motor Company asking where the closest dealer was from my home. He asked me to take the car there and all repairs would be done on their dime. I explained that I had already had the repairs done at an independent facility and he told me I would be reimbursed and they would do the repairs again to their satisfaction.

In another instance when I worked at a Chevy dealer a man was unhappy with the price he was charged at the service department for an A/C compressor replacement late on a Friday. Monday morning when I arrived he was picketing on the sidewalk out front along the roadway. When the dealership owner arrived he asked what that was all about. After hearing the explanation he told the service director to "give him whatever it takes to make him go away"!

There are ways.....

Dammmmmnnn!!!

[BeagleMan]

Originally Posted by flybouy

In 1985 we bought a brand new Mercury Grand Marquis. About 18 months later the gray paint was fading horribly. Dealer refused to do anything. I complained and they conceded to set up a meeting with the Ford rep about a month later.

That day it was raining and the rep who was the biggest jerk I ever met looked at the car, rubbed his finger on the hood (it was raining lightly) and arrogantly proclaimed that it was just dirty. I followed him and the owner of the dealership back inside and in a rather robust voice asked the owner "do you sell this junk to everybody or just me?"

I pointed across the highway to a lumber yard and told the two of them that I was going over there to buy paint and brushes and some supplies. The Ford rep laughed and said you can't paint a car with a brush. I replied no, but I can paint a 4 by 8 sheet of plywood with red paint that says "I bought this junk here" tie to the roof and parki it on the street out front.

I left in a huff and drove across the road. The owner of the dealership came running across the highway and asked me if I could bring it in the next day. Three days later I drove it back home with a new paint job.

There wasn't any social media back then so I did what I thought would work and it did.

Dammmmmmnnn!! #2!!

Ya'll got some cajones!

[Vinnie]

2nd conversation went poorly. Manager apparently checked up and down his chain of command and ensured the only thing he's sticking to that he's got to ensure- that the dry weight of the camper is within the max tow rating of my truck. He also offered to install airbags to somehow magically alleviate the exceeding TV-GVWR problem, and wouldn't accept that this was not a solution supported by any kind of physics analysis. He reminded me that I signed the paper taking liability of all things tow-related and tried to wash his hands of me that way. When I wouldn't let up, he hung up and went home, apparently.

And he still owes me $37k+ for my trade that he's going to make $50k+ profit on easily, but that's another story. This fella is one phone call away from me sitting on the sidewalk with a sign slandering his business.

[chuckster57]

“Dry weight”? That’s a good one, who tows any trailer at “dry weight”? And then adding insult by offering air bags?

I’m waiting to hear what happens next.

[Vinnie]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

“Dry weight”? That’s a good one, who tows any trailer at “dry weight”? And then adding insult by offering air bags?

I’m waiting to hear what happens next.

Yeah I asked him if he expects me to actually USE the trailer, and God forbid actually put a four-wheeler in the garage, you know, like it's intended to be used. He went back to his old "the only thing we have to ensure is..." nonsense.

This dude is too stubborn to realize that he's in a unique position to make even more money off of me, if he just gives up the "you bought it, you signed it, now f**k off" attitude. He's certainly not making me ever want to come back to him for the stupid spiffs I dumped a few thousand dollars into, and I sure as hell am not going to recommend that business to anyone but an enemy, and even then, probably not. Bad business, amplified, simply because he's too proud to admit anyone in his shop made a mistake.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Vinnie

2nd conversation went poorly. Manager apparently checked up and down his chain of command and ensured the only thing he's sticking to that he's got to ensure- that the dry weight of the camper is within the max tow rating of my truck. He also offered to install airbags to somehow magically alleviate the exceeding TV-GVWR problem, and wouldn't accept that this was not a solution supported by any kind of physics analysis. He reminded me that I signed the paper taking liability of all things tow-related and tried to wash his hands of me that way. When I wouldn't let up, he hung up and went home, apparently.

And he still owes me $37k+ for my trade that he's going to make $50k+ profit on easily, but that's another story. This fella is one phone call away from me sitting on the sidewalk with a sign slandering his business.

Originally Posted by chuckster57

“Dry weight”? That’s a good one, who tows any trailer at “dry weight”? And then adding insult by offering air bags?

I’m waiting to hear what happens next.

Well I think I would consider the sign on the sidewalk in front of the dealership. It seems to me that he would be better off taking the truck back and offering to apply your trade in to a more capable TV.

I agree with Chuckster, only needing to be within dry weight is crazy, some trailers have 4,000#+ payloads.

Best of luck dealing with these guys!

[dutchmensport]

Originally Posted by Vinnie

I like the way you think, but damn I really don't want to try and squeeze that big a truck in my garage (or a parking space at Home Depot)!

What's more important, a parking space at Home Depot; or you, your wife, your kids and $175,000 worth of vehicle (truck and trailer) splattered all over the road? Think about it!

I haven't read all the posts here, but just a glance. One thing to consider if getting an attorney ... they are EXPENSIVE!

We had to get an attorney 13 years ago and they wouldn't even touch us unless we gave them an up-front $2000 retainer fee first, and then they charged $250 for EVERY hour they had anything to do with us. An E-mail was charged 1/4 hour, the reply was charged 1/4 hour. The drive time for the lawyer to court was charged at $250 and hour, plus the time actually waiting our time to be heard. The defendant pulled MANY continuances on us or was a no show. When we finally were forced to drop the case all together, we had paid the lawyer nearly $20,000 and got absolutely NOTHING back. And we had to end up dropping the case.

The advise to get a lawyer is not good advise. You will loose .... you may win your case, but you'll still end up loosing financially, MUCH more than you can possibly imagine right now.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Badbart56

Tell them to trade you out for a dually and you won't sue them for "negligently putting your family at risk"! It wouldn't hurt if you know a good attorney. Dealerships (both truck and RV) should be held responsible for selling you a product that is not up to the task you ask for in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Vinnie

I like the way you think, but damn I really don't want to try and squeeze that big a truck in my garage (or a parking space at Home Depot)!

Well likely the second time I have said something to this Vinnie post.
We have one vehicle as we full time and it is a 2016 Ram 3500 DRW Long Bed, I park where I want at Home Depot, and the grocery store, I will go in parking garages if I have enough overhead clearance. Parking in lots like HD, I will back in much easier to get in and better visibility leaving.

DW drives it also, without issue, our youngest daughter has a 2004 Ram 3500 DRW for towing her horse trailers, she handles her truck and trailers like an over the road driver.
You learn to deal with the "HIPS".

[Vinnie]

Still getting nowhere with the dealership. They won't even let me come pick up the check they owe me (as was noted upon signing)- got a call first thing this morning from the business office confirming my address for overnight mail

Originally we wanted to keep our truck (DW loves her truck) and have them essentially trade us the big toy hauler for a bunkhouse Cougar, which, admittedly, would have still redlined the cargo capacity. Now the more we think about it, we'd be happier keeping the toy hauler and trading her beautiful truck for something as identical as possible, but a dually. Oddly enough, the equivalent dually sells for about $10k less than the SRW models, so I may come out even in that regard.

I haven't lost the fire for my crusade, however. I want to make this guy beg for mercy, offer me anything I want in desperation, then tell him "nah, we're good." I also want to use some of my contacts at NHTSA to change up some of the RV seller regulations, because that kind of negligent ignorance shouldn't be allowed. I'll make sure his name and the business name are all over the proposed bills so everyone in the industry knows who to blame.

I had already checked the case though my favorite attorney, who agreed I had a case, but his firm was too far away to take it. He offered me some locals who would, with the same caveat- unless there were damages to leverage, the legal battle wouldn't get far. I've back-burnered that in favor of a slander war. It's fun when you literally have nothing to lose- it's not like he's going to void the contract he's been hiding behind. I can start with the online reviews (which I've already left a heavily solicited glowing 5-star one upon purchase- that's going to be edited), and go from there. That check for my trade will cover a few months of billboard rental, I think...

[Vinnie]

Seeking trade-in options now... 3.55 or 4.10?
I'm leaning towards 4.10, as my current truck is a 3.55 and it felt like an octogenarian having a heart attack trying to pull the empty trailer up my semi-steep driveway.

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by Vinnie

Seeking trade-in options now... 3.55 or 4.10?
I'm leaning towards 4.10, as my current truck is a 3.55 and it felt like an octogenarian having a heart attack trying to pull the empty trailer up my semi-steep driveway.

Wouldn't do less than 3:73 rear end. The 3:55 may suffer at take off feeling a bit sluggish & with the 4:10 the mileage may suffer. With that said, newer trucks with 8-10 speed tranny's I'm sure what's what anymore.
My last '13 GMC with the Duramax/Allison had the 6 speed with the 3:73 & had plenty of power & got decent mileage.

[BrooksFam]

I vote 4:10

[Javi]

I'm pulling 15K with the 3:73's and if I had anymore weight back there I'd want the 4:10's for sure...