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Old 02-16-2019, 01:08 PM   #1
Cpap
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Weight transfer questions

Back story: So, I picked my new camper and hitch up a few weeks ago and I was with the tech who was setting the hitch up and all he was going to do is set the hitch so trailer is level. He wasn't going to measure the wheel well height at all so I did. When he was done my truck was 1/4" higher in the front loaded than it was unloaded. I thought this seemed pretty good so I took it. After towing the camper home ~200 miles I suspected the hitch needed some adjusting by the way it felt

Current situation: I've added 1 more washer to my equalizer 4 point sway control hitch and took it to the scales. My unloaded front axle weight is 4200 lbs. Loaded front axle weight with WDH is 3800 lbs. 400 lbs. lighter seems like too much to me. I have 1300 lbs. tongue weight on 1400 lb. load bars.

Questions:
I have more washers to add as well as the option to raise my load bar bracket height but should I expect to be able to transfer 400 more lbs?

Am I overthinking this? If my front wheel well height is good, which I suspect it is, should I go with it?
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Old 02-16-2019, 01:35 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpap View Post
Back story: ...
Questions:
I have more washers to add as well as the option to raise my load bar bracket height but should I expect to be able to transfer 400 more lbs?

Am I overthinking this? If my front wheel well height is good, which I suspect it is, should I go with it?
The answer is a qualified NO

According to the "experts" at etrailer, when properly set up, a WD hitch should transfer about 33% of the tongue weight forward and about 33% back to the trailer axles. So, with about 1200 pounds of tongue weight, 33% is 400 pounds forward and 400 pounds back. If you "try to balance the front axle weight, then you're already there. Attempting to transfer "400 more pounds) would, essentially put you at a "zero/negative" tongue weight, since shifting weight forward also shifts about the same weight back. That means 800 pounds on the front axle and 800 pounds on the trailer axles. With 1200 pounds of weight, shifting 800 forward/800 rear, would mean NEGATIVE 400 at the ball (lifting the ball coupler off the ball). Doing that may well overload your trailer axles (depending on your cargo capacity and your GVW based on how much weight you're carrying)....

The recommended procedure is not to weigh the front of the tow vehicle, but to measure it and return the "front suspension load" to near the same as the unhitched height (not weight).

Here's how etrailer explains it: https://www.etrailer.com/question-88658.html

An exact figure can't be given although some claim that when properly setup 33 percent will be on the trailer axle, 33 percent on the tongue weight, and 33 percent on the front axle. However, this isn't accurate due to slight variances in the setup can cause all the figures to be all over the place.

Here's how Equalizer explains it: https://www.equalizerhitch.com/blog/...cle-or-trailer

I'd suggest you measure your front wheelwell height unhitched, then hitch the trailer and measure the front wheelwell height. Try to get as close to the unhitched measurement as you can and see how it tows. IMHO, cranking down the WD bars to a point of putting 800 pounds of transferred weight from a 1200 pound hitch weight is overloading the front axle and the trailer axle while making the actual weight on the ball far too low (lifting it in many cases)...
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Old 02-16-2019, 01:51 PM   #3
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Thanks, I will look at the rest of my weights and re-measure my front suspension. You have jogged my memory, I have read that on etrailer in the past. It is not intuitive, for me anyhow, to think of it transferring weight to the trailer axles. I have read that ideally a perfect set up WDH would return your front axle weight to it's unloaded weight. This is what was driving my thought process. I have open access to a scale on a military base so I will have to do some experimenting.
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Old 02-16-2019, 04:26 PM   #4
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Set it as recommended. John has pointed you in the right direction. You CAN keep adjusting them, and I have. On my first "larger" bumper pull (25') I had returned from a trip (work - newbie) and had had a terrible towing experience (ill equipped truck). I decided to "adjust" the wdh to ratchet it up a bit "make it better". Loaded the trailer and took off on my next trip....hit the little bump crossing the street down the way from my house and...I lost momentum as I was driving, the engine revved up and....as the weight of the tongue came back down the tires hit the pavement and I shot forward. I immediately stopped and readjusted the chains.... So just cranking them up for the heck of it is not a good thing.
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Old 02-16-2019, 06:01 PM   #5
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I agree that you need to adjust the WDH using the height measurements of the front (and rear) fenders of the TV, etc.

However, did you notice that Cpap said the weight of his front axle *reduced* by 400 lbs when adding the trailer w/WDH? Does this seem right, that hitching up the trailer w/WDH will actually unload the front wheels by 400 lbs?

It was my understanding that the addition of the tongue weight should be shared by all three points (front axle, rear axle and trailer axles).
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Old 02-16-2019, 08:42 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by MarkEHansen View Post
I agree that you need to adjust the WDH using the height measurements of the front (and rear) fenders of the TV, etc.

However, did you notice that Cpap said the weight of his front axle *reduced* by 400 lbs when adding the trailer w/WDH? Does this seem right, that hitching up the trailer w/WDH will actually unload the front wheels by 400 lbs?

It was my understanding that the addition of the tongue weight should be shared by all three points (front axle, rear axle and trailer axles).
cpap didn't tell us the "front axle weight without WD tension on the hitch.

While the "400 pounds" may seem like a lot of weight "lifted" from the front axle, from a physics perspective, it depends on the hitch distance from the rear axle (fulcrum) and the distance from the fulcrum to the front axle. The objective isn't to have "the same weight" on the front axle, it's to load the front axle so the truck "geometry" returns to the "non-trailer height" which will put the majority of the "lifted weight" back on the front axle....

It's not critical that the front axle weight be "proportionally equal" to the load on the rear axle, but it is necessary that the front axle have sufficient weight to maintain steering/braking control at all times.

I'd think (objectively) that if the front axle height is returned to within 1/4" of the measurement of the unloaded truck, then that's a start and once the trailer is loaded for travel, if it's still there, then give it a try.

EDIT: Removed reference to half ton truck as OP has a 3/4 ton.
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Old 02-17-2019, 03:28 AM   #7
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I like to keep it simpler. You want to have more than enough truck loaded with gear and your trailer also loaded to simulate travel weights. Make sure you have the proper rated WDH. When your set up is perfect, the trailer is level and the truck heights are pretty much the same.
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Old 02-17-2019, 06:24 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
cpap didn't tell us the "front axle weight without WD tension on the hitch.
This is what I saw from the original post:
Quote:
My unloaded front axle weight is 4200 lbs. Loaded front axle weight with WDH is 3800 lbs. 400 lbs. lighter seems like too much to me.
Perhaps I misunderstood what he meant by this?

As I said, I agree the correct way to adjust a WDH is using the measurements described in the hitch manufacturer's instructions. I just thought the comment from the OP seemed unusual.
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Old 02-17-2019, 06:41 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkEHansen View Post
This is what I saw from the original post:
Perhaps I misunderstood what he meant by this?
My unloaded front axle weight is 4200 lbs. Loaded front axle weight with WDH is 3800 lbs. 400 lbs. lighter seems like too much to me. As I said, I agree the correct way to adjust a WDH is using the measurements described in the hitch manufacturer's instructions. I just thought the comment from the OP seemed unusual.
He didn't tell us how much weight was "lifted" from the front axle when the trailer was hitched "WITHOUT" the WD bars installed. So we don't know how much weight is actually applied to the front axle, we only know the comparison of "no trailer/WD weight". There's the "no WD weight" that's lifted which is that middle equation.

Sort of like, "I had 20 dollars, bought lunch and some snacks and have $5 left". We don't know how much lunch cost or how much was spent on snacks. just the final figures.
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Old 02-17-2019, 07:20 AM   #10
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I realize that the OP didn't give us the weight on his axles when the trailer was on the hitch w/out the WDH bars in place. I've read the instructions on the proper way to check and adjust a WDH and have done it more than a few times myself and believe I understand it - I'm not asking for instructions on how to properly set up a WDH.

However, it seems to me the point of the WDH is to distribute the weight of the trailer tongue across the trailer/tow vehicle (not always equally, of course).

So, it is reasonable that after you hitch the trailer to the TV with the WDH in place, that the weight on the front axle actually unloads by 400 pounds?

I would expect that after hitching up the trailer using a (reasonably properly set up WDH) that the weight on all three points (front axle, rear axle trailer axle(s)) will increase to some extent.
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Old 02-17-2019, 01:19 PM   #11
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Here's what I found on the current truck/trailer. Drove it home after the dealer set it up. It drove like normal, being in braking and steering. If you ever get to much weight off the front axle to effect steering you will know it right away and had better fix it right away. Braking distance is also changed.
I weighed in at the ODOT scale nearby and found I was 200 to 300 lbs lighter on the front axle when WDH and trailer connected. The change was which link I used. But, again no change was felt when driving. I checked the height of the front fender to tire empty and connected. I do not recall any change. I asked the service dept. manger at the dealer during the next visit with my weight numbers. He said on my truck 200 lbs off the front axle is no big deal. That was before I told him of the driving experience. Is he a expert? I do not know. All I am saying is that was his response. My truck drives/steers as good as empty. It does take more distance to stop when loaded. Would the same change in front axle weight change the loading to a unsafe truck. If the truck has a shorter wheel base and or lighter GVWR than mine, it could or might. I am only sure mine is fine with what I have.
I do not know how the OPs base scale is calibrated. I do know the ODOT scales.
They show weight in 20 lb numbers and are certified to be accurate to 200 lbs. of what they show.
Some say CAT scales are 100% but I really doubt anyone using them knows. The operator of the scales may or may not know. They would not be going to court to prove the scale readings.
I had to learn how/when DOT scales are done for court testimony . And have the paperwork to show the certification on a overweight case. So 200 lbs plus/minus, the real number will be in there somewhere on these DOT/ ODOT scales.
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Old 02-17-2019, 01:54 PM   #12
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Ken,

CAT scales are certified in the state where located. These are two FAQs from the CAT scale website: https://catscale.com/contact-us/faq/

Are all CAT Scales certified?
Yes, all CAT Scales are certified in the state they are located in.

What is the CAT Scale Guarantee?
CAT Scale offers on unconditional Guarantee “If you get an overweight fine from the state after our scale showed your legal, we will immediately check our scale. If our scale is wrong, we will reimburse you for the fine. If our scale is correct, a representative of CAT Scale Company will appear in court with the driver as a witness”. It’s that simple, and just another reason why we are your #1 choice.
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Old 02-17-2019, 03:35 PM   #13
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John, that's a good warranty claim. I doubt it is the operator that gives you advice at the scale would back you up in court was my point. Like the guy that pumps gas and giving advice about the pump or fuel. It's likely above their pay grade. I will admit I have never been through one.
Bottom line sounds like if you do not have a free scale nearby the small fee at a CAT would be worth it.
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Old 03-01-2019, 08:41 AM   #14
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The easiest way to solve your issue without causing a safety issue is to install a set of Airbags on your rear axle. I have used Firestone Airbags for the last 12 years with absolutely no issues. The trick is to get the height of the front of your tow vehicle unloaded and then connect your trailer, then air up the bags until the front bumper is at the level necessary. My Airbags can handle a bit over 100 lbs of pressure. I normally have to use 85/90 lbs to get level with my F250/31KFW.
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Old 03-01-2019, 10:10 PM   #15
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I have air bags on this truck and had them on the last. No need to use them with this TT even if bed is full of gear. I used them when carrying a truck camper and pulled the listed boat. I ran 20 to 30 psi to get level. I do not have the weight of those items but it was around 8,000 lbs of camper and boat. Your using a lot of air to get level how much over the rear axle and or gross vehicle wt rate.
A couple years ago I carried pallets of tile for brother in laws business. I put in around 50 lbs to get level and later checked the weight of the load by the shipping papers, It was over 5,000 lb of tile. Yeah, the truck drove fine and was easy to keep it at 70 on the freeway. It steered great, stopping was longer. The next loads I only put in half that amount the tile just to be safe.
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Old 03-02-2019, 08:12 AM   #16
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The easiest way to solve your issue without causing a safety issue is to install a set of Airbags on your rear axle. I have used Firestone Airbags for the last 12 years with absolutely no issues. The trick is to get the height of the front of your tow vehicle unloaded and then connect your trailer, then air up the bags until the front bumper is at the level necessary. My Airbags can handle a bit over 100 lbs of pressure. I normally have to use 85/90 lbs to get level with my F250/31KFW.
Just a couple comments, it's your setup so do as you want, but #1 airbags DO NOT add payload, but actually subtract the weight of the system from the payload. Yes they will transfer a small amount of weight to tv front end, but don't help on the rear & #2 if your having to run 85-90 lbs in the bags you either need more truck or less rv.
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Old 03-11-2019, 05:45 AM   #17
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Just a couple comments, it's your setup so do as you want, but #1 airbags DO NOT add payload, but actually subtract the weight of the system from the payload. Yes they will transfer a small amount of weight to tv front end, but don't help on the rear & #2 if your having to run 85-90 lbs in the bags you either need more truck or less rv.
Right on!! I don't have bags yet but, everything I've read is around 30 pounds just to take the bounce out of the set-up. 85psi seems excessive. I've read the F250 F350 debate several times and it seems the F250 is on odd territory. If you need the F250 may as well get the 350, the cost difference is negligible.
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