crowded colorado

[sourdough]

It appears you are a very literal person and can't catch an off the cuff remark. No, people aren't being shot in campgrounds and the OP never said that. Campgrounds are safe and you don't have to be armed if you don't want to be. I dare say that 99% of the members here have never encountered a shooting in a campground. We're as safe as the Yukon or BC if that's what you're concerned about and myself, and everyone I know, has a great time camping as well. Your concern should be laid to rest.

[denverpilot]

As a native, there's a lot of misconceptions in this thread.

Colorado has suffered under a large influx of people fleeing the high prices of (taxes and housing in) California and many other States.

More specifically they move mostly to Denver and less so to the Front Range. These people take a few years to figure out that the rest of Colorado even exists, sometimes, and they think they're in the "great outdoors" in Denver, 30 miles from the foothills.

The downside to all of this intrastate immigration, was that tract housing, that to any native looks like a cardboard shoebox FEMA camp (ha!), went up like wildfire in the late 90s and early 2000s all around the metro in what were then the suburbs. If there was open land a developer was building on it. Junk houses.

But... to the average Californian fleeing that State's high cost of living, they could either sell the California house (if they were that lucky) and literally pocket half of it and buy a bigger and nicer tract home here than they could possibly ever afford in California, or even convert from being lifelong renters in CA to homeowners here.

So areas like Highlands Ranch and Lone Tree and all of Douglas county and Broomfield City and County, Louisville, and Aurora all grew massively nearly overnight.

The flood of interstate immigrants and refugees from expensive places to live continues to this day, a decade or more later.

Both Interstate highways have suffered massive widening projects that snarled traffic for years on each and didn't really keep up with the growth.

The new airport turned out to be a godsend even though natives knew at the time it was built that it was a massively corrupt boondoggle. Population growth came at the right time for that place.

Housing now is in a weird non-recovery until very recently on large scale new construction. After the housing crisis, many construction companies had tossed all their workers out, and when they looked around to resume building they didn't find much in the way of skilled labor.

Ironically the lack of building helped create this. Housing prices have soared to astronomical levels, because not enough new housing was being built. Rents climbed along with the shortage and a lot of the badly needed blue collar folks moved away.

(This also had a drastic change in our politics, but we'll mention that in passing and leave it at that. The State switched from fierce self-reliance to needy, over about five years time.)

Then pot thing came along, but it hasn't had nearly the macro effect that simple economic and mass population migration has. Yes, it's brought some deadbeats, and a bunch of dispensaries next to fast food, liquor stores, and pawn shops, in every other strip mall. But really the issues are much bigger than just pot.

If anything pot in poorer neighborhoods is serving as a release of tension overall -- overcrowding and housing problems and high prices abound in weaker economic neighborhoods. But the areas that were truly blighted and dangerous mostly disappeared as people flooded in and needed to live somewhere.

Natives, have moved to the "ex-burbs" in large numbers, such as myself -- living 45 minutes out of town on the eastern plains on four acres -- that's still "Colorado" to me.

Oil and gas bumped some cities and towns for a while. That's played out and gone bust, just like all the other times it has here. A few more well heads. Some drilling. Some work. But not the boom still.

So... how does this all relate to camping? I'll tell ya!

Campsites have ALWAYS been at a premium during holiday weekends. Been that way since I was a kid. Won't ever change. But they were deserted and wonderful on weekdays when I was a kid. As I got older they got a little more full during the week but never more than half full at most. State did a nice job making quite a few spaces available at State Parks, Forest Service has lots of campgrounds in the mountains, and the occasional KOA and similar thrown in. They'd fill during "tourist seasons" but any other time, just go and you'd get a spot.

Then this big macro boom of people came and hasn't stopped yet.

No new campsites built. So the State expanded as many as they could. Added electrical at many. Nicer amenities.

They started filling up on weekends. Anything close to the Front Range was busy. Reservation system set up. More people. Longer book-ahead dates. Now it's common to see popular dates fully reserved half a year in advance in nicer parks. The busier the weekend the further away the full campgrounds extend away from the Front Range. This May for the holiday week, we went far far away to State Forest State Park (lovely by the way), and it was full. Reservations made a couple of months in advance. Filled not long after.

Weekdays in summer break for school, get away from town, a couple weeks in advance tops. In town the two State Parks are always full now in weekends. Month or more advance booking. School season, better. But weather goes cold.

It's just overpopulation. We are happy folks are camping when they've moved here. That's great. But it's straining everything.

Outside the metro Denver area, much much better. Some reasonable growth but not like the Front Range.

[denverpilot]

Oh by the way, natives won't have much trouble if there's crime in campgrounds. We were always armed and probably always will be. Ha. Especially in the backcountry. We didn't flaunt it much for the tourists but we always were.

I haven't really seen any campgrounds other than the permanent style live in ones in the metro itself get too "seedy" but yeah, there's scattered pockets of migrants of all sorts who are living in the smaller town campsites too. Most just need a place to live and aren't particularly dangerous as long as you keep Bubba from falling in his fire pit after a six pack on Friday night. And even that's pretty rare still.

We do see squatter style campers just popping down on private property along roads in the mountains and geniuses who've started forest fires and the like. They're not in the pay campgrounds. They can't afford it. They drag a 1970s camper from wherever so they can chase their dream of buying pot and then run out of money and find they can't get hired at a large percentage of businesses. They go broke and usually tuck tail and go home eventually. Out of pot money and gas money. They leave trash in national forest lands and private property and make some contained but ugly messes.

By and large pay campsites are still pay campsites with folks who just want to enjoy camping. They have a little more human silliness when they're full like any campsite, but crime isn't up considerably in them, and when booked ahead, still beautiful places to park one's house for a few days and hike or fish or head into mountain towns for a rafting tour or whatever floats your boat.

I wouldn't hesitate to book and stay here somewhere outside of the metro at all if I weren't from here. It's fine. Just get reservations in early for holiday and prime summer weekends.

We just aren't as empty as we once were. No point in me complaining about it either, it's just a natural migration to escape other places.

Economy is pretty good too, all things considered.

They even paved the last road that wasn't to my house in the boonies. Wasn't a good deal at $2.3M for four mikes of two-lane, and nine months to complete start to finish, but civilization keeps creeping out toward us.

[Steve S]

Originally Posted by sourdough

It appears you are a very literal person and can't catch an off the cuff remark. No, people aren't being shot in campgrounds and the OP never said that. Campgrounds are safe and you don't have to be armed if you don't want to be. I dare say that 99% of the members here have never encountered a shooting in a campground. We're as safe as the Yukon or BC if that's what you're concerned about and myself, and everyone I know, has a great time camping as well. Your concern should be laid to rest.

I'm just going by all the posts here. It sounds like there's a lot of druggies in the campgrounds. Living there, over crowding etc.
From what I've been reading there's a lot of problems going on in the area and most of it is from population growth.

[BOWWOW]

Originally Posted by Steve S

That doesn't sound like fun camping at all Why would there be shootings at campgrounds

I said nothing about shootings in campgrounds.
I mentioned towns. It seems as though there is at least 1 shooting along the front range here in Colorado daily.

Don't worry I think your out of range. LOL!

[CaptnJohn]

It is very rare to hear of a shooting in a CG anywhere. Read the CG national news sites and you will see any assault is very rare but not quite as rare as a few decades ago. A CG is probably much more safe than any but the seediest hotel/motel that rents by the hour. The reason I carry in a CG is because I carry everywhere legal to do so and try to avoid places it is not legal. OP could be parked beside me for a month and share several campfires and never have a hint I'm armed.

[m&m]

Thanks to every one on the post, great news. Currently live in Fl. Will be visiting Co next year. Sons co. moved him out there. Your parks sound a lot safer than ours !
Last drive out to visit him(no RV) I found many great people, good food, fresh markets and fresh air. I left with a great impression of the people of Co.
Looking forward to taking the RV out there. Thanks again. I will leave after a few months,

[Steve S]

Originally Posted by BOWWOW

I said nothing about shootings in campgrounds.
I mentioned towns. It seems as though there is at least 1 shooting along the front range here in Colorado daily.

Don't worry I think your out of range. LOL!

Either way it doesn't sound like a great place to live! lol! From what others have said about packing a gun while camping makes me wonder if you have razor wire fences and windows covered in mesh at home.
I was in Detroit 2 weeks ago and the run down and empty houses being used as crack shacks was just amazing!
It's pretty sad to see the way the States has really gone downhill over the yrs since Japan, China and Korea has taken over the car industry which America used to own and was proud of at one time.

[gearhead]

To quote Ross Perot.."the giant sucking sound" of jobs leaving.
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q...f+jobs+leaving

[Mandolin]

We've seen a fairly similar thing in the Pacific Northwest - camping within, say, 3 hours of a major metro is jampacked. To get away from that we need to travel further out, go on weekdays, etc. A lot of people have chosen to come west.

Population increase, 1980-2015:
Oregon - 61% (remarkable because we have only 3 cities with a population of over 100,000)
Washington - 70%
California - 60% (remarkable since the current population is 38.8 million)
Colorado - 80% (an unsustainable growth rate)

Other states have grown, particularly states with a strong job market or some of the energy boom states (although there is a corresponding bust going on now).

[JRTJH]

1971-1974, we lived in Denver, I was assigned to Lowry AFB. We had the Jayco 20' trailer and a Dodge 3/4 ton truck. We were "in the mountains" almost every weekend from March through November. Back then, it was possible to pull a trailer "up to the top of Lookout Mountain" on Friday afternoon, have supper at the Robin's Nest, drink a "few too many" and sleep in the trailer in the parking lot of the Buffalo Bill Museum. Next morning, tow down the mountain to Golden, take the Coor's tour and "sleep it off" in their parking lot. Then, later on Saturday afternoon, head west, toward Central City on Hwy 6, pull off almost anywhere there was a gravel road, find a "flat spot" and set up camp. Hardly ever saw anyone, never had any problems finding "space to camp' and never had reservations.

Times have changed dramatically. Partly, I suppose, because of the population growth, partly because more people have the means to afford an RV, partly because of the desire to "escape the city to distress" and partly because most of us really "long for some quiet time"..... Gone are the days of being able to do that kind of camping in Colorado. Now, without weeks (sometimes months) of prior planning, you can forget finding any place to camp within "driving range of Denver".

Heck, Cherry Creek Reservoir "used to be" an open range wilderness" with no formal campground. Go out there, find a spot, set up camp and start rabbit hunting for supper. That was 15 minutes from Aurora. Won't be doing that anywhere around Denver these days. We tried to get reservations at Cherry Creek last year when we made our "out west trip". All the campsites were reserved and the only available openings weren't until sometime in September, after school started, and then, the weekends were reserved, so we could only get a "weekday reservation".....

Busy, BUSY, BUSY !!!

[koko]

Ahhh! WYOMING!

[2Savages]

Originally Posted by BOWWOW

WOW! So it's just not me seeing this. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there some form of legal pot in 1 or 2 other states like Washington? If so are there similar cases there? I realize that the recreational form of pot sales is the major problem. Yes crime is up, it's an all cash business, the federal government wont back the store owners at the banks. I really like the weather in Colorado but, 100,000 citizens are moving here every year, and a good amount for the wrong reasons. I'm on the west side but you can see it even in small towns all over the state. Once again we are looking at a place in Costa Rica. Future Expat, maybe.

Seattle Washington isn't fairing very well with the new pot laws and homeless issue. When we hear statistical reports, it's usually about Colorado, such as the maternity wards are delivering babies with THC in them at birth. The doctor asked the mother if she knew it was harmful to her child and her reply was "Its Legal". The I-5 corridor is full of homeless tent communities and disgusting RVs, that are rented out by slum lords. They are towed to a location and have to be towed out of them. No regular towing company wants to be involved with towing RV, because to dismantle an RV it would need to be towed to a site North of Seattle or 100 miles south for environmental purposes.

[Desert185]

Originally Posted by 2Savages

Seattle Washington isn't fairing very well with the new pot laws and homeless issue. When we hear statistical reports, it's usually about Colorado, such as the maternity wards are delivering babies with THC in them at birth. The doctor asked the mother if she knew it was harmful to her child and her reply was "Its Legal". The I-5 corridor is full of homeless tent communities and disgusting RVs, that are rented out by slum lords. They are towed to a location and have to be towed out of them. No regular towing company wants to be involved with towing RV, because to dismantle an RV it would need to be towed to a site North of Seattle or 100 miles south for environmental purposes.

How progressive.

[Richard Noble]

Please just send your money to Colorado and stay home. Stats I look at show that, on a per capita basis, there has been little or no increase in crime due to pot.

[gkainz]

Originally Posted by Richard Noble

Please just send your money to Colorado and stay home. Stats I look at show that, on a per capita basis, there has been little or no increase in crime due to pot.

2 friends of mine in law enforcement beg to differ with you.

[bartbill]

That is not the story I am getting from Forest Service folks on the Front Range. The forest is full of stoners and indigents and other bumbs.

[BOWWOW]

Originally Posted by koko

Ahhh! WYOMING!

Ahh, the Snowy Range is only 3 hours from Denver. See you soon LOL.
Just kidding I am selling my rig before the used RV market floods.

[BOWWOW]

Originally Posted by bartbill

That is not the story I am getting from Forest Service folks on the Front Range. The forest is full of stoners and indigents and other bumbs.

So true, I'm sure Cedaredge has no increase but all along the front range there is a very noticeable increase, Especially in the major cities along I-25.

It's Nov 13th and we have only had 1 night with a light frost. The homeless stoners are going to freak on out when that first big blizzard dumps 3 feet of white utopia on there tarp towns.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by BOWWOW

So true, I'm sure Cedaredge has no increase but all along the front range there is a very noticeable increase, Especially in the major cities along I-25.

It's Nov 13th and we have only had 1 night with a light frost. The homeless stoners are going to freak on out when that first big blizzard dumps 3 feet of white utopia on there tarp towns.

We can only hope that Darwin works his magic