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Old 01-06-2019, 08:37 AM   #41
SkiSmuggs
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Originally Posted by 77cruiser View Post
I've ran across a few places that sold a premium diesel fuel, don't know if that's the same as top tier.
No, but it may be closer to it than standard ULSD. Top Tier also includes filtering to prevent water in the fuel. Since Top Tier diesel is just getting started, it is rare, so a great additive like Opti-Lube (top rated) improves cetane, lubricity, water separation, fuel system cleaning. Be aware that some additives actually reduce lubricity, so just because it is on the shelf and everybody uses it, doesn't mean it is good for your truck.
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Old 01-06-2019, 08:39 AM   #42
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Yes, follow a monthly schedule of dumping the water separator, and run a good additive to deal with any water that maybe in fuel. Buy from stations that go through lots of diesel, so sediment, water etc tend to be a non-issue.

On 2 occasions, I have pulled into shell stations because they advertised diesel. I pulled in, only to see it was Bio. Right on the pump it says "this is not a shell product" Who know where it's from? I can't put that in my truck.

When I see Diesel at a cheap price, I know it's Bio. I steer clear (no pun). I haven't put in the time to research it enough. I don't know the "standards" etc. To me its like generic drugs, there's just enough difference to work, but it doesn't always work.

I just have too much invested in the truck or future trucks not to give it the best care I can, which includes fuel.

Just random thoughts.
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Old 01-06-2019, 09:06 AM   #43
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I just purchased a new 2018 GMC Sierra 3500 Denali HD with the Duramax Turbo Diesel engine (yay!) but in reading the Duramax Diesel Supplement, it says GM recommends TopTier diesel fuel, but in going to that web site, I can't find many stations near me which offer this.

It does say that I should use fuel with no more than 15 ppm sulfur, but how do I find which stations have satisfactory diesel fuel?

Can I assume that stations like Chevron, Texaco, Valero, Flying J, T/A, etc. will be good enough?

Is this just "GM being GM" and really any commercially-available diesel fuel will work?

Thanks for your input.
Some have said that "Top Tier" is a brand - which is not true. It's a "certification" of sorts, and only some companies, and even at that - only some locations have "Top Tier" fuel or diesel.

In my area - the Costco has Top Tier diesel, and very little else. So - you have to check places like that (on the company's website), to see what location(s) have Top Tier gas/diesel.

In lieu of that - go with a "brand name". Yeah - it'll cost you more, but will probably save you in the long run. Locally, we have a lot of convenience stores named "Quik Trip". They have Top Tier gas - but DON'T have Top Tier diesel. I filled up my '17 2500HD Duramax a bit over a year ago at a local one, and two days later my truck was dead. The diesel had gelled. A trip just before where temps went into single digits (7-9F) - no problem. But, one fill up at a place like Quik Trip, and 2 days later, and temps that were in the 10-15F range - gelled diesel. Since it was a warm winter, it was STRONGLY rumored that the fuel companies delayed putting in the winterization chemicals. That, on top of the fact that those places don't get all of the diesel out of their tanks on a regular basis - so you have no idea how much untreated diesel was in the tank when they filled up - winterized or not.

So, despite the fact that the manual says "no additives" (oh, they'll let you use GM's additive...), you really need some anti-gel additive in the diesel if the temp in your location regularly gets down below freezing or so.

What you want to do is to fill up at places that really go THROUGH the diesel. That means its pretty fresh, and when the formulation changes, you'll get the changes in a reasonable timeframe. You might look for some "area" companies that have those unattended stations (some may require membership - but most don't). They seem very busy, and the diesel I've gotten through them (mostly during winter), seems just fine to use. Semis regularly fill up at those places too.

As far as I know - anyone selling diesel along the road is selling 15ppm sulfer diesel. It's a requirement. You'll see at truck stops too. At this point, the only other "likely" place you'll get diesel that won't work would be filling up diesel from your farm's tank, and you get agricultural/tractor diesel. So, anyplace you fill up will have 15ppm sulfer diesel. Just check the tank, they're all labeled that I've seen. No label - go down the road. Your Duramax WILL choke on the improper diesel (<sarcasm on> thank you very much computerization </sarcasm off>).

Oh - and be careful of the DEF fluid you buy too. If it's too old, you may get the dreaded bad DEF fluid warning, and you've got about 50 miles to get it fixed before the vehicle shuts down, and that's with reduced engine output. I've used Blue DEF, and the Walmart "Supertech" DEF fluid. I always try to go to a Walmart that's in a "diesel" area, so the stock gets turned over. Areas around farming/ranching, etc.

I'd suggest going to www.duramaxforum.com - do some reading, and ask your questions there. There are a LOT of highly competent diesel techs on that forum, along with lots of info and results of studies/tests (like diesel additives) to view. I've gleaned a lot of info for my truck from there.

Now - if I could just figure out how to get ALL the old oil out of the engine on engine changes on that puppy...
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Old 01-06-2019, 09:07 AM   #44
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Chevron and Costco diesel are labeled "top tier" at the pump. Been using it in my Duramax (2016) for 38000 miles with no problems.
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Old 01-06-2019, 09:12 AM   #45
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Chevron and Costco diesel are labeled "top tier" at the pump. Been using it in my Duramax (2016) for 38000 miles with no problems.
Be aware - not ALL Costco's have Top Tier. Check their website https://www.costco.com/gasoline-diesel.html. I don't fill up at Chevrons, but they might not all be Top Tier either.

And - just because a place has Top Tier gas DOES NOT mean they have Top Tier diesel.
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Old 01-06-2019, 09:15 AM   #46
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I think - generally speaking - the trick is using a "better" quality diesel, and at a place that really goes through it so you get fresh diesel. Good fuel stations - truck stops. Also - don't let it sit in your tank a long time. KEEP YOUR TANK FULL WHEN ITS SITTING FOR PERIODS OF TIME!!! Why do aircraft keep their fuel tanks full when sitting? Because they get condensation inside the tank if they aren't full, and water/fuel don't mix. You don't want your diesel to get a slug of water in it. Fuel floats on top of water, and your fuel pump is at the bottom of the tank.

While my truck is mainly for towing my trailer, I still go out once or twice a week, every week, and drive 30-40 miles minimum. Also put it 4H/4L occasionally just to keep the lubrication moving around...
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Old 01-06-2019, 09:18 AM   #47
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Diesel fuel is not always made by the brand that sells it, nor is gasoline. I talked to a tanker driver who left an Irving station and went to a Mobil station. He said Irving refines it and supplies it as Mobil has no refining plants in New England. He said there are no additive added at either location, it is just what he delivers. Gas is similar for the base product, but each station has the brand name additive package.
Top Tier gasoline has a real advantage over non-TT as in has a lot more detergents, etc. Tests have shown better mileage and cleaner engine parts and may be worth any small extra cost in both fuel and maintenance savings according to independent studies.
It is the engine manufacturers who asked for the Top Tier fuels for better performance, mileage and longevity.
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Old 01-06-2019, 09:21 AM   #48
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Ok Diesel dyed red is for off road, No tax number. 1 Fuel oil is kero. Or use to be.Number 2 diesel is the same as home heating oil. In the late 1980 alot of truck stops were selling # 2 home heating oil and beating the tax. Thus the red dye was put in to stop beating the tax.Detroit Diesels used to love Kero/ #1 diesel. You could get a nice blue flame come out both stacks.Detroit actualy said to burn #1 diesel.Nj Transit use to use only # 1 fuel. I delivered enough of Diesel and Gasoline to fill a Stadium.
X2 On #1 and Detroit. My old 318 would smoke the tires empty and if I got into it too hard loaded it would spin the rims. Tried #1 in my '94 Cummins once and it warmed up much quicker in the morning but the cost wasn't worth the comfort.
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Old 01-06-2019, 09:46 AM   #49
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Well, I am cover a dozen states every year. I purchase over 21,000 gallons of diesel every year for my commercial needs. There is no such industry standard thing as "Top Tier" diesel. There are some outlets that will treat their diesel with something like Schaeffer's additive and call it "premium" diesel. Some station that says "top tier' at the pump, make sure it is a pump that is not also one that sells gas and diesel at the same pump.

And it is true, the diesel at the pump has nothing to do with the station selling it. All stations within a geographical area get the majority of their fuel from the fuel terminals in that area. Those fuel terminals will get their fuel thru the pipeline from a variety of refineries. A local station may specify any additives they want in the fuel they get, but that is about all they have control over. The sign on the station has nothing to do with who actually refined the fuel. I personally tanked fuel in the past. Lot's of misconceptions by the public.

I digress, a quick search found "top tier" diesel, but nothing about it that rally means much.

Increased Lubricity? Most diesel has than now since the majority of diesel being sold has biodiesel in it. A 2% blend of biodiesel raises lubricity to pre-ULSD levels. Better than anything off the shelf.

Better filtration? I know of no diesel fuel pumps that do not also have water and particulate filtration at the pump. They have for decades.

Irregardless, the number of outlets that are participating are extremely scarce. I view the top tier diesel thing just like the top tier gas thing. Pure marketing. None of my GM gasoline engines have gotten, knowingly, top tier gas and even my 2006 Cadillac is still in great shape and a keeper. The best thing in terms of diesel is what has been mentioned... buy at high volume outlets where the turnover of stored diesel is frequent.
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Old 01-06-2019, 09:57 AM   #50
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Well, I am cover a dozen states every year. I purchase over 21,000 gallons of diesel every year for my commercial needs. There is no such industry standard thing as "Top Tier" diesel. There are some outlets that will treat their diesel with something like Schaeffer's additive and call it "premium" diesel.

And it is true, the diesel at the pump has nothing to do with the station selling it. All stations within a geographical area get the majority of their fuel from the fuel terminals in that area. Those fuel terminals will get their fuel thru the pipeline from a variety of refineries. A local station may specify any additives they want in the fuel they get, but that is about all they have control over. The sign on the station has nothing to do with who actually refined the fuel. I personally tanked fuel in the past. Lot's of misconceptions by the public.

https://www.toptiergas.com/toptier_diesel_fuel/
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Old 01-06-2019, 10:06 AM   #51
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Well, I am cover a dozen states every year. I purchase over 21,000 gallons of diesel every year for my commercial needs. There is no such industry standard thing as "Top Tier" diesel. There are some outlets that will treat their diesel with something like Schaeffer's additive and call it "premium" diesel.

And it is true, the diesel at the pump has nothing to do with the station selling it. All stations within a geographical area get the majority of their fuel from the fuel terminals in that area. Those fuel terminals will get their fuel thru the pipeline from a variety of refineries. A local station may specify any additives they want in the fuel they get, but that is about all they have control over. The sign on the station has nothing to do with who actually refined the fuel. I personally tanked fuel in the past. Lot's of misconceptions by the public.
Plus ALL those refineries & terminals have VERY strict requirements for ALL their fuels, but once it's unloaded at at station they have no control over what happens, unfortunately the refiner will still be to blame if someone gets bad fuel.
As I've said I've had 2 diesel GMC trucks with over 300k miles between them & have never had to open the fuel filter water drain. If I did get the "water in fuel" warning I wouldn't drain it I'd replace the filter. The fuel filter on mine has a % number to change interval, just like the oil, to which I go by to change when it's down to about 10%, same as oil changes, so far no issue with either.
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Old 01-06-2019, 10:12 AM   #52
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Let's compare the "quality" of diesel at four stations:

First, Top Tier diesel at a "mom and pop" station that's been in the tank since July (they don't sell much diesel)

Second, ULS diesel (not bio fuel) that's at the station across the street. It's been in the tank since September (they sell more than mom and pop, but not by a lot)

Third, Top Tier diesel at another station that does sell more diesel, but there's a diesel delivery truck filling the tank as you drive up. (adding fuel to the existing fuel stirs up the sediment in the station's storage tanks)

Fourth, 10% bio-diesel at a reputable truck stop that's been in the tank since 2 days ago, all the tank sediment has settled to the bottom of the tank, the fuel is fresh and there's no question of water content in their fuel.

Which would you choose? Why ??

The point I'm making is that there's no "constant" in where to select fuel and just because "labeling" is present, that doesn't mean fuel at that station is "better/best" of the available selections.... YMMV
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Old 01-06-2019, 11:59 AM   #53
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Ford manual and badge states B20 is OK. It is cheaper as we subsidize the farmers for the crops that make the 'bio'. I try to avoid it when possible, therefore avoid Walmart/Murphy. Bio is supposed to have the pump labeled but guessing many or most do not. When towing I add Ford additive most of the time.
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Old 01-06-2019, 12:27 PM   #54
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list is old so there may be more by now. Top Tier retailers include 76, Aloha Petroleum, Amoco, ARCO, Beacon, BP, Break Time, Cenex, Chevron, CITGO, Conoco, Co-op, Costco, CountryMark, Diamond Shamrock, Entec, Esso, Express, Exxon, Holiday, Kwik Star Stores, Kwik Trip, Mahalo, MFA, Mobil, Ohana Fuels, Petro-Canada, Phillips 66, PUMA, QT, Quik Trip, Road ...Aug 22, 2016
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Old 01-06-2019, 12:31 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by larryflew View Post
list is old so there may be more by now. Top Tier retailers include 76, Aloha Petroleum, Amoco, ARCO, Beacon, BP, Break Time, Cenex, Chevron, CITGO, Conoco, Co-op, Costco, CountryMark, Diamond Shamrock, Entec, Esso, Express, Exxon, Holiday, Kwik Star Stores, Kwik Trip, Mahalo, MFA, Mobil, Ohana Fuels, Petro-Canada, Phillips 66, PUMA, QT, Quik Trip, Road ...Aug 22, 2016

Where do you get this information? As was said before, just because a station is listed as providing top-tier gas doesn't mean they provide top-tier diesel.
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Old 01-06-2019, 01:18 PM   #56
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list is old so there may be more by now. Top Tier retailers include 76, Aloha Petroleum, Amoco, ARCO, BeaconpriDyak Time, Cenex, Chevron, CITGO, Conoco, Co-op, Costco, CountryMark, Diamond Shamrock, Entec, Esso, Express, Exxon, Holiday, Kwik Star Stores, Kwik Trip, Mahalo, MFA, Mobil, Ohana Fuels, Petro-Canada, Phillips 66, PUMA, QT, Quik Trip, Road ...Aug 22, 2016
That list must be a lot older than 2016!! I went to work for Diamond Shamrock in 1979, it became Ultrmar Diamond Shamrock, then to Valero in the late 90' s or early 2000' s. The only Diamond Shamrock stations Valero has still in existence (very few) are the very very low volume privately owned convenience stores, which are the ones you may not want to buy fuel from.
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Old 01-06-2019, 02:15 PM   #57
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Yeah that list has to be old. I haven't seen a Diamond Shamrock in a very long time.
I've been burning some Conoco lately, from a regional grocery store (Brookshire Bros.). No issues.
I've got an issue with Shell, via Motiva (Saudi), and have been on a personal boycott. DW says: "you think it makes a difference to them?" No, but it does to me.
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Old 01-06-2019, 02:37 PM   #58
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"DW says: "you think it makes a difference to them?" No, but it does to me." Good point, Gearhead!
It is all about self-respect. Jane Fonda movies? Buy American? Shell oil? Exxon oil? Nissan pickup? I could go on and on. If you have a beef with a person or product then don't buy into it. I'm not trying to be political, I'm trying to make a point that we need to show support for the people and products that we deem positive to our way of life. Self-respect will follow.
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Old 01-07-2019, 05:50 AM   #59
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Top Tier is a standard, not a brand and it was requested by automobile manufacturers to solve problems they saw that were being caused by fuel and to help them meet fuel mileage requirements. While the gas Top Tier standard has been around for several years, it wasn't until 2017 that Top Tier diesel standards were released. The implementation has been slow because it requires changes at the station as well as in the refining or blending process. The link below indicates that TT gas is worth paying for.
https://www.consumerreports.org/car-...h-extra-price/

https://www.toptiergas.com/licensed-brands/

https://www.toptiergas.com/diesel-licensed-brands/
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Old 01-08-2019, 09:02 AM   #60
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Quite a discussion here...
My first diesel was a 99 Dodge Ram Cummins. I am currently on my third Ford SuperDuty. In all this time I have never had water separator issues nor have I ever used additives. I live in the NE so I end up with the winter blends and I try to buy at stations with high volume sales which also tend to be the low priced places fulfilling supply/demand economic laws. Maybe I've just been lucky but I really don't see the need to over Analise this. As to the pricing observations, I agree that it's sad to see the gas price drop faster than the diesel prices. I'm wondering if that is a result of a booming economy and just more goods being shipped via trucks. It seems to me the roads are loaded with semis and every trucking firm I pass on the highway has a large banner that they are hiring drivers. The law of supply and demand is not a political or economic trick, it is a natural law that always applies in the end.
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