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Old 06-20-2014, 04:26 PM   #21
therink
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I also am a firm believer that mass produced assembly line rv manufacturers such as Keystone place many electrical and plumbing fittings in an general location based on material on hand at the moment. It is pretty lame but a reality in the rv business.
If you are looking for your waste tank valves, follow the drain line into the belly to centerline and you will find them. Don't be afraid to remove a square of belly material. You can get replacement pieces to patch it from most vinyl graphics sign shop. That's what I did and sealed it with gorilla tape. Now I have an access hatch for the next time I have to service the valves. No biggie.
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Old 06-20-2014, 05:22 PM   #22
JRTJH
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When I was going through the assembly line, as the frame was being turned over (after the axles, coroplast, gas line, etc were installed), before the tanks were placed on the rails and crossmembers, a wiring bundle was laid down the middle of the frame. It looked like it weighed about 50-75 lbs and was "generally" stretched, sorted and laid with certain parts in specific places.

I asked the question, "Does each model have its own wiring harness?" and was given the answer, "No, we use a general type bundle for a number of models. We adapt where needed to complete the wiring for specific trailers."

So, there isn't a "model specific" wiring harness that Keystone could "diagram" and send to owners as a "schematic" because many models may use the same "general bundle" but then it's customized to the particular build.

I'd guess (just my opinion) that it would take a computer genius, a couple of people for each brand name and an engineer to keep up with the year to year changes, the "adaptions" for specific models and the time/effort to maintain accuracy so they aren't sending out the "wrong sheet" when a customer with a 7 year old model calls (right after a customer with a brand new model) and the wrong one gets slipped into the envelope...

It takes time and effort to maintain that service, the service costs a substantial amount of money. They have been "doing it without providing schematics" since they opened the doors in 1996. Changing their offerings hasn't happened in the past 18 years, it isn't likely to happen in the foreseeable future. Why? Because there's no benefit to Keystone to change their policy.

Sure, it would be nice, but I don't see Keystone suddenly deciding to pay 4 or 5 people in a central office and a couple of people in each of the brand offices a substantial salary to compile, record, reproduce, sort and mail schematics to owners who would like the information. They don't even do that for dealerships who NEED the information.

I don't think it's a matter of releasing any "trade secrets" rather it's a matter of cost to provide the service and the lack of a corporate vision that feels the need to provide the service to improve corporate profitability. Yup, it's all driven by profit.
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Old 06-20-2014, 06:14 PM   #23
jtyphoid
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Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
Yup, it's all driven by profit.
True dat!

I wish it were like the automobile industry, where you can get shop manuals and electrical schematics, but the RV industry just doesn't have the volume and the majority of the customers won't pay the extra cost.
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Old 06-20-2014, 08:08 PM   #24
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It's like SAD said, just like your home...they don't use schematics...just run the wires where they run them to get the job done. I think it is just as true at most other RV makers.
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Old 06-21-2014, 09:03 AM   #25
webslave
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Originally Posted by jtyphoid View Post
True dat!

I wish it were like the automobile industry, where you can get shop manuals and electrical schematics, but the RV industry just doesn't have the volume and the majority of the customers won't pay the extra cost.
One thing you have to remember in the auto industry is that they are mass produced on assembly lines. Each "Focus" or "Journey" gets the same frame, same wiring harness same attachment points for hundreds of thousands of vehicles. Scale of volume almost mandates "standardized" part and harnesses. A base Journey has the exact same wiring harness as one that is loaded with options. Those options that don't exist in the base unit still have, for example, the plugs for fog lights or the trailer wiring harness; there just isn't anything plugged into them. That wiring harness is also used on all the vehicles built on that "chassis platform".

The RV industry does not have the benefit of "volume" to make standard harnesses or schematics of any benefit to them or anyone else based on the cost of developing and maintaining them. As another poster said, even some car companies don't...I had an Austin Healey and once inquired about an electrical schematic (I was having a tach problem) and the guy I asked (ex-British embassy head mechanic) just laughed at me. The story about running out of one color and just splicing in whatever color was laying around is spot on. RVs are the same. The builders know where stuff is supposed to be mounted and they try to come close, but, getting the wiring or plumbing to those devices is a "whatever works" type of thing. If they've got a shorter than needed piece of wire, that wire may make a detour to another spot that is "close" to what is desired. If something is in the way, that run of wire, again, may make a detour.

We all wish that it weren't so, but, unless a company makes just a handful of different models and has been making those same models for many years (like Airstream) then you wont' be finding schematics for plumbing or electrics. Some companies don't even have blueprints for the frames and walls...they are done with jigs so there aren't blueprints required; just load up the jig, spot weld, pressure glue the walls, inside and out, and you're done. No hand layup any longer like the old days.
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Old 06-21-2014, 08:25 PM   #26
dtas
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With every rv that I've bought, I've tried to get a build sheet and schematic for the wiring (12v and 120v), plumbing (fresh water and gray and black tank drains) and lp gas lines.
I only manufacture to give them was Fleetwood, for our Tioga SL. Fleetwood didn't question, just sent me a packet with all that I asked for. Those schematics were sure handy when doing mods.
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