Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone Tech Forums > General RV Issues
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 03-10-2023, 04:32 PM   #1
Camperklahowya
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: GIG HARBOR
Posts: 25
Lithium charging not great

Hi All,
Trying to figure out why charging performance is so poor.

New Passport 221BHWE purchased last year. factory installed 200i solar panel with Victron controller, dealer installed two 100ah Dragonfly batteries.

If I remove the batteries and charge with my charger, they hit 13.6 overnight, through standard 110 outlet.
When I charge by plugging my RV into a 110 outlet, it's barely anything. For example plugged in at 5:30pm, battery at 13.22. Checked again the following morning at 6:30am it was at 13.24. Two more days and it's now at 13.3. Mind you solar is also adding to this charge.

With my generator running on propane @ 3,200 watts using 30amp plug I get barely a bump after 2-3 hours at full power.

It's been like this since I got it. Thoughts?
thanks
Camperklahowya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2023, 04:48 PM   #2
chuckster57
Site Team
 
chuckster57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,234
How many amps are being produced?
__________________

2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.

Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
chuckster57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2023, 04:54 PM   #3
jasin1
Senior Member
 
jasin1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Upper Chesapeake Bay
Posts: 4,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camperklahowya View Post
Hi All,
Trying to figure out why charging performance is so poor.

New Passport 221BHWE purchased last year. factory installed 200i solar panel with Victron controller, dealer installed two 100ah Dragonfly batteries.

If I remove the batteries and charge with my charger, they hit 13.6 overnight, through standard 110 outlet.
When I charge by plugging my RV into a 110 outlet, it's barely anything. For example plugged in at 5:30pm, battery at 13.22. Checked again the following morning at 6:30am it was at 13.24. Two more days and it's now at 13.3. Mind you solar is also adding to this charge.

With my generator running on propane @ 3,200 watts using 30amp plug I get barely a bump after 2-3 hours at full power.

It's been like this since I got it. Thoughts?
thanks
what happens if you disconnect the batteries at the trailer after it’s been charging and let them sit for a little bit..do they come up? it sounds like there is a load being drawn on the batteries from in·command or inverter( even when inverter power switch is off) or something that won’t allow it to show full charge when it actually is.
when you take the fully charged battery..13.6 and hook it back up what does it show after a few min

i’m not a battery expert and there are many battery gurus on the site but just a thought
__________________
2020 Cougar 315 RLS
2020 Ram 3500 6.7HO 4.10 Dually Aisin
jasin1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2023, 05:04 PM   #4
Camperklahowya
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: GIG HARBOR
Posts: 25
When I installed the 13.6 batteries, next morning they were at 13.32 (no shore power)

on the victron app, there is zero load output.

Shore power at home 110/15amp plug.
here is the generator info, I run off propane.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2778.jpg
Views:	97
Size:	365.4 KB
ID:	43245  
Camperklahowya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2023, 05:27 PM   #5
NH_Bulldog
Senior Member
 
NH_Bulldog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Henniker
Posts: 2,011
If you have a 12v refrigerator, is it on and drawing power?

The converter charges the batteries at a high rate if they are substantially discharged. This goes up to about 80% or so and then the converter drops down into maintenance mode until batteries reach 100% charge. Depending on parasitic load such as the 12v refrigerator running, it can extend the time it takes the batteries reach 100%.

Plugging the shore power cord into a power outlet or generator both uses the converter to charge the battery. If they charge while removed from the trailer, I would look at the converter. I would check converter output, I would check the model number of the converter to be sure it is capable of charging 2 lithium batteries, and confirm that everything is correctly wired. Lastly, many lithium systems incorporate battery heaters, and that may affect charging performance depending on ambient temperature.
__________________
Rob & Amy
2019 Passport 240BH SL (current)
2024 Cougar 29BHL (on order, due early May)
2022 Ford F250 7.3L Godzilla Crew Cab 4x4
NH_Bulldog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2023, 05:29 PM   #6
Camperklahowya
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: GIG HARBOR
Posts: 25
fridge is off, there is nothing on inside or outside.
I did notice a couple week ago the light for the jack was on.
switch was not working, so I disconnected the bulb.
Camperklahowya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2023, 05:34 PM   #7
jasin1
Senior Member
 
jasin1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Upper Chesapeake Bay
Posts: 4,804
i had to install a separate disconnect for my inverter because even with the power switch off it still drew power for internal diagnostics i suppose
my in·command and the radio memory and co detectors all draw some power from the battery..if your reading no load on your victron it’s just saying there is no connected load on the dedicated solar powered circuit receptacles …but you have many other circuits in the rv…this was assuming you had a inverter installed. Edit I should have rad thoroughly. I see it’s just a victron controller
__________________
2020 Cougar 315 RLS
2020 Ram 3500 6.7HO 4.10 Dually Aisin
jasin1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2023, 05:35 PM   #8
vampress_me
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 777
First,I will freely admit I don’t know a lot about batteries, charging, etc. But, my simple question: is there a switch on your converter/ charger to switch between LA and lithium batteries? If so, is it on lithium? I know that’s an issue with other brand campers with their converter/ charger., people forget to switch between LA and LI.
__________________
--Lynette

2019 F-350 diesel 4x4 CC LB DRW, not the mom taxi anymore...
2021 Alliance Paradigm 340RL
2016 F-350 diesel 4x4 CC LB SRW, mom taxi - sold
2014 Cougar XLite 28RDB - sold
vampress_me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2023, 05:50 PM   #9
Camperklahowya
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: GIG HARBOR
Posts: 25
good idea, app is switched to lithium.
Camperklahowya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2023, 05:51 PM   #10
Camperklahowya
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: GIG HARBOR
Posts: 25
the converter is my thought as well.
Camperklahowya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2023, 05:57 PM   #11
jasin1
Senior Member
 
jasin1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Upper Chesapeake Bay
Posts: 4,804
I thought keystone changed/upgraded the converter when they started offering factory solar?

question …if you have two sources for charging the battery ..solar and converter…does it trick the converter into thinking it doesn’t need to charge 100% if the solar is charging at the moment?
__________________
2020 Cougar 315 RLS
2020 Ram 3500 6.7HO 4.10 Dually Aisin
jasin1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2023, 06:01 PM   #12
Camperklahowya
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: GIG HARBOR
Posts: 25
not sure, emailed converter manufacturer for verification.
Camperklahowya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2023, 06:46 PM   #13
jasin1
Senior Member
 
jasin1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Upper Chesapeake Bay
Posts: 4,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by vampress_me View Post
First,I will freely admit I don’t know a lot about batteries, charging, etc. But, my simple question: is there a switch on your converter/ charger to switch between LA and lithium batteries? If so, is it on lithium? I know that’s an issue with other brand campers with their converter/ charger., people forget to switch between LA and LI.
i do remember that topic coming up on the forum..you may be right

one of the battery/ charging experts may chime in..i also remember someone saying the old style wfco converters wouldn’t charge optimally for lithium..but my memory isn’t what it used to be
__________________
2020 Cougar 315 RLS
2020 Ram 3500 6.7HO 4.10 Dually Aisin
jasin1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2023, 08:22 AM   #14
Stircrazy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Kamloops, BC
Posts: 369
did you change the converter to one that puts out a proper LFP profile? if not you will never get proper charging. they will charge but never to 100% and the top will be slow.
Stircrazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2023, 08:48 AM   #15
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,836
I think we're "so far into the woods, we can't see the forest for all the trees"...

First, OP, you've got to CONFIRM that your WFCO converter/charger is "lithium compatible". In other words, that it has a LI/LA switch on it AND that the switch is set to LI.

Your generator, if you're trying to charge lithium batteries with the 12 volt output, won't charge the batteries to a voltage greater than the generator output. That is 12VDC, so you'll NEVER charge lithium batteries beyond 12 volts with that generator's DC output. You can use the 120 VAC output to power a separate charger designed for lithium charging and get a much improved charging profile. If you are plugging your trailer shore power cord into the generator's 120 volt outlet, then you're "back to the first part"... Unless your WFCO converter/charger has a LI/LA switch, it can only charge them to approximately 80% of full charge. In short, the ONLY way you can use that generator to fully charge lithium batteries is to plug a separate "LI charger" into the 120VAC and charge them. The 12 volt output will not fully charge a lithium battery.

So, it all "boils down to starting back at square 1" and verifying which model WFCO converter/charger is installed in YOUR trailer and whether it has a lithium profile. If it does, is the switch set to LI ??? If it doesn't, then you can only charge to around 80% with that converter/charger.

The "fix" ???

1. You can use the WFCO to charge to 80% and use the SolarFlex to complete the charge.

2. You can replace the WFCO converter/charger with a different model that does have the capability to charge on a lithium profile (greater DC voltage output)

3. Use a "stand alone charger with a lithium profile" to "top off your batteries" after the "bulk charge capacity of the WFCO has done the best it can which is 80% of full charge"....

In summary, the "most probable cause" for your problem is that your WFCO converter/charger is either not set to LI or does not have a lithium profile so it can't charge your batteries to full capacity.

Here's two locations for the LI/LA switch on WFCO converter/chargers:
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	WFCO 9500LIS series power center diagram.JPG
Views:	142
Size:	63.2 KB
ID:	43247   Click image for larger version

Name:	WFCO LITHIUM COMPATABLE CONVERTER FUSE PANEL.JPG
Views:	116
Size:	80.9 KB
ID:	43248  
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2023, 09:01 AM   #16
colby
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 17
To me it sounds like the converter as others have suggested. Just because Keystone offers a solar package, it doesn't mean that they are putting in lithium capable converters. The other thing to check in addition to the controller would be the settings on the Victron controller, see if the profile on that is set to Lithium or SLA. The Dealer may not have configured it right (imagine)!
colby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2023, 11:21 AM   #17
Dacheedah
Member
 
Dacheedah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Location: Kankakee
Posts: 84
I don't have experience trying to charge lithium on a converter. I know in my boat I have to set the charger mode to wet cells, agm or lithium. The wrong setting won't work and can create battery issues. If your converter has that as an option I would check that first, I do know they are very particular on the way they are charged.
__________________
2013 Keystone Bullet Premiere 33 BLPR
2012 Ram 2500 with Ram Boxes

Army, 7th ID 7th MP Co
Retired LEO
9-1-1 Director
Dacheedah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2023, 12:27 PM   #18
Camperklahowya
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: GIG HARBOR
Posts: 25
thanks, I think they installed lithium batteries and left a converter that is not compatible. WFCO website recommends this...
https://wfcoelectronics.com/product/...center-series/

Can I keep the panel and just upgrade the converter?
Or is it a combo deal?

thanks for the help.
Pretty lame on the dealer's part.
Camperklahowya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2023, 01:56 PM   #19
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,836
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camperklahowya View Post
thanks, I think they installed lithium batteries and left a converter that is not compatible. WFCO website recommends this...
https://wfcoelectronics.com/product/...center-series/

Can I keep the panel and just upgrade the converter?
Or is it a combo deal?

thanks for the help.
Pretty lame on the dealer's part.
It sure is "lame on the dealer's part" !!!!! But in the dealer's defense, most dealer sales people don't talk to the service people, so if you had the salesman write up the upgrade to lithium batteries, chances are VERY GOOD that the parts people didn't make the connection and the service people just installed what the parts department sat in the trailer door when getting everything ready for the PDI...

If the batteries were installed "at the factory" as a part of an optional OEM upgrade (yes the factory does supply lithium batteries as an option), then it's "on the factory" and they should have upgraded the converter/charger before shipping the trailer....

Without knowing "where your batteries were installed" (dealer or factory) it's hard to "determine who to blame"....

All that said, to answer your question: Yes, you can just purchase a standalone converter/charger and pull the existing one, install and connect the LI/LA capable converter/charger in its place... It's an easy swap if you've got some basic electrical knowledge.... If you don't know the difference in a fuse and a circuit breaker, then it's probably something you'd want to get the dealer to do....

AND, after the dealership "screwed up the lithium battery installation, I'd first talk to the service manager, put the "blame on whoever installed the lithium batteries in a "lead acid trailer" and see if you might be able to "sweet talk them into fixing the issue as part of the trailer PDI"..... Who knows, maybe they will accept the repair as an "Oops we made a mistake".....
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2023, 03:34 PM   #20
sourdough
Site Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,598
I think the back story on how 2 Dragonfly lithium batteries got installed in the RV. Did the dealer just "throw those in"? I've never heard of one doing so. Did OP ask them to install them? If so, and that is all that was requested, the dealer is not at fault. I'm sure they thought the owner was going to do the necessary upgrades to make them compatible. When requesting upgrades from a dealer the requestor needs to know everything required, or ask, or they will get exactly what they asked for whether it works or not. Don't know that it's the case here but something is amiss with those batteries being installed with incompatible equipment by a dealer as "the plan".
__________________
Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
sourdough is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.