Gray tank

[Bamgram]

Hi, we just purchased a 2018 Cougar 28RKS. When we brought it home there was a horrible odor from under the kitchen sink. We took it back to dealer who cleaned it twice and said we were good. Brought home 2nd time same issue. We are taking it back again and they said they will clean it with Bleach. I am wondering if anyone has any ideas as to cause, other than previous owners did not clean it well? At what point do we get a new tank? This model vents out the side of the trailer instead of the roof like most others, is this the reason? Help appreciated.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Bamgram

Hi, we just purchased a 2018 Cougar 28RKS. When we brought it home there was a horrible odor from under the kitchen sink. We took it back to dealer who cleaned it twice and said we were good. Brought home 2nd time same issue. We are taking it back again and they said they will clean it with Bleach. I am wondering if anyone has any ideas as to cause, other than previous owners did not clean it well? At what point do we get a new tank? This model vents out the side of the trailer instead of the roof like most others, is this the reason? Help appreciated.

Open the doors to the sink base cupboard. Look for the P trap. Adjacent to it you'll see a "vent stack with a terminal vent" on it. That is probably your issue..

To test it to be sure, just cover that vent trap with a plastic bag and tape the bag in place on the vertical pipe. If the odor goes away, just replace the vent with a new one (available at Lowe's or HD).

Now, you'll NEVER (did I mention NEVER?) get rid of gray tank odor. You can disinfect the tank today, wash dishes once, drain the gray tank and store the trailer for a week in the summertime and the smells will be "right back in your face again"... Food particles are a reality when using a gray tank and the issue becomes "containing the smells" more than "stopping the smells from happening"....

Again, the problem is your "air admittance valve" (vent) at the top of the vent stack under the sink, not the bacteria in the gray tank.... You can't stop the bacteria from growing but you can stop their odor from flowing up through a bad valve and into the cupboard under the sink.....

[wiredgeorge]

I think John refers to an undersink vent? If so, the one used in your camper is likely a very cheap/ineffective vent. Go to Home Depot or the like and buy an Oatey or Studor vent. They cost about four times the cost of what Keystone used and are far more effective.
https://www.homedepot.com/s/under%20...20stack?NCNI-5

Another thing to try is removing the P trap which can be done easily and clean it outside using a hose and some bleach perhaps. That is a normal place for stink to occur. They get crud sitting on the bottom which can be uncovered when the trap dries out and stink.

[dutchmensport]

Actually, I differ from the statement above in the fact, odors can be eliminated. The process is simple. Every time you dump your grey water, pour a few ounces of a drain enzyme eater down the sink. There are multiple brands with multiple costs that can be used, order on line or visit a big box home improvement store.

If you add a few ounces (I recommend the liquid ones, not the powder ones), the enzyme eater will dissolve the smelly bacteria clinging around.

Another tip, dump your grey tank when it is full too, and if possible, occasionally back flush. You may need to attach a Flush King valve on your discharge port and attach a garden hose and force water into the tank backwards to help rinse out the food particles that cling to the bottom of the tank. However, once they get stuck they are next to impossible to clean out. Thus, the enzyme eaters will do that. It takes a little time, but it does work.

Also, never put grease down the kitchen sink drain. If your pots and pans have grease in them, always wipe the grease out with a paper towel and throw the paper towel away. Every speck of grease down the drain will accumulate, cause odors, and eventually cause clogs. This is where Shop Towels come in real nice (the blue ones or the white ones). They are cheap, sturdy, very absorbent, and don't shred like normal kitchen paper towels do. We also wipe off all our dishes with shop towels before washing too, to eliminate as much as possible going down the kitchen sink drain. And we do the same at home too, especially since we are on a septic tank at home. We've been doing it this way for over 30 years. Wipe the dishes with paper towels, throw the paper towels away, and then wash the dishes to minimize grease and food particles from going down the drain. Contrary to the imagination, those food particles do not just magically disappear!

[Bamgram]

We do not have an air valve. Ours drains straight down and the pipe goes out the side of the trailer not the roof like most do. Anybody else have this kind?

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by Bamgram

We do not have an air valve. Ours drains straight down and the pipe goes out the side of the trailer not the roof like most do. Anybody else have this kind?

Suggest you put together a signature with year, make and model of your camper and the same for your tow vehicle. Saves playing 20 questions and answers to your questions will have context.

[Dacheedah]

Have your tanks, black and grey jetted , grey tanks can get funky also

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by Bamgram

We do not have an air valve. Ours drains straight down and the pipe goes out the side of the trailer not the roof like most do. Anybody else have this kind?

If you have a holding tank, you should have a vent to the roof and a drain from the tank out the side. I have seen trailers with more than 1 tank vented to the roof through a single vent pipe.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Bamgram

We do not have an air valve. Ours drains straight down and the pipe goes out the side of the trailer not the roof like most do. Anybody else have this kind?

Your holding tanks will/should be vented. If they were completely closed they could not fill because the air filling the tank would have nowhere to go unless coming right back up the kitchen sink drain. You said yours "vents out the side", how? Where? A picture would help. Are you talking about the drain pipe itself?

[JRTJH]

It was a surprise to me to find a "sidewall tank vent" in a Keystone trailer, but, here it is....

Seems rather than put an admittance valve on the top of the galley sink drain, Keystone put a 90 degree elbow and routed the plumbing to the trailer sidewall, just aft of the sink location, right beside the rear awning arm.

On the outside is a 1.5" hole for the vent with a "downward facing vent cover".

Here's some photos of what I found. I sure learned about "Keystone sidewall vents" today...

The last three photos are the "admittance valve we commonly see and a different color horseshoe vent cover that is on the OP's trailer sidewall to vent his galley gray tank.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

It was a surprise to me to find a "sidewall tank vent" in a Keystone trailer, but, here it is....

Seems rather than put an admittance valve on the top of the galley sink drain, Keystone put a 90 degree elbow and routed the plumbing to the trailer sidewall, just aft of the sink location, right beside the rear awning arm.

On the outside is a 1.5" hole for the vent with a "downward facing vent cover".

Here's some photos of what I found. I sure learned about "Keystone sidewall vents" today...

The last three photos are the "admittance valve we commonly see and a different color horseshoe vent cover that is on the OP's trailer sidewall to vent his galley gray tank.

That is hard to believe. There is a reason vents generally go out through the roof as they tend to carry odors and to put one under the awning seems to be inviting folks to not sit under the awning.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

That is hard to believe. There is a reason vents generally go out through the roof as they tend to carry odors and to put one under the awning seems to be inviting folks to not sit under the awning.

Yes, I know.... Looking inside the trailer, at the floorplan, there is NO PLACE to vent a gray tank under the galley except through the curbside wall. There's a slide just forward of the galley and another slide opposite the galley and no "floor to ceiling cabinets anywhere close. So, from what I can see, there's just no way to vent the tank to the roof.

Here's a couple of photos of the interior to show the lack of available "floor to ceiling space" to run the vent stack up to the roof. And, the sidewalls are not an option. At 2" thick, no way to embed the plumbing in the sidewall.

And, with the slide rams on opposing slides, there doesn't appear to be any space under the trailer to move the tank aft to run the roof vent stack next to the refrigerator and still be able to connect the sink drain that far aft.

So, it is what it is: A "mandatory sidewall gray tank vent"...

[sourdough]

Well, if I've seen one I didn't know what it was, ain't that something. Now just imagine sitting back under the awning there knawing on that big 'ol ribeye with that thing "venting" at you on a good hot day.....

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Well, if I've seen one I didn't know what it was, ain't that something. Now just imagine sitting back under the awning there knawing on that big 'ol ribeye with that thing "venting" at you on a good hot day.....

You can still afford to eat steak?

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

You can still afford to eat steak?

Have you priced bologna (in Louisiana it's baloney) or salami lately ??? It's cheaper to buy a "family pack" of ribeyes than to buy baloney....

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

You can still afford to eat steak?

Our grocery store back home has a meat market. They have sales quite often on Tbones and bone in ribeyes (which I like better anyway). They price them at $1 lb. more than burger for a family pack. I buy quite a few then vacuum seal them. That's what I bring here to FL because I just can't get good steaks around here.

[thefulminator]

Have you put any water down the drain for that sink? If the trailer has sat for an extended period, it is possible the water in the trap has evaporated. The water in the trap is there to block the smell from escaping the tank.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Yes, I know.... Looking inside the trailer, at the floorplan, there is NO PLACE to vent a gray tank under the galley except through the curbside wall. There's a slide just forward of the galley and another slide opposite the galley and no "floor to ceiling cabinets anywhere close. So, from what I can see, there's just no way to vent the tank to the roof.

Here's a couple of photos of the interior to show the lack of available "floor to ceiling space" to run the vent stack up to the roof. And, the sidewalls are not an option. At 2" thick, no way to embed the plumbing in the sidewall.

And, with the slide rams on opposing slides, there doesn't appear to be any space under the trailer to move the tank aft to run the roof vent stack next to the refrigerator and still be able to connect the sink drain that far aft.

So, it is what it is: A "mandatory sidewall gray tank vent"...

Well there is a way to vent that tank to the roof if it is located like the one on our Copper Canyon 293FFSLS.

you can see the kitchen layout is almost identical to the OP's TT. Our kitchen sink has an air admittance valve right at the sink, then the drain runs around the inside of the base of the cabinets to the refer location the vent for the tank splits off and goes up inside the refer cavity and vents out the roof refer vent.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Well there is a way to vent that tank to the roof if it is located like the one on our Copper Canyon 293FFSLS.

you can see the kitchen layout is almost identical to the OP's TT. Our kitchen sink has an air admittance valve right at the sink, then the drain runs around the inside of the base of the cabinets to the refer location the vent for the tank splits off and goes up inside the refer cavity and vents out the roof refer vent.

Apparently, over the years, Keystone's "engineering staff" elected not to spend the extra money, time and effort to vent the way your trailer is vented. I'd make an educated guess that they determined that they could vent out the trailer sidewall, save 2 or 3 dollars per unit and not have enough purchasers complain to make an impact on sales....

Seems these days, if they (any manufacturer from grits in round boxes to cars and washing machines) subscribe to "profit is king" mantra.....

Who knows, maybe the OP can retrofit his trailer and keep the cost under his max budget, but I'd suspect modifying the trailer would cost 10 or 20 times more than it would have to "just do it right the first time" while they were building it....

Bottom line, it is what it is, change it or live with it.... "in this case, the profit's been made and ain't no changing that fact".....

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Apparently, over the years, Keystone's "engineering staff" elected not to spend the extra money, time and effort to vent the way your trailer is vented. I'd make an educated guess that they determined that they could vent out the trailer sidewall, save 2 or 3 dollars per unit and not have enough purchasers complain to make an impact on sales....

Seems these days, if they (any manufacturer from grits in round boxes to cars and washing machines) subscribe to "profit is king" mantra.....

Who knows, maybe the OP can retrofit his trailer and keep the cost under his max budget, but I'd suspect modifying the trailer would cost 10 or 20 times more than it would have to "just do it right the first time" while they were building it....

Bottom line, it is what it is, change it or live with it.... "in this case, the profit's been made and ain't no changing that fact".....

I have to agree, with the save a buck thought. As we got ready to go full time we had an issue with our basement. It is small to begin with only about 15" tall. Keystone in their divine wisdom ran the drain for the shower diagonally across this space.

So that was an early mod, moved to along the side wall, then across the front, a bit of drain plumbing. Yes, I know the trap above the outlet isn't the best, but if I ever need to pull it, It is a circuit I installed and easily turned off, also GFCI protected.

The patch visible in the after pictures, was the "Laundry Chute" which is nothing but nothing but a cold air leak for full timing in winter!!

Currently at the Park we are Hosting at it is 34 degrees, and about 6" of snow on the ground and still snowing!

This was how it was before!





This is the after.