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Old 03-02-2023, 08:02 AM   #21
JRTJH
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Originally Posted by Jim2366 View Post
Today I purchased 6 new tires from Discount Tire, Michelin LTX A/T 2. LT235 / 80 R17. They did a price match Walmart. I do get free rotation and tire balancing. They are a little more aggressive tread so I am hoping that will just provide me with longer wear. With tax I was right at 2k. About 3.3 cents per mile if I get the 60,000 miles that are expected.
Jim,

My 2015 F250 came with Michelin ATX LT2's in size LT275/70R 18. They lasted 50K miles and looking for a less expensive tire, I bought Sailun's in the same size. They lasted around 22K miles and one had tread separation (looked like a bicycle tire), so I returned to Michelins and bought the same OEM tires that were on the truck.

During the time I had the first set, they NEVER caused any issues, and honestly, if we live anywhere except northern Michigan, I'd have run them another 10K or so before replacing them. The ONLY reason I replaced them was because I wanted "more than a little tread" going into one of our winters. With anywhere between 10-20 feet of snow each winter, minimal tread just isn't an option. If we'd have still been in Louisiana (or anywhere it doesn't snow as much) I'd have run them for another year and easily could have got 60K out of them.

While there are other "Michelin choices" that you could have selected, I wouldn't beat yourself up over the ATX LT2's. They're a good tire, give good treadwear, aren't "rough riding" or more noisey than other tires in the same category. Sure, $2K is a lot of money, but that's the price for any "quality tire" from any of the "name brand manufacturers"....

I think once you get 10 or 20K on the tires, you'll appreciate their reliability and performance.
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Old 03-02-2023, 09:43 AM   #22
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Today I purchased 6 new tires from Discount Tire, Michelin LTX A/T 2. LT235 / 80 R17. They did a price match Walmart. I do get free rotation and tire balancing. They are a little more aggressive tread so I am hoping that will just provide me with longer wear. With tax I was right at 2k. About 3.3 cents per mile if I get the 60,000 miles that are expected.
I'm not running a dually but I had those tires (same size) and they were great for towing and hiway use. IIRC they had over 70k miles on them when I replaced them in January of 2022 with Michilen Defenders.

Both model of tires did excellent on dry & wet roads as well as snow. Neither are very good for mud. IMO good performance in mud requires a tire that won't work well for towing. The Defenders seem to be a little less noisy. These are my experience with my truck. YMMV
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Old 03-02-2023, 10:53 AM   #23
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After picking the truck up yesterday I had a little buyers remorse or concern with getting the tires. All the tires I had in the past were more Hwy and not All Terrain. Last night I spent more time after the fact of buying them, not the order you should do things and they have good reviews from RVers. Hopefully they will end to work well with pulling the 5th wheel.

Don't worry about those tires. You've got them so enjoy them. The LTX A/T2 is a great tire, lots of folks own them and are very happy with them so don't look back.
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Old 03-02-2023, 04:21 PM   #24
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Jim, like was said previously, don’t sweat over the purchase. You now have an excellent tire, and will give you great service. You will probably not notice the little bit of road noise.
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Old 03-02-2023, 05:57 PM   #25
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Michelin is a good tire. I have nothing bad to say about them. That's all our company uses on the entire truck fleet, Canada and USA. They run about 270 trucks and trailers, and they use Super Singles on both, so our semi's are actually 10 wheelers, not 18 wheelers. They support more weight than traditional semi tires and in my opinion, they offer a better ride. Pricey? Sure. I think the drive tires were about $1400 a piece. Probably a bit higher now. But we get 400K miles out of them with no problem. And having an international account, if we have a flat or blow out we just call a number and they send someone out with whatever we need. Another truck lost a driveshaft on 285 in Atlanta a couple of years ago and we hit it, blowing out one drive tire and one trailer tire. Michelin brought out the two tires we needed, including one new rim, and they had us rolling in about three hours.

On my F-350 dually I had a set of Goodyear Trail Runners and got 65K miles out of them, rotating every 7K-10K miles. They were M&S rated but honestly, they didn't have much traction in dirt. They were quiet though. But after five years the sidewalls were cracking.

So, wanting better traction for off road, last year I switched to Yokahoma Geolander M/T G003's and so far I'm impressed. They are much quieter than I expected. They have a very aggressive tread and a couple of weeks ago I actually pulled a tree stump out of the ground putting it in low range 4X4. The tires barely made an impression on the lawn, just dug down an inch or so and walked out of there snatching the stump out. The Goodyears would have spun for sure. Not sure what to expect on mileage but they feel solid at 68 mph and I experienced no hydroplaning of any sort in heavy rain. I believe I paid around $1500 for them.


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Old 03-08-2024, 09:53 PM   #26
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Tire review after one year Michelin LTX A/T LT235 /80/R17

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Today I purchased 6 new tires from Discount Tire, Michelin LTX A/T 2. LT235 / 80 R17. They did a price match Walmart. I do get free rotation and tire balancing. They are a little more aggressive tread so I am hoping that will just provide me with longer wear. With tax I was right at 2k. About 3.3 cents per mile if I get the 60,000 miles that are expected.
After driving on the tires for a year I have had no problems. They hold air good, they are quite and ride smooth on road. They have not worn at all and I would buy them again.
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Old 03-09-2024, 08:41 AM   #27
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After driving on the tires for a year I have had no problems. They hold air good, they are quite and ride smooth on road. They have not worn at all and I would buy them again.

Thanks for the follow up Jim. Tires garner a lot of interest and discussion. Your evaluation will help someone I'm sure.
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Old 03-09-2024, 05:01 PM   #28
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Another vote for cooper discover at3 , i have a ram 3500 dually with 65,000 on them and can still run them a little longer. I got 4 at tirerack for under $1,000. AT3 have a nice beefy tread that are great for snow rain and mud and they are still a smooth and quiet ride for highway use. Mine were e load range and 10 ply. check to see if thet do 18 inch.
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Old 03-09-2024, 08:24 PM   #29
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I had run Michelin tires on the past two F350 DRW trucks. But on this last truck, both the M/S and the ATs wore prematurely. All I got was 35,000 miles when I used to get 70,000 miles. I switched to Coopers and when I sold the truck, they had 50,000 on them and would probably make 70,000 miles.

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Old 03-10-2024, 05:52 AM   #30
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I had run Michelin tires on the past two F350 DRW trucks. But on this last truck, both the M/S and the ATs wore prematurely. All I got was 35,000 miles when I used to get 70,000 miles. I switched to Coopers and when I sold the truck, they had 50,000 on them and would probably make 70,000 miles.

Ken
I have run into the same problem with various brand name tires. We got 70K miles out of the Goodyears that came on my wife's Trailblazer that we bought in 2006. I replaced them with the exact same tire and they didn't make it to 40K miles!? So undoubtedly the manufacturers use different rubber compounds on the same tires that you got 70K miles out of. What a grand marketing idea to boost sales, right?!
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Old 03-24-2024, 07:04 AM   #31
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The Michelins' that were factory on the truck came off at 33K with only about 5-7K of tread left.

I'm trying the Falken wildpeak 3. They have come out with the wildpeak 4 and discounts on the 3's are all over the internet. From what I'm told the 4's are a little harder compound and rated at 60K. The 3's are only rated at 50K miles.
1600 for 6 tires mounted, balanced and out the door.
I'll see if it was big mistake in about 30K.
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Old 03-24-2024, 07:26 AM   #32
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Are there any differences in tire compound between Michelin Fleet Tires and retail versions of the same tire? eg: AGILIS CrossClimate LT235/80/R17
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Old 03-24-2024, 08:27 AM   #33
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Are there any differences in tire compound between Michelin Fleet Tires and retail versions of the same tire? eg: AGILIS CrossClimate LT235/80/R17
Use caution if considering the Agilis CrossClimate for summer towing !!!!

We've had a couple of members report very disappointing results with this tire. Why? It's a "winter tire" intended primarily for snow/ice conditions and although it's rated as "cross climate" it is not an "all season tire"...

Using the Michelin website, the "projected tire longevity is rated at 24,500 miles. The rubber compound used in Michelin's tires (and probably all other tire manufacturers as well) is formulated for specific performance conditions. The Agilis CrossClimate is formulated to remain soft in colder temperatures. This makes it "not so great" when under heavy load on a hot, sunbaked summer road with a trailer adding to the cargo load.

If you look at the Agilis advertising, it states "Exceptional longivity when compared to the competition"... What that means is when compared to other "winter tires" the Agilis lasts 10-15% more miles. When the competition lasts 17K miles, the Agilis "outperforms the competition" (in the expected winter conditions) but it still FAILS MISERABLY when compared to a "true LT truck all season tire" which typically gives 45K-60K lifetime mileage.

I don't know of any light/heavy duty truck that comes from the manufacturer with Agilis CrossClimate tires as OEM.

Read the small print !!!
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Old 03-24-2024, 10:36 AM   #34
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Use caution if considering the Agilis CrossClimate for summer towing !!!!

We've had a couple of members report very disappointing results with this tire. Why? It's a "winter tire" intended primarily for snow/ice conditions and although it's rated as "cross climate" it is not an "all season tire"...

If you look at the Agilis advertising, it states "Exceptional longivity when compared to the competition"... What that means is when compared to other "winter tires" the Agilis lasts 10-15% more miles. When the competition lasts 17K miles, the Agilis "outperforms the competition" (in the expected winter conditions) but it still FAILS MISERABLY when compared to a "true LT truck all season tire" which typically gives 45K-60K lifetime mileage.

I don't know of any light/heavy duty truck that comes from the manufacturer with Agilis CrossClimate tires as OEM.
Well, yes that is a deep subject!

The 3500 I purchased this winter has a beautiful set of 6 Agilis CrossClimate on it and we plan on doing Coast to Coast and back to Kansas over a couple of months starting in June. So I'm in a pickle regarding these tires.

Just started looking at Cooper AT3 LT, between the comments on the Forum and Cooper's description, they seem to fit what we need.

I was originally considering getting their HT version and swapping tires on the rims seasonally, but I find that to be too much trouble.

Also considered getting another set of wheels, steel is doable, but replacing the Alcoas is too pricey.

If I kept the 6 tires and sold them on something like Craigs List would $500 for all six sound reasonable?

Just remembered, in the '90s I was using Bridgestones on our F350 without any issues towing, etc. Are they still reliable for this application?
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Old 03-24-2024, 11:56 AM   #35
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I'm usually "long winded" and this isn't going to be the start of any change in that, so:

There's a bucketload to consider when it comes to making a decision about "dedicated winter tires" vs "quality all season tires". Either decision really boils down to compromises for most people. Here's a few things to consider:

1. If you decide to use the Agilis as a winter tire and swap them out, the cost to change out tires annually means 2 changes of 6 tires (12 total) and the current costs around here are $30/tire. That's roughly $200 two times a year to change them out.

2. Where are you going to store the off season tires? Keeping them "high and dry" is important. Keeping them away from ozone producing electric motors is important. Keeping them from laying on each other is important. They take up a lot of storage space and when winter comes and you take the winter tires out, you then have to store the summer tires, so the space for all the summer equipment still is "used by tires" instead of the lawn mower and the lawn furniture.

3. Around here, most people who change out tires, use steel tires for the winter. Steel is cheaper and if they rust from corrosive salt/chemicals used on the roads, at least the expensive wheels are still "nice looking for summer use.

4. You can expect that Agilis tires, used only in the winter, will still last about half as many miles as all season tires and the "critical factor" for Agilis tires is the tread depth for snow. The softer rubber helps traction on ice, but without the tread to "dig into the snow" they are useless when the tread gets shallow.

Then, the other consideration:

1. All Season tires last longer but aren't as "sticky" on ice and have the same "tread depth requirement" for snowy road conditions.

2. Having the same tires means the same wheels, so the expensive OEM wheels are exposed to salt and chemicals on the roads all year long.

3. There's no storage problems and the lawn mower and chairs can be stored inside where they were before needing the space for tires.

4. End of life tire tread, if you live in a snow/ice area, may mean you have to lose 10-15K of tire life, if you get caught going into the winter with tires that lack enough tread to make it through the winter. Do you risk the "may be OK" tires in November/December and change them out midwinter? Or do you lose that extra few thousand miles of use and change them out in September to avoid any potential issues all winter long? If you keep the old tires, expecting to put them back on the wheels to "wring out those extra miles", do you really ever get there??? My experience doing this sort of means I have old tires that I'll never use taking up space I could better use and having tires I'll never EVER put back on the truck.

Agilis tires are, at best, a 30K mile tire for most applications. Towing heavy means increased wear. If you consider longevity as a component of performance, then Agilis tires "start out with a negative element".

If you have space to store them and can afford the initial investment of steel wheels, then keep what you have with the understanding that they will wear faster than the A/S tires you use in summer. The price of buying 6 steel wheels (used are as functional as new) and you don't mind the "different appearance when it's snowing, the $400-500 spent on the wheels is really not much different than the cost to change 6 tires for one full year ($400). Of course next year, it'll start costing you "out of pocket" with no more savings.

Now, as for which tire brand to buy? Personal preference, availability while on the road, ease of getting them serviced, and, for some people, whether they come with raised white letters or outlined white letters might even become a factor to consider....

There was an old tire store/warehouse in Alexandria, LA, that had a TV personality that was sort of like Cal Worthington used to be in southern California. He started every commercial with this: "Tires are ugly, they stink, they get you dirty, but you need them, so come see us for those things you don't want to touch or smell". I sort of look at tire shopping much the same. It's not a "fun thing to do" and I found out with my Sailun Terramax AT4S that the $300 I saved over buying Michelin LTX A/T2 (OEM tire) was a "great buy" until 22K later when one of them failed and there were no Sailun dealers anywhere around Flint Michigan and I was forced to make a "hard decision" about what to do 100 miles from home with a 10K trailer hitched to the truck....

My "hard decision" was to buy 4 new Michelin LTX A/T2's and "donate the cheaper tires" to the rubber recycle company in Flint....

Tires, for me, are all black, ugly and stink... My days of saving $300 on a set of tires, are long in my past. With the exception of that one set of Sailun truck tires, for the last 40 years or so, it's always been Michelin. My future won't change what's "always been" as long as I can afford that extra $300.

Now, your decision may well be different from mine, based on what's available where you live, how much storage you have for tires, whether you can justify buying steel wheels (and new Agilis tires when this set doesn't have enough tread for another winter) among just a few of the things to consider.

I will say that there are "excellent tires, good tires and not so good tires" and it's not always about the manufacturer's reputation with other types of tires (LT ATX vs Agilis is one such comparison). I'd steer clear of a "bargain" and look for tires from a PREMIUM manufacturer which is not necessarily a "biggest factory" manufacturer.....

As with Chevy, Ford, GMC and Dodge/RAM arguments, everyone has their preference and they're all pretty much going to give you good service regardless of brand you choose, with tires, IMO, that doesn't always hold true. I'd pick a premium tire designed for "ALL YEAR HEAVY TOWING USE" over a "supposedly best in the market" (Michelin) tire that best meets winter use and can also be used in summer that is advertised to only last 25K miles. In that tire, it's not the reputation of the manufacturer or even the competition's offerings, it's just the wrong tire for the intended "all year towing" conditions....

Maybe a "fairer comparison" for the Agilis vs LTX AT2 would be putting "cheater slicks" on the family sedan and then complaining about not being able to pull the boat out of the water on a wet ramp.....

There are some (maybe many) other tire brands that are just as good as Michelin. I wouldn't argue that because I haven't used every one out there to have that "personal experience" to fall back on. What I can say is that I'm at the age that I no longer need to "experiment with something that could be just as good as what I know is going to work for me"... So my days of buying tires to "see if they will compare" are behind me.... My concern is not having tire troubles in the future, so for me, it's a "buy what I know has always been troublefree" and don't look back..... YMMV
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Old 03-24-2024, 03:34 PM   #36
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John: Thank you for the detailed assessment regarding my tire issue.

We both mentioned a set of steel wheels for the winter tires as an option. Then I thought about our winter trips to visit our children which has us traverse winter conditions and into warm conditions either Cal, or Fla which would melt the treads off the winter Agilis CrossClimate tires. These tires came on the truck when I purchased it in December, and they are still like new. I do have room in our shop to store them properly, I 'm considering doing that for the time being, and will start serious tire shopping on Monday. A deep snow tread in this portion of Kansas isn't as important as ice traction. Therefore I have some hunting to do, the Cooper AT3 LT might be a little noisy for me even though the cab is equipped with noise canceling. So, I'm looking for a HD highway tire in 235/80/17 that won't wear out if you look at it crossways! My load is much less than those towing 5ers, although I have switched to towing only on the ball of a Bulletproof Hitch without weight distribution, so between all the goodies and tools in the bed and the tongue weight, I'm in the neighborhood of 2000 lbs or slightly over combined. Unless we get crazy and trade up to a 5er on a whim which I doubt since all the upgrades we have dumped into this TT, any of the decent brand tires I hope will do the trick.
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Old 03-24-2024, 04:11 PM   #37
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Robert a bit on the Agilis. A couple of years ago while in FL I entertained the thought of replacing my Firestone Tranforce A/Ts with some Michelin Defenders so stopped by Discount Tire in Tallahassee. The guy, for whatever reason, told me all they had were the Agilis because the Defenders were being discontinued. I knew this was wrong but it precipitated me digging into both tires because I wondered about the Agilis as an alternative. Through that quick deep dive I determined that I didn't want them due to issues already mentioned, the fact that the Defenders were still available everywhere (but there I guess) and my prior very positive experiences with the Defenders. Of course on the way home one of the Firestones went flat while I was towing, made me unhappy and I ended up buying new Defenders in Weatherford, TX - they had 32k on them.

The Agilis construction is tilted toward better performance in particular weather conditions - towing is not one of them. There are so many proprietary rubber compounds out there for tires it makes the brain sizzle but it's not meant for heavy duty weight bearing for long periods on pavement. I went with Defenders about 2015. They are made with a compound that is quiet, wears well and has good traction. They almost seem soft when working the rubber but that is because they have full depth siping....most tires don't have that. It gives the tire more traction than you would think because the tread blocks can move and "grip". Others with partial siping just turn into big rubber blocks once the siping is worn off in 2-4 32nds. I used the Defenders going to my mountain house in snow/ice every year as well as pulling a RV around the country. True M/S tires do better in snow but worse on ice, pavement and rain. I've used Pro Comp, Nitto, Toyo, Mickey Thompson, BFG, Super Swamper....stay away from those type tires for your intended uses.



I've owned LOTS of tires for personal vehicles and spec'd many more tires for my company vehicles. Lots of things to consider, and you could make a run with those new Agilis....once....maybe . I've never bought a set of Cooper Tires but they seem to have become more popular. The AT3 LT tires you are looking at don't have what appears to be an extremely aggressive tread pattern, BUT, tread design and rubber compound will make all the difference in the world as far as noise. Had a set of Pro Comps that looked about like that and after about 10k you couldn't hear yourself think for the noise.

Edit: Sorry for being "long winded" too (as I usually am).
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Old 03-24-2024, 05:54 PM   #38
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Danny: Thank you for the information, some of it I was aware most of it I wasn't. Looked into the Defenders, and it appears that they now have been discontinued. I had put LTX on the 1500 and they were great. But, I'm going to talk to a friend of mine that has two 3500 RAM DRW and he tows both a huge toy hauler, and a large show horse trailer with accommodations forward. If I'm not mistaken, he uses Cooper HT3 tires on his trucks.
Bob
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Old 03-24-2024, 06:37 PM   #39
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I had the Michelin LTX AT2's 245x75x17's on my '17 F350 dually. Great highway tires and even for light off road use. OEM factory tires and were still on the truck when I sold it. Fronts were wearing a little on the edges but rears still looked new. Had only 38K miles on the truck when I sold it. Tires have come a long way since I started driving in '62. Nylon tires with tubes back then!!
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Old 03-24-2024, 07:32 PM   #40
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Danny: Thank you for the information, some of it I was aware most of it I wasn't. Looked into the Defenders, and it appears that they now have been discontinued. I had put LTX on the 1500 and they were great. But, I'm going to talk to a friend of mine that has two 3500 RAM DRW and he tows both a huge toy hauler, and a large show horse trailer with accommodations forward. If I'm not mistaken, he uses Cooper HT3 tires on his trucks.
Bob

Talk to Michelin about the Defenders. I had a couple of dealers tell me that the Defender was discontinued and tried to move me to another brand/style (E coast). I was just in Discount Tire about a week ago (W TX) having these Defenders rotated/balanced asking about them and there was no problem. It may be a regional thing?
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