Factory Repair for Structural Issue.

[RickV]

I brought this up about a year ago. There is a crack in the fiberglass at the lower right corner of our Front Kitchen Slideout. I had taken it to the dealer for a long list of warranty issues, 15 if I remember correctly. At the time some of the more technically acute members suggested that it was structural and the dealer basically said the same thing. I had taken it 3 times for other warranty issues on the list and they would fix a few and then call me to come pick it up. It was costing me over $100 in diesel and 4 hours of my time to take it in and drop it off and then pick it up. Every time they would fix a few things and say we are waiting on parts. Well to make a long story shorter the crack issue never got resolved along with some delamination on the rear panel. The Slide has reached the point where I have to push on the lower right corner of the slide while retracting it to get to go in the last 4" or so. I had an incident leaving a CG back in August and did damage to the rear panel and it got messed up pretty bad. I got insurance involved with that and so I called my dealer to see if i could send them the PDF from the adjuster and get them to order the parts to fix the rear and also about the warranty issue on the front slide. Well the service adviser would not listen to what I was saying to her and kept talking about the rear panel warranty issue which is now a moot point because insurance is paying for it. She could not grasp this and kept talking about the rear and warranty so, I basically ended the phone call. I decided I was done with this dealership which I will not name but, they just off I-75 south of Ocala, Fl. I called another dealer who is only 15 miles away and is an authorized Keystone dealer. I sent em the PDF and made an appointment for a week after we got home on Oct 30th. I took it in and they did their thing and ordered the parts for the rear. When they looked at the front crack the Service Manger who said he used to a Factory Engineer said that the front crack/slideout issue would need to be fixed by the factory and that I should contact them. So after this long winded post I am looking for advice/pointers on the best way to get the factory involved in resolving this issue.

[jlc]

You can contact Keystone yourself, but typically it needs to be an authorized Keystone dealer putting in the request to Keystone for the factory return for repairs.

[Mikendebbie]

Try searching this forum and sister forum Montana Owners Forum using the term “frame flex” and read hundreds of threads on the subject and how folks have handled it with dealers and/or factory. You will see lots of photos to compare to your issue.

[ChuckS]

The crack you are experiencing is well known.. Has been for almost 20 years. And yet it continues..

Here is the complete repair version 2 ( latest repair )..

And the best place hands down to get this repair done is :

https://affinityrvgroup.com/

[RickV]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

The crack you are experiencing is well known.. Has been for almost 20 years. And yet it continues..

Here is the complete repair version 2 ( latest repair )..

And the best place hands down to get this repair done is :

https://affinityrvgroup.com/

Thanks for the info. If it wasn't for the fact that closing the slide has gotten to the point of having to assist it and at anytime it could stop going in all the way I wouldn't be as concerned and just mark it up to bad quality control on Keystone's behalf. So I guess I need to speak with the Service Manager at the new dealership I am dealing with to get the ball rolling.

[ChuckS]

Originally Posted by RickV

Thanks for the info. If it wasn't for the fact that closing the slide has gotten to the point of having to assist it and at anytime it could stop going in all the way I wouldn't be as concerned and just mark it up to bad quality control on Keystone's behalf. So I guess I need to speak with the Service Manager at the new dealership I am dealing with to get the ball rolling.

Behind the exterior wall you have at least one broken aluminum stud at the weld.. This is only gonna get worse to the point that your slide won't move at all .. the crack is gonna continue and you are also going to see issues going up the wall .. not just downward at an angle..

I live in Idaho.. There is Not ONE RV dealership in the entire state that I would trust to do the repair you need on yours.. I would have to take mine to Affinity to get repaired.. Mine is a 2014 and is the 3010RE ( smallest Alpine ) at 34 feet.. I think its one of the reasons that I have not had "knock on wood" any issues with my BR slide wall cracking..

I also watch ho much weight I stick into the forward compartment.. Some carry a ton of crap forward and are running with very heavy pin weights..

I think.. and its just my elderly mind thinking this... that the excessive pin weight on some of the longer Alpines is also a contributor.

The super structure that Keystone welds onto the Lippert frame needs more gussets for support and the weld qualities on some of the aluminum studs are worse than a 10 year old could do.. I have been welding for about 45 years now..

I wish you the best of success in getting yours repaired by a place that has done the repair before and knows what they are doing.

[Camp CA]

The dealer OR a Keystone's designated repair shop (arranged by the dealer) should be able to repair the stress crack and corrdinate with Keystone on the repair strategy. Mine did. Keystone even had the dealer make the same repair to the opposing side even though it was not cracked to mitigate the risk of future structural damage.

The repair strategy requires removing the skin, welding new aluminum structual braces in the wall, re-instating the skin and installing an expanision joint.

[ChuckS]

Originally Posted by Camp CA

The dealer OR a Keystone's designated repair shop (arranged by the dealer) should be able to repair the stress crack and corrdinate with Keystone on the repair strategy. Mine did. Keystone even had the dealer make the same repair to the opposing side even though it was not cracked to mitigate the risk of future structural damage.

The repair strategy requires removing the skin, welding new aluminum structual braces in the wall, re-instating the skin and installing an expanision joint.

Yup.. There are some excellent RV service centers that can also do this repair.. In Idaho .. there are none.. IMO.... CW and Bish are the major places on the east and west side of Idaho.. I would not let any of these work on a ryder wagon .. let alone my RV.

We did have some good local places in Idaho but these have all been acquired by CW.. The well known place I have purchased the last 5 RVs from was acquired by CW..

[Camp CA]

My dealer in Pismo Beach, California (250 miles from my home and dropping the trailer off there was not a big deal since we were traveling back from Palm Desert) repaired the stress crack. However, an rv'er friend had to have his Cougar fifth wheel towed 500+ miles to a Keystone-authorized shop in Oregon to make the same repair and back to his home.

I would request the dealer arrange for the repair at a Keystone-authousized shop and arrange for transport. Keystone needs to stand behind the repair.

[haulinit]

There is a service bulletin for this issue in the 2021 models. Mine had the crack too. I sent an email to Keystone asking what I needed to do to get it fixed.

I had to send them my VIN and pictures. They verified that yes it was covered and I needed to make an appointment with a Keystone dealership. Once I got that appointment I had to let Keystone know.

I got it fixed and all made like new BUT….. the fiberglass is cracking again after only two months. I have it in a shop right now for some other stuff. The said there should have been a “stress cut” put in so the wall could flex. This repair shop is going to do that.

Shelley

[RickV]

Update:
Today makes 3 weeks that I took it to a Camping World near me. I talked to the Service dept. on Saturday and they said that they had sent Keystone pictures and info and that keystone had requested more info. They said that they had sent the more info Keystone had requested and were waiting for the OK from Keystone. They also claimed that keystone was offering only 5 hours for the repair and they estimated 60 hours. They said that besides the structural problems that the Pillars/Supports for the slide out were messed up (bent) too and would need to be replaced. So yesterday I called Keystone and they said they were waiting on Camping World to "Flip a Switch"(?) on the updated info. I know one thing this is the last "New" RV we will ever buy, let someone else deal with the crappy build, quality control and warranty service.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by RickV

Update:
Today makes 3 weeks that I took it to a Camping World near me. I talked to the Service dept. on Saturday and they said that they had sent Keystone pictures and info and that keystone had requested more info. They said that they had sent the more info Keystone had requested and were waiting for the OK from Keystone. They also claimed that keystone was offering only 5 hours for the repair and they estimated 60 hours. They said that besides the structural problems that the Pillars/Supports for the slide out were messed up (bent) too and would need to be replaced. So yesterday I called Keystone and they said they were waiting on Camping World to "Flip a Switch"(?) on the updated info. I know one thing this is the last "New" RV we will ever buy, let someone else deal with the crappy build, quality control and warranty service.

Rick, not sure if the "contact Marcus" thing is still a thing but at one time you could email the boss directly. That might be worth a shot. Or you could go in and make faces at the dealership service manager till he got sick of looking at you and provided what was needed to get the go ahead from Keystone on the repairs.

[JRTJH]

This is NOT a "defense of Keystone", especially since the "front frame flex problem" has been ongoing for at least the last 10 years, possibly for as long as Keystone has been building large fifth wheels on Lippert frames...

So, "extenuating circumstanses" include:

Yesterday was the first day since before Christmas that Keystone has been working with more than a skeleton staff. The plant was closed (except for security and the phone staff) and just reopened for business yesterday, February 6th. Trying to get "things done expeditiously" since the scheduled closing just wasn't gonna happen, no matter how frustrated, impatient or angry you might have been.... When the approving authority is on vacation in the Bahamas, the approval paperwork WILL sit in an inbox until the plant reopens...

Now looking back at the problem, it's been a "known issue" for, as I said earlier, at least the last 10 years. So buying a "used trailer without the problem" may well mean buying a 2010 or earlier trailer, and that's no "guarantee that the frame won't flex just like yours is doing".....

Now that the plant is open again, with a full administrative staff and functioning management, hopefully your problem will be addressed and your dealership will get an answer from Keystone in a reasonable timeframe.....

https://www.keystonerv.com/employees

Not that it's any consolation or help for you, but think of the people who are waiting for something to get done at the Oregon facilities... They don't return to work for another 2 weeks, February 20th...

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

This is NOT a "defense of Keystone", especially since the "front frame flex problem" has been ongoing for at least the last 10 years, possibly for as long as Keystone has been building large fifth wheels on Lippert frames....

John has anyone ever had the cracked frame that had no bedroom east/west slide out? Almost all the campers I can recall seem to have a slide out on the driver's side coming out of the bedroom. I also seem to recall other frame issues but not the type Rick is having... just curious.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by RickV

Update:
Today makes 3 weeks that I took it to a Camping World near me. I talked to the Service dept. on Saturday and they said that they had sent Keystone pictures and info and that keystone had requested more info. They said that they had sent the more info Keystone had requested and were waiting for the OK from Keystone. They also claimed that keystone was offering only 5 hours for the repair and they estimated 60 hours. They said that besides the structural problems that the Pillars/Supports for the slide out were messed up (bent) too and would need to be replaced. So yesterday I called Keystone and they said they were waiting on Camping World to "Flip a Switch"(?) on the updated info. I know one thing this is the last "New" RV we will ever buy, let someone else deal with the crappy build, quality control and warranty service.

Rick those hours allowed by Keystone are negotiable. Those estimates are made by a "tech" that's been moved into the warranty dept. that may or may not have a clue about what he's doing (at least in my case). I had to get involved with not only Keystone but CW management to get the additional hours approved (substantial increase). When the required work was given to those above the "tech", and the procedures explained, both entities agreed that the "allowed" hours given by the tech were not realistic.

[travelin texans]

My 1st big 5er was a '02 Cedar Creek followed by a '09 Big Country then to the Redwood, all of them had a crack somewhere around the bedroom slide & as far as I knew at the time they were typical stress cracks found on all 5ers with bedroom slides. Take a walk around a campground & see how many have the crack or the factory stress relief, I'm guessing 75%+.
I actually put the T brace stress relief on the Redwood covering the crack. The crack would seperate about 1/8-1/4" when connected to the truck, which in my opinion was not a lot of movement considering the 3k+ pin weight.
I can't imagine the kind of stress & pin weight on the front kitchen floorplans. The kitchen side of my rear living model was considerably heavier than the opposite side due all the heavy appliances & large pantry.

[Bearcatrp]

If this is a common issue with keystone RVs, surprised a class action lawsuit hasn’t happened yet. It’s BS not standing up behind their product but giving customers the run around getting it fixed. Glad I read this post as now I will wonder if my 2021 half ton will go through this BS.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by Bearcatrp

If this is a common issue with keystone RVs, surprised a class action lawsuit hasn’t happened yet. It’s BS not standing up behind their product but giving customers the run around getting it fixed. Glad I read this post as now I will wonder if my 2021 half ton will go through this BS.

Since you have not set up a signature with year, make and model of your Cougar nor does your profile include this information, it isn't likely whether anyone could guess if your camper might be affected in the future. This problem occurs generally in a certain area on 5th wheels configured in a certain manner. I have a Cougar and list it as a 2002 Cougar 278EFS and anyone seeing that would know I would not likely be affected by cracks.

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by Bearcatrp

If this is a common issue with keystone RVs, surprised a class action lawsuit hasn’t happened yet. It’s BS not standing up behind their product but giving customers the run around getting it fixed. Glad I read this post as now I will wonder if my 2021 half ton will go through this BS.

Its NOT A KEYSTONE ISSUE, but rather a Lippert frame issue, Look it up.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Its NOT A KEYSTONE ISSUE, but rather a Lippert frame issue, Look it up.

apparently Keystone is responsible for EVERYTHING after the sale,no matter if it’s out of their control or not by reading other posts …The dealer messes up a repair ? Keystones fault….Suburban furnace breaks…Keystone …you get a undercooked hamburger WHILE towing your Keystone?..you guessed it..Keystones fault..get a lawyer