Cougar BHS electrical upgrade...potentially

[92xj]

I'll start a new thread here instead of in the introduction area.

http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums...382#post373382

To answer the questions

Originally Posted by flybouy

Welcome to the forum. Yes there are many threads on "upgrading" the 12 volt system. What I'd recommend to you is to post a little more info. What are your expectations i.e. what do you plan on running and for how long? Also what kind of budget are you considering?

Answering these questions should help narrow down the reply's to better suite your situation.

Originally Posted by Ken / Claudia

Many pros and cons to what ever system you use. I will not only rely on just 1.
A combination of solar, generator and battery maybe the best. I have never tried solar due to my dry camping is normally fall/winter and camp in tall timber in valleys ie, not much daylight or direct sun light.
As asked tell us more about what your use will be and what you expect the system to run besides more than 24 hours or what your 2 12v batteries are not doing.

A little more info to help direct me on what to do.

We camp off grid 100% of the time during all months of the year.
This past year the incident that made me start thinking that I needed to make a change was the heater not kicking on around 4am because there was not enough juice in the batteries. Had to get out of bed, fire up the inverter generator (I bought two of these, run one at a time unless the kicks are napping in the summer and it's 100 degrees out, then the AC gets kicked on for them https://www.homedepot.com/p/Westinghouse-2-500-2-200-Watt-Super-Quiet-Gas-Powered-Inverter-Generator-with-LED-Display-iGen2500/304312161) to get the heat to kick back on. If I was alone on a hunting trip, no big deal, but at that time the son was 6 months and the daughter 2.5. So i needed it.

With kids and a wife comes way more energy consumption than when I'm alone. Typical day of wake up, lights are on until enough sun light. there will be at least a single shower or bath. awning light at night until bed time. Nothing excessive at all and wife has a power save conscious. We have 2 12 volt deep cycles from the dealer so I am assuming they aren't the best; can look at brand and model this evening.
With that normal day, I have to run the generator in the afternoon for a few hours to guarantee the batteries make it through the night for the heater during the cold.

I did buy this, https://www.costco.com/coleman-100w-solar-panel-with-8.5-amp-charge-controller.product.100389117.html but have not been out since the purchase. While parked on the side of the house it did keep the batteries topped off but that's not a good test.

What I would like is to get two nights into the trip before having to run a generator to charge the batteries.

I do not know what inverter/charger the TT has installed but would think it isn't the cats meow. Would like to upgrade that I would think as well as a battery bank that has just a little more run time. That's the ultimate goal.
The solar panel I have might do the trick and I will test that out on a camping trip next month. If we have sun...

[Logan X]

I would recommend upgrading to two six volt batteries wired in series. I can camp for three or more days with moderate energy use with two 6v’s.

Be careful with discharging the batteries until they are dead. This damages the batteries and makes them not hold a charge. You should not discharge flooded lead acid batteries more than 50% state of charge.

The 12v batteries that came with your trailer are most likely hybrid deep cycle/marine batteries. These are not true deep cycle batteries. If the battery has cold cranking amps (CCA) listed on the top, it is not a true deep cycle battery. A true deep cycle battery has amp hours (AH) listed on the top.

[92xj]

I'm thinking of going to 4 6volts instead of my two 12s and seeing what happens.

[Logan X]

You also may want to consider getting a good battery monitor that uses a shunt. With a shunt based monitor, you get extremely accurate information on the state of your batteries including the state of charge in %. This is very helpful to know how much power you are using, how much power you have left, and also when to charge.

This is what I use and I’m happy with it

https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Energ.../dp/B01BVQR0V8

And here is a video with more info about battery monitors and how I installed mine

https://youtu.be/tDJrtC_zRJM

[92xj]

Originally Posted by Logan X

You also may want to consider getting a good battery monitor that uses a shunt. With a shunt based monitor, you get extremely accurate information on the state of your batteries including the state of charge in %. This is very helpful to know how much power you are using, how much power you have left, and also when to charge.

This is what I use and I’m happy with it

https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Energ.../dp/B01BVQR0V8

And here is a video with more info about battery monitors and how I installed mine

https://youtu.be/tDJrtC_zRJM

Thanks!

You are running a single monitor and shunt for your dual 6 volt set up? So the monitor tells you info like it's reading a single 12 volt battery, correct?

Can you rig it for multiple batteries? If I end up running 4 6volts, would I need a second unit, one for each pair?

[Logan X]

Originally Posted by 92xj

Thanks!

You are running a single monitor and shunt for your dual 6 volt set up? So the monitor tells you info like it's reading a single 12 volt battery, correct?

Can you rig it for multiple batteries? If I end up running 4 6volts, would I need a second unit, one for each pair?

If you are running two six volt batteries they are wired in series to produce a 12v output. If you run four six volt batteries you wire them in series to get the 12v output and then connect the two sets of six volts in parallel to combine the amp hours. In series the voltage is combined and the amp hours stay the same. In parallel the voltage stays the same and the amp hours are combined.

In either configuration, you only need one monitor and one shunt. The negative battery cable from the entire bank of batteries goes to the shunt.

[Ken / Claudia]

I was in the same boat, a item that helps alot and can be cheap is a real voltage meter. I got 1 that plugs into the 12v socket near the TV. Now I know what the voltage is anytime. About 10 bucks.
Even 2 fairly new 12v will not last more than 1 or 2 days if you use the trailer as it is designed. After time even less.
I went with 2 6v batteries in 2019. Used them Elk hunting and never seen the voltage drop like the 2 12v batteries did. I use a 2000w genny to recharge. With the 12v it was still a problem. Not so with 2 6v. I did run the genny all night but, did not need to for the batteries to last. The genny is very quiet. The furnace makes more noise. I was also charging radios, phones, GPS units in the 110v outlets. Some needed up to 8 hours to get a full charge. So I just let the genny run all night. I need the genny to make coffee and cook in the micro wave. So, it runs til we leave in the morning and starts up again at dinner. Just top off gas tank each day. A 9 day trip, I used about 8 gals of gas.
Those 6v batteries weigh much more than 12v. Mine added 50 pounds to the tongue. With 4, you will be adding 100 lbs. Is that OK? I even welded up a extra support bar under the battery bracket. 2 6v battires fit in the same battery holder as the 12v battieries.
Again you have many choices, I just mentioned what worked for me and why.

[flybouy]

It doesn't matter the number of batteries as the monitor is reading the amps being used and the connected voltage so it see's 2 -12v in parallel or 2 - 6v in series as one big battery.

Two golf cart batteries will typically provide a larger amp hour discharge and survive more discharge/charge cycles than a combo deep cycle/starting battery.

[92xj]

Originally Posted by Logan X

If you are running two six volt batteries they are wired in series to produce a 12v output. If you run four six volt batteries you wire them in series to get the 12v output and then connect the two sets of six volts in parallel to combine the amp hours. In series the voltage is combined and the amp hours stay the same. In parallel the voltage stays the same and the amp hours are combined.

In either configuration, you only need one monitor and one shunt. The negative battery cable from the entire bank of batteries goes to the shunt.

Perfect.
Your diagram is exactly how I plan to do it. I hadn't thought about the monitor and shunt but what's another $150 to the project

[92xj]

Originally Posted by Ken / Claudia

I was in the same boat, a item that helps alot and can be cheap is a real voltage meter. I got 1 that plugs into the 12v socket near the TV. Now I know what the voltage is anytime. About 10 bucks.
Even 2 fairly new 12v will not last more than 1 or 2 days if you use the trailer as it is designed. After time even less.
I went with 2 6v batteries in 2019. Used them Elk hunting and never seen the voltage drop like the 2 12v batteries did. I use a 2000w genny to recharge. With the 12v it was still a problem. Not so with 2 6v. I did run the genny all night but, did not need to for the batteries to last. The genny is very quiet. The furnace makes more noise. I was also charging radios, phones, GPS units in the 110v outlets. Some needed up to 8 hours to get a full charge. So I just let the genny run all night. I need the genny to make coffee and cook in the micro wave. So, it runs til we leave in the morning and starts up again at dinner. Just top off gas tank each day. A 9 day trip, I used about 8 gals of gas.
Those 6v batteries weigh much more than 12v. Mine added 50 pounds to the tongue. With 4, you will be adding 100 lbs. Is that OK? I even welded up a extra support bar under the battery bracket. 2 6v battires fit in the same battery holder as the 12v battieries.
Again you have many choices, I just mentioned what worked for me and why.

Weight on the tongue wont be an issue. I went well above the recommendation on the weight distribution bars and have a few hundred pounds of excessive to use up if needed.

I plan to take the trailer to a fab shop, after buy the battery boxes I want and have them weld up a nice cradle to support the bottoms and up the side a little bit. Just like you, this will be in the elk woods a ton and take a beating from miles and miles of gravel road. I'd hate for the batteries to fall off.

[92xj]

As far as charging using the generator...
I have heard that it is better to buy a external multi stage charger that uses alligator clips on the batteries than to use the internal inverter that is used when plugging the generator in to the shore power cord.
Thoughts on that?
When and if I go to the 4 6v I sure don't want to have to run the generator for 10 hours to charge the batteries using the internal one if I can buy an external, plug it into the generator, clip onto the batteries and be charged in half the time and save from over charging.

[92xj]

and one more, any recommendations on 6 volt batteries?
Never been in the market for them, so not sure who/what is better than the other.
in my early stages of research, I am leaning towards https://ressupply.com/batteries-and-...looded-battery

[Logan X]

Just a few more thoughts, this is just my opinion based on my experience with my set up.

My set up is very similar to Ken’s. I have two 232 ah 6v batteries. When I dry camp, I use all the lights, furnace, water pump, etc and watch tv for up to 10 hours a day. All that usage, in 24 hours, only brings my two batteries down to 80% state of charge. I run my Honda 2k generator for and hour or an hour and a half when I make my morning coffee and that brings the batteries back up to the high 90s or 100%.

My suggestion would be to start out with two six volts and see how that does for you. But obviously, do what you like.

I wouldn’t worry about replacing the charger/converter. The OEM unit does a pretty good job in my opinion.

[Logan X]

Originally Posted by 92xj

and one more, any recommendations on 6 volt batteries?
Never been in the market for them, so not sure who/what is better than the other.
in my early stages of research, I am leaning towards https://ressupply.com/batteries-and-...looded-battery

Here are the batteries I use. I got them from a local shop.

https://www.usbattery.com/products/6...s/us-2200-xc2/

Costco GC2 batteries are probably going to be the most economical.

[92xj]

Originally Posted by Logan X

Just a few more thoughts, this is just my opinion based on my experience with my set up.

My set up is very similar to Ken’s. I have two 232 ah 6v batteries. When I dry camp, I use all the lights, furnace, water pump, etc and watch tv for up to 10 hours a day. All that usage, in 24 hours, only brings my two batteries down to 80% state of charge. I run my Honda 2k generator for and hour or an hour and a half when I make my morning coffee and that brings the batteries back up to the high 90s or 100%.

My suggestion would be to start out with two six volts and see how that does for you. But obviously, do what you like.

I wouldn’t worry about replacing the charger/converter. The OEM unit does a pretty good job in my opinion.

Awesome, thanks for the perspective. Sounds like you use your power a little more than we do and are lasting longer than my current setup. We haven't used the TV yet, but I think, in our setup the generator has to be running or hooked up to shore power.
Lights, water pump and heater to pamper the wife and kids is what's killing me.

[Logan X]

Originally Posted by 92xj

Awesome, thanks for the perspective. Sounds like you use your power a little more than we do and are lasting longer than my current setup. We haven't used the TV yet, but I think, in our setup the generator has to be running or hooked up to shore power.
Lights, water pump and heater to pamper the wife and kids is what's killing me.

I use a small inverter plugged into the 12v outlet by the tv to run my tv and Apple TV, using the batteries.

Disclaimer-this inverter is 300 watts and the 12v outlet is not set up for that much power. The TV is ok but a hairdryer would be bad.

https://www.amazon.com/BESTEK-300Wat.../dp/B07KQ4Q2L5

[92xj]

Gotcha. Thanks for your help and advice.
I'm sure I'll have more questions once I dive deeper into this hole.

[chuckster57]

Charging the batteries using a stand alone charger plugged into the gen vs. using the onboard converter:

If your onboard converter is a newer 3 stage “smart converter” it will supply more amps if the batteries are drained. If it’s the usual converter then it will only supply up to 5A.

Easy to test using an amp gauge while plugged into shore power. If your only getting like 5A then I would use the charger hooked to the batteries and plugged into the gen.

[flybouy]

He's listed his unit as a 2019 Cougar so he should have a 3 stage charger.

[92xj]

Originally Posted by flybouy

He's listed his unit as a 2019 Cougar so he should have a 3 stage charger.

Correct, 2019 25BHSWE. I cant find any detailed spec sheet on the keystone webpage that states what charger is factory installed. I can try and look when I get home.


The Costco 6volt battery sure is hated by the reviewers, any other recommendations? Or any brands to stay away from when I head to the local auto parts stores?