Improving the number of 15amp circuits in the RV

[cag]

I was saddened to learn that all of the outlets in my Montana High Country are one single 15 amp circuit. REALLY, 50 Amp service and I get only 15 Amps to use.

What have people done to make this more usable? Can you split up the existing circuit to make more?

I want to run 2 1500 watt heaters which you can't do with the silly setup, unless I plug in an extension cord to the Washer/Dryer plugs.

[JRTJH]

If there are any empty spaces on your power distribution panel, you can wire additional 15 amp circuits (use 14 ga ROMEX) by adding a new circuit breaker and running the ROMEX to an outlet location of your choice. If there are no empty spaces, you'll need to do some "investigating" to determine where to "split the service (50 amps on each side) and which circuit to "piggyback from" to locate service on a "lesser used circuit breaker".

[rhagfo]

Better yet add a 20 amp circuit with 12 gauge wire for your heaters!
Best solution is to install the RV Comfort Systems “Cheap Heat” system. This allows you to use your furnace on gas or electric will put it 5,000 watts of heat on 50 amp connection or 1,800 watts on a 30 amp connection.

[cag]

Thanks for the replies.

I noticed that there is a wider 20 amp for the dryer.. so I could make that one a skinny one like the rest and I would gain a spot.

I found that there are GFI and Recpt labels. So just maybe there are at least 2 plug circuits. Now to figure out which plugs are which. Labeling would have been nice...ugh I believe in houses you have to put the little GFI sticker on all protected outlets.

We have a heat pump which should work most of the time in Western Washington... normal 50-40 during the winter with some times below below freezing.

I am trying to have 2 1500w heaters, one in the living space and one in the bedroom. I plugged in the bedroom one into the washer or dryer... no labeling there. I am also checking the power conditioner to see if the legs are balanced. I don't have full 50 amp, I had a dryer (30 amp) plug which I wired to an RV plug so I have 2 30 amp circuits but that should be plenty.

Still can't believe they saved a little money by using a single GFI in the bathroom. Thinking a little national code wouldn't be bad for RVs.

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by cag

I noticed that there is a wider 20 amp for the dryer.. so I could make that one a skinny one like the rest and I would gain a spot.

I don't have any experience with RV dryers, but household dryers are normally 240V, and circuit breakers that are extra wide are often made so to occupy both legs of the feed and pull 240V – so you may not be able to skinnify that breaker.

Originally Posted by cag

I found that there are GFI and Recpt labels. So just maybe there are at least 2 plug circuits. Now to figure out which plugs are which. Labeling would have been nice...
Still can't believe they saved a little money by using a single GFI in the bathroom. Thinking a little national code wouldn't be bad for RVs.

Instead of putting a GFI breaker in the breaker box, which is expensive, you put a GFI outlet first in the chain, then drive all the other outlets that have to be GFI protected off that one. This is done in residences all the time, and is perfectly amenable to code.

It's a safe assumption that the outlets on the GFI circuit are precisely and only those outlets required to be on a GFI circuit -- that is, anything within arm's reach of water, like a kitchen or bathroom, or any of them outdoors.

You can get a plug-in GFI tester from Harbor Freight for peanuts, turn off the breaker labeled GFI, then stick it in various outlets to see which ones are off and which ones are on. Then you can turn the breaker back on, plug the tester into the various outlets, and press the little button to make sure that the GFI feature works on each of those outlets.

[cag]

Thanks for the idea. I am aware of doing the GFI plug and then putting the others on after it. They did that in the RV. The surprise was when I was turning off breakers was one plug by the stove opposite the sink (on an island) wasn't GFI. So inside there appear to be 2 circuits, one GFI and one not.

So , I have 2 electric heaters. One in the bedroom, on the Dryer plug circuit another in the dining area that is on the non-GFI circuit. Just have to remember to turn off the heater in the dining when I want to use the electric teapot.

[DocP]

Originally Posted by cag

Thanks for the idea. I am aware of doing the GFI plug and then putting the others on after it. They did that in the RV. The surprise was when I was turning off breakers was one plug by the stove opposite the sink (on an island) wasn't GFI. So inside there appear to be 2 circuits, one GFI and one not.

So , I have 2 electric heaters. One in the bedroom, on the Dryer plug circuit another in the dining area that is on the non-GFI circuit. Just have to remember to turn off the heater in the dining when I want to use the electric teapot.

Just a thought, but one of the first mods I do on each camper I have bought is to add a dedicated 20 amp line from the campground pedestal (here's an example: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1). I then add several surface-mount receptacles in the camper that are tied into this line. It is from these outlets that I run my heaters. Works for me.

[cag]

Good idea, hadn't thought of that. Not sure if I need to add another line though. I have 240V 30 Amp so I seem to have plenty of amps to work with, the normal power is 50 Amp. So I could upgrade my plug at the Barn to be 50 Amps, since that is on a 60 Amp circuit. But adding another circuit just for the heaters seems like a good idea. The belly is all covered though so this might have to wait until next summer before I pull that off.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by cag

I was saddened to learn that all of the outlets in my Montana High Country are one single 15 amp circuit. REALLY, 50 Amp service and I get only 15 Amps to use.

What have people done to make this more usable? Can you split up the existing circuit to make more?

I want to run 2 1500 watt heaters which you can't do with the silly setup, unless I plug in an extension cord to the Washer/Dryer plugs.

I'm not sure what you have in your trailer but in my Cougar High Country I have 8 AC breakers not counting the incoming 50A double pole. 2 are for the ACs, one for the fireplace and the rest spread among the various AC components in the trailer. 8 in a 300? sq. ft. trailer - that's a lot. I can run my fireplace (1500w) and 2 1500w heaters without issue (only once - one in bdrm, one in bath for about an hour).

As has been suggested you need an outlet tester and do some "sleuthing". I gave up on trying to remember what fed what so just did what I suggested, labeled each breaker with 1,2,3 etc., tested each circuit and labeled each outlet with a corresponding 1,2,3 etc. as well.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by DocP

Just a thought, but one of the first mods I do on each camper I have bought is to add a dedicated 20 amp line from the campground pedestal (here's an example: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1). I then add several surface-mount receptacles in the camper that are tied into this line. It is from these outlets that I run my heaters. Works for me.

When you start trying to find an extension cord in the 20A configuration of that plug you show from Amazon, not sure you will have a lot of luck. Marinco makes a 15A identical plug you can use a standard outdoor heavy duty extension cord with. I added a 15A Marinco outdoor female inlet on the back of my camper and tied it directly to my microwave which used to blow the main when the A/C was on along with most anything else. I use a standard outdoor extension cord.

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

When you start trying to find an extension cord in the 20A configuration of that plug you show from Amazon, not sure you will have a lot of luck.

https://www.amazon.com/Conntek-20520.../dp/B00KC108K4

[DocP]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

When you start trying to find an extension cord in the 20A configuration of that plug you show from Amazon, not sure you will have a lot of luck. Marinco makes a 15A identical plug you can use a standard outdoor heavy duty extension cord with. I added a 15A Marinco outdoor female inlet on the back of my camper and tied it directly to my microwave which used to blow the main when the A/C was on along with most anything else. I use a standard outdoor extension cord.

I agree about the 15A Marinco, but I guess I opted for overkill!

Here is what I bought:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I also have one of these around in the event I only have access to a 15 amp line:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by DocP

I agree about the 15A Marinco, but I guess I opted for overkill!

Here is what I bought:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I also have one of these around in the event I only have access to a 15 amp line:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I don't recall ever seeing the 20A mail plug being able to be used on a pedestal. Almost all have 20A breakers but use 15A outlets. That is why I went with 15A.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by DocP

I agree about the 15A Marinco, but I guess I opted for overkill!

Here is what I bought:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I also have one of these around in the event I only have access to a 15 amp line:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I believe if you look you can find 12/3 extension cords with 15 amp ends on them.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

I believe if you look you can find 12/3 extension cords with 15 amp ends on them.

COSTCO has them, two 25' 12/3 yellow extension cords with 15 amp lighted plugs. When I bought mine, they were $24.99 for two, that's $12.50 each. Good bargain, I thought.

Also available on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/2883-Heavy-Du...s%2C214&sr=8-2 but at "double the price".....

[Old soldier]

Do NOT use 14 gauge wire! 14 gauge is only approved for lighting circuits. Use 12 gauge braided, not Romx SOLID CORE WIRE. If you only plug in lighting 14 gauge is OK. But heaters will overheat 14 gauge wire. Totally unsafe to do as advised here. Romex, with solid core, can vibrate and break from campers motion...especially if you make any sharp bends. If you intend to play in wiring, go to Vintage Camper Supply: they the industry standard book on working with 12 volt (and all other) wiring. Do not follow advice from unknown sources...go to a manual or better yet go to an RV technician.

[opienva1]

I added a plug below the microwave the uses the same circuit as the microwave.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Old soldier

Do NOT use 14 gauge wire! 14 gauge is only approved for lighting circuits. Use 12 gauge braided, not Romx SOLID CORE WIRE. If you only plug in lighting 14 gauge is OK. But heaters will overheat 14 gauge wire. Totally unsafe to do as advised here. Romex, with solid core, can vibrate and break from campers motion...especially if you make any sharp bends. If you intend to play in wiring, go to Vintage Camper Supply: they the industry standard book on working with 12 volt (and all other) wiring. Do not follow advice from unknown sources...go to a manual or better yet go to an RV technician.

EVERY (that means all of them) that I've seen that was built after 1972 has used ROMEX for all 120VAC wiring runs. I haven't seen one (that means none) that have stranded wire on the 20 amp or 15 amp AC circuits. Every one that I've seen uses 14 ga ROMEX on 15 amp breakers and 12 ga ROMEX on 20 amp breakers. They are ALL (again, every one of them) are built to industry standards (RVIA).

Where are you getting your information that states it is unsafe to use 14 ga ROMEX in a heating circuit? If that's true, then my home, my RV and every home and RV in this area is unsafe ????? Do you have any references available????

[sourdough]

This, or something like this, may be where old soldier got the part about light fixtures;

https://www.cerrowire.com/products/r...ations-charts/

If so, just go down to the next portion and it says that 14ga. wire will carry 15A. That is a LOT of light bulbs, especially LED. My take is that the wire carries 15A of "whatever", the first section is just a generalization of uses for it.

[razahoryin]

Originally Posted by cag

I was saddened to learn that all of the outlets in my Montana High Country are one single 15 amp circuit. REALLY, 50 Amp service and I get only 15 Amps to use.

What have people done to make this more usable? Can you split up the existing circuit to make more?

I want to run 2 1500 watt heaters which you can't do with the silly setup, unless I plug in an extension cord to the Washer/Dryer plugs.

I had the same issue.
your 50 amp panel has load-1 and load-2
its best to determine that first and understanding your electrical panel.

I had the same issue most house outlets were 1 circuit.
if you are adding circuits I would suggest the new circuits are on load-2 or opposite side of where the current outlets are connected on the power panel.

If you have a inverter or fireplace that should be considered as well as your electric water heater to distribute the load evenly on the panel. remember when on 50 amp circuit you are receiving 100 amps/50 per side. when you use a dog bone to share a 30 amp connection to a 50 amp panel all you are getting is 30 amps total shared across the panel that is used to getting 100 amps total.

I have added circuits for use when powered by 50 amps to the load 2 side of the bus where my fireplace and water heater are as well. When I dry camp or only have 30 amps its easier to load shed (turn off load 2) and let the inverter and solar assist the other essential circuits.

As far as doing it your self, it can be done depending on your technical ability. I prefer to do my own repairs. I have been disappointed too many times by rv repair technicians and end up doing the work over again. You will need a wiring plan before you start routing wires and cutting holes. Yes no less then 12 gage wire 14 Gage wire is not safe for those kind of loads, as far as twisted wire or solid I don't have a recommendation, my Montana came from the factory with solid core wiring.

Cheers