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Old 04-27-2021, 09:02 PM   #1
MXRacer
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2021 Keystone Cougar TT 25 RDS 12V issue

Bought brand new 2021 Keystone Cougar TT 25RDS and have a baffling electrical issue. I'm over 8 hours from the dealer I purchased from and am trying to solve an electrical gremlin:

When I'm plugged in to shore power, everything works fine. When I run on battery only, all 12V powered items die within minutes. I've checked the battery, inverter, converter, all fuses, and control panel. Everything is brand new and tests fine. At the battery, I get 12.6 volts but when I check the battery wires coming into the main fuse/breaker panel inside the coach, the voltage is 1.4.

Question: what would cause a voltage drop from the battery to the circuit board (from 12.6 to 1.4?) I've had an RV tech look at it four times now and he can't find the problem. Unfortunately, I don't really want to pull the trailer over 8 hours to have the selling dealer look at it. Any ideas?
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Old 04-27-2021, 09:19 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by MXRacer View Post
Bought brand new 2021 Keystone Cougar TT 25RDS and have a baffling electrical issue. I'm over 8 hours from the dealer I purchased from and am trying to solve an electrical gremlin:

When I'm plugged in to shore power, everything works fine. When I run on battery only, all 12V powered items die within minutes. I've checked the battery, inverter, converter, all fuses, and control panel. Everything is brand new and tests fine. At the battery, I get 12.6 volts but when I check the battery wires coming into the main fuse/breaker panel inside the coach, the voltage is 1.4.

Question: what would cause a voltage drop from the battery to the circuit board (from 12.6 to 1.4?) I've had an RV tech look at it four times now and he can't find the problem. Unfortunately, I don't really want to pull the trailer over 8 hours to have the selling dealer look at it. Any ideas?

Do you have a battery disconnect.
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Old 04-27-2021, 09:42 PM   #3
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Either a battery disconnect in the "disconnected" position of your dealer cheaped out & installed a cheapo hybrid starting battery that's already toast.
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Old 04-27-2021, 09:49 PM   #4
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Yes I do. The disconnect is in the connected position and I made sure to try it both ways to test that the disconnect is either engaged or disengaged.
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Old 04-27-2021, 09:52 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by travelin texans View Post
Either a battery disconnect in the "disconnected" position of your dealer cheaped out & installed a cheapo hybrid starting battery that's already toast.
So, I already ruled that out by purchasing a new battery that is tested and fully charged. Two batteries so far and the result is the same.....not getting full 12V into the trailer.
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Old 04-28-2021, 04:32 AM   #6
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Need some clarification. The statment "When I'm plugged in to shore power, everything works fine. When I run on battery only, all 12V powered items die within minutes." Does everything 12 vdc work fine and the battery dies within minutes and require a recharge?

This statement "At the battery, I get 12.6 volts but when I check the battery wires coming into the main fuse/breaker panel inside the coach, the voltage is 1.4." contradicts the the previous one so I'm confused.
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Old 04-28-2021, 04:39 AM   #7
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There should be 1 or 2 auto reset breakers within 18" of the battery... what does the voltage read on either pole of each... If not 12+ volts on both; the breaker is bad and need replaced.
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Old 04-28-2021, 05:24 AM   #8
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The mini-breakers that Javi is talking about are mounted on the bulkhead, just behind the tongue A-frame on your trailer. If you follow the red wire from the battery + post, it will go "directly to the first of two or three mini-breakers"...

They look like this photo....

That said, if I read your symptoms correctly, when you first unplug from shore power, the 12 VDC trailer components work but within minutes, they stop working and you read 1.4 VDC at the fuse buss bar ??? What do you read at the fuse buss bar "immediately on pulling the shore power plug" ???

If there is 12.6 VDC at the buss bar "immediately on disconnecting, it seems that the wiring is intact and OK.... The "good voltage that quickly falls to 1.4 VDC" is indicative of a battery issue not a wiring issue... Open the access door on the trailer power center. Inside you'll find 120VAC circuit breakers on the left side and 12VDC fuses on the right side (in a vertical row)... BETWEEN the CB's and the fuses, you'll see two 40 amp RED fuses. Check them carefully. Based on the "quickly falling voltage" it sounds like the battery is not charging and is "at the point that with no load, it's reading 12.6 volts and within a minute, the voltage drops. To confirm this, not only check the voltage "at the fuse buss bar" but also confirm the battery output "at the battery terminals"... They should be the same voltage, assuming the wiring is functional.....

To me, it sounds like a battery failure not a wiring failure (if those RED fuses are OK)...

Here's the photo of the mini-breakers:
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Old 04-28-2021, 06:45 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by flybouy View Post
Need some clarification. The statment "When I'm plugged in to shore power, everything works fine. When I run on battery only, all 12V powered items die within minutes." Does everything 12 vdc work fine and the battery dies within minutes and require a recharge?

This statement "At the battery, I get 12.6 volts but when I check the battery wires coming into the main fuse/breaker panel inside the coach, the voltage is 1.4." contradicts the the previous one so I'm confused.
Yes. The In Command monitor, coach lights, electric tongue jack, slide, etc. works while on shore power. When operating on 12 vdc only, the In Command system, lights, etc. go out within minutes. The odd thing is that the battery is fully charged. The battery itself has 12.6 volts, but when I take a reading on the main panel where the battery wires connect, it reads around 1.5 volts. So, where can the loss be occurring between the fully charged battery and the mainn panel?

Everything going dead while on 12Vdc would lead me to believe that the battery needs to be charged, but the battery is fully charged. This is the mystery.
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Old 04-28-2021, 06:55 AM   #10
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I’m wondering your DC board has another fuse off to the left that is blown.
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Old 04-28-2021, 06:59 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
The mini-breakers that Javi is talking about are mounted on the bulkhead, just behind the tongue A-frame on your trailer. If you follow the red wire from the battery + post, it will go "directly to the first of two or three mini-breakers"...

They look like this photo....

That said, if I read your symptoms correctly, when you first unplug from shore power, the 12 VDC trailer components work but within minutes, they stop working and you read 1.4 VDC at the fuse buss bar ??? What do you read at the fuse buss bar "immediately on pulling the shore power plug" ???

If there is 12.6 VDC at the buss bar "immediately on disconnecting, it seems that the wiring is intact and OK.... The "good voltage that quickly falls to 1.4 VDC" is indicative of a battery issue not a wiring issue... Open the access door on the trailer power center. Inside you'll find 120VAC circuit breakers on the left side and 12VDC fuses on the right side (in a vertical row)... BETWEEN the CB's and the fuses, you'll see two 40 amp RED fuses. Check them carefully. Based on the "quickly falling voltage" it sounds like the battery is not charging and is "at the point that with no load, it's reading 12.6 volts and within a minute, the voltage drops. To confirm this, not only check the voltage "at the fuse buss bar" but also confirm the battery output "at the battery terminals"... They should be the same voltage, assuming the wiring is functional.....

To me, it sounds like a battery failure not a wiring failure (if those RED fuses are OK)...

Here's the photo of the mini-breakers:
You interpret my gibberish perfectly. Here is a picture of my main board. I also looked behind this panel and checked the fuses on the converter. It sounds like you are pinpointing the potential problem. Logic tells me it has to be something between the battery and the circuit board that is limiting the power without being shorted.

Also FYI, it has the Zamp OTG solar system, Xantrex Freedom X inverter, and one AC.
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Old 04-28-2021, 07:35 AM   #12
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You interpret my gibberish perfectly. Here is a picture of my main board. I also looked behind this panel and checked the fuses on the converter. It sounds like you are pinpointing the potential problem. Logic tells me it has to be something between the battery and the circuit board that is limiting the power without being shorted.

Also FYI, it has the Zamp OTG solar system, Xantrex Freedom X inverter, and one AC.
I know absolutely nothing about the OTG system but I do know how to chase a wire from the battery to the fuse block..

And the first place I always look is those pesky little auto reset breakers.. and the battery cutoff if equipped then the ground...
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Old 04-28-2021, 07:36 AM   #13
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I made an error when I stated your reverse polarity fuses are on the faceplate of your power center. Your "RED" fuses are actually "GREEN" fuses and are the ones mounted on the end of your converter.... Check them carefully, if the battery positive terminal is incorrectly connected or touches ground, even momentarily, those fuses will "blow" to protect the converter from damage. Obviously the most common reason for them to "blow" is connecting the battery in reverse. On your system, if you have "red/black" battery cables, the red is POS and the black is NEG... On the other hand, if your battery cables are "black/white" then the black is POS and the white is NEG...

Note that the black cable can be attached to either the POS or the NEG battery terminal, depending on the year of the trailer and the colors of the battery cables... So, it's more common than you'd think to find the battery incorrectly connected....

ADDED: Like Javi posted, I'd pay special attention to those DC mini-breakers connected to the battery terminal. They are open to rain/moisture and they can corrode internally, causing exactly the problem you're having. After troubleshooting the mini-breaker, if it does not have 12.6VDC on both terminals (when checked from terminal to ground) The "easy way to check them" is to "MOMENTARILY" use a jumper wire and short between the two terminals to see if the trailer 12 volt system starts to work....

REMEMBER: Shorting out the mini-breaker is the same thing as putting a penny behind an old screw in fuse or using a nail to bypass a plug-in fuse. So, MOMENTARILY to see if the lights work, then remove it, go buy a replacement and replace it properly.
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Old 04-28-2021, 08:55 AM   #14
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Sorry to hear of your problem. Please keep posting about what you find and the eventual (I have no doubt) solution.
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Old 04-28-2021, 11:08 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
I made an error when I stated your reverse polarity fuses are on the faceplate of your power center. Your "RED" fuses are actually "GREEN" fuses and are the ones mounted on the end of your converter.... Check them carefully, if the battery positive terminal is incorrectly connected or touches ground, even momentarily, those fuses will "blow" to protect the converter from damage. Obviously the most common reason for them to "blow" is connecting the battery in reverse. On your system, if you have "red/black" battery cables, the red is POS and the black is NEG... On the other hand, if your battery cables are "black/white" then the black is POS and the white is NEG...

Note that the black cable can be attached to either the POS or the NEG battery terminal, depending on the year of the trailer and the colors of the battery cables... So, it's more common than you'd think to find the battery incorrectly connected....

ADDED: Like Javi posted, I'd pay special attention to those DC mini-breakers connected to the battery terminal. They are open to rain/moisture and they can corrode internally, causing exactly the problem you're having. After troubleshooting the mini-breaker, if it does not have 12.6VDC on both terminals (when checked from terminal to ground) The "easy way to check them" is to "MOMENTARILY" use a jumper wire and short between the two terminals to see if the trailer 12 volt system starts to work....

REMEMBER: Shorting out the mini-breaker is the same thing as putting a penny behind an old screw in fuse or using a nail to bypass a plug-in fuse. So, MOMENTARILY to see if the lights work, then remove it, go buy a replacement and replace it properly.
Great advice from all of you. Thanks! I will check it out tonight after work and report back. Despite these issues, I still think I have a quality trailer and looking forward to many good trips to the races in it.
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Old 04-28-2021, 01:29 PM   #16
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Great advice from all of you. Thanks! I will check it out tonight after work and report back. Despite these issues, I still think I have a quality trailer and looking forward to many good trips to the races in it.
And from what I've just been through, I'll bet you ten bucks it's your 50 amp auto reset breaker. Check to see if your slide or front power jack works okay, as those are on a different breaker. And like Javi and JRTJH mentioned, super easy to test those breakers.
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Old 04-28-2021, 01:32 PM   #17
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And from what I've just been through, I'll bet you ten bucks it's your 50 amp auto reset breaker. Check to see if your slide or front power jack works okay, as those are on a different breaker. And like Javi and JRTJH mentioned, super easy to test those breakers.
Neither the slide nor the jack work under 12Vdc power.
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Old 04-28-2021, 01:35 PM   #18
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Neither the slide nor the jack work under 12Vdc power.
Did you locate your auto reset breakers? I looked up your RV and it's pretty close to mine.
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Old 04-28-2021, 01:46 PM   #19
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Did you locate your auto reset breakers? I looked up your RV and it's pretty close to mine.
Not yet. Can you describe exactly where these are? I can visualize the battery tray and the strands of wire on the inner frame of the driver's side tongue. Are these breakers just under the driver's side body of the trailer on the inside of the frame?
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Old 04-28-2021, 02:07 PM   #20
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Not yet. Can you describe exactly where these are? I can visualize the battery tray and the strands of wire on the inner frame of the driver's side tongue. Are these breakers just under the driver's side body of the trailer on the inside of the frame?
Yes, those are the ones. I have two on mine. One is a 50 amp and the other is a 30 amp. Unless they are wiring them differently now, the 30 amp should be connected to your power jack and the other wire goes to the slide. The 50 amp goes to your fuse panel in the RV.

Do you have a multi-meter or test light?
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