Mountain Towing

[Global Driver]

Thank you all for the intel and insight. I’m on the hunt for a unicorn. 2015or newer GMC diesel with less than 50,000 miles and under $50,000.

Found a beautiful one here close but it was an up north truck and had the cancerous rust all over it.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by Global Driver

Thank you all for the intel and insight. I’m on the hunt for a unicorn. GMC diesel with less than 50,000 miles and under $50,000.

Found a beautiful one here close but it was an up north truck and had the cancerous rust all over it.

Good for you!.. I have to warn you..once you switch to diesel it’s hard to ever go back

[shrtmem]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

You might consider opening your driver door and getting your payload number.

omg, i thought you were gonna say, you might consider opening your driver door and throwing out a big boulder like Fred Flintstone to stop your rig when going down the pass!

[firestation12]

Originally Posted by flybouy

Unless something has changed in physics a normally aspirated engine will loose HP due to a rise in elevation, fuel injection does not alter this. A naturally aspirated engine that's fuel injected will burn cleaner as the air is thinner the fuel is reduced to maintain the correct fuel/air ratio. Less air means less fuel means less power.

Now if an engine is turbo charged or has a supercharger than that's a different story. Air charger systems were born from the airplane industry to keep the engines producing high power at higher altitudes. Here's one calculator you can use to find the relationship. http://www.wallaceracing.com/braking-hp.php

This statement is in agreement with what I was taught in pilot training. The fuel injection system will indeed lean the mixture as the air thins at altitude, but unless the engine is turbo'd or supercharged, you will loose 3% per 1,000 feet of altitude. Expect 30% drop in HP at 10,000 feet of elevation.

[AZWANDERERS]

Lots of sage wisdom and advice. We've put in excess of 30k miles on our rig in the last two years all over the country but a lot of it in the west. I've pulled more passes than I can count and I don't go looking for them. Make sure your tow vehicle and rv are mechanically sound. Tires aired up to the rating stated on the tire (I have Sailuns after a flat in Raleigh - lucked out, right at an exit, guy stopped to help, truck tire center in town and got a great deal on the tires plus some cake for an office birthday). Take it slow uphill and down - following a semi (I know it's painful) will keep you real slow. Just use your engine brake - I hardly ever use my brakes.

[EMTPRescue]

Yup you are correct. Physics have not changed. All good information. That is why I referred to naturally asperated vrs Turbo of Super charged engines. Born out of WWII combat needs to get the aircraft up to higher altitudes which gave the higher flyer a combat advantage. Thanks for weighing in. Bottom line, towing in the rocks is different with more challenges that everyone needs to be aware of so you don't get nipped in the backside.

[LERD]

Originally Posted by jasin1

Your mechanical diesel will probably still be chugging along for another 30 years ...my space shuttle designed environmental diesel will probably have a myriad of sensor failures by then

So many have said "get a diesel!" I know it's better. But I am worried about very long term ownership! Out of warranty and it breaks ....

When the government and the EPA got involved, I don't think it worked out well for the consumer. It's still not decided, but I'm thinking of Ford's F350 with the 7.3l gas and 4:30 gears. I don't plan on pulling more than 15k lbs. We are planning on traveling about 6-7 months, but not mile after mile endlessly. I've been picking a lot of brains from both sides.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by LERD

So many have said "get a diesel!" I know it's better. But I am worried about very long term ownership! Out of warranty and it breaks ....

When the government and the EPA got involved, I don't think it worked out well for the consumer. It's still not decided, but I'm thinking of Ford's F350 with the 7.3l gas and 4:30 gears. I don't plan on pulling more than 15k lbs. We are planning on traveling about 6-7 months, but not mile after mile endlessly. I've been picking a lot of brains from both sides.

I know what you mean... with modern diesels it’s good when they have a warranty .. after that and it can get expensive ..that’s when you need a good private diesel repair shop ..... I’ve heard some good things about that new 7.3 gas engine

[flybouy]

Tell what's cheap to get fixed on a modern gas engine. Yes IF a diesel has a major issue but with today's reliability a correctly DRIVEN and Maintained diesel isn't a roll of the dice. I'm a "Right tool for the job " type myself. I don't use a screwdriver for a prybar or a chisel. Imo a gasser can't compete with a diesel for towing heavy trailers. Yes, in recent years they have improved but I haven't seen or read about gassers going 200-300K hauling a large trailer yet.

Again, JMHO.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by flybouy

Tell what's cheap to get fixed on a modern gas engine. Yes IF a diesel has a major issue but with today's reliability a correctly DRIVEN and Maintained diesel isn't a roll of the dice. I'm a "Right tool for the job " type myself. I don't use a screwdriver for a prybar or a chisel. Imo a gasser can't compete with a diesel for towing heavy trailers. Yes, in recent years they have improved but I haven't seen or read about gassers going 200-300K hauling a large trailer yet.

Again, JMHO.

As in most things, there are various caveats to anything...including using a diesel truck to pull a mid/heavyweight RV. If the truck can pull it, and carry it, then the only thing a diesel has going for it is longevity and better pulling power. If someone, like me, gets rid of a truck at no more than 90k and preferably about 50k, the longevity is of no consequence which then makes that 10-11k premium up front non digestible. If a person wants to run 14k+ a diesel should be strongly considered. I used to say 10-12k would definitely require a diesel but as you mentioned, the improvements in the engines, and especially the trannys, has upped that IMO.

[Jim2366]

I have had two suburban's the first was a 1500 5.7 gas and pulled a popup camper all over the Appalachian Mountains loaded with 5 kids and a dog. We then got another Suburban that was a 2500 with a 454 and pulled a travel trailer. It weighed around 7,000 lbs. We drove to from New Mexico up through the pass above Chama into Colorado. My wife grew up in Colorado Springs and Canyon City, we had a lot of family reunions there and pulled the RV with the Suburban 2500 454 and never had a problem except for the mpg broke the bank.

I did not even know about payload, but when the kids grew up I got pickups. Diesels get better mpg and pull more.

[jfk69]

Originally Posted by sourdough

As in most things, there are various caveats to anything...including using a diesel truck to pull a mid/heavyweight RV. If the truck can pull it, and carry it, then the only thing a diesel has going for it is longevity and better pulling power. If someone, like me, gets rid of a truck at no more than 90k and preferably about 50k, the longevity is of no consequence which then makes that 10-11k premium up front non digestible. If a person wants to run 14k+ a diesel should be strongly considered. I used to say 10-12k would definitely require a diesel but as you mentioned, the improvements in the engines, and especially the trannys, has upped that IMO.

You get the premium back on the backside. Price used gassers versus diesels. Nothing to digest. I never wanted a diesel, but after pulling with my current truck, I like it. With that said, if I’d have found a used gasser with the options and gearing I wanted I would have grabbed it. The thing is, not many gassers are built right to truly tow the way most of us need.

[markcee]

Originally Posted by Global Driver

Thank you all for the intel and insight. I’m on the hunt for a unicorn. 2015or newer GMC diesel with less than 50,000 miles and under $50,000.

Found a beautiful one here close but it was an up north truck and had the cancerous rust all over it.

Are Ford's out of the question? Here is what sounds like a good deal on a '17 PSD 1-ton with 34K miles:

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...Type=spotlight

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by markcee

Are Ford's out of the question? Here is what sounds like a good deal on a '17 PSD 1-ton with 34K miles:

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...Type=spotlight

Depends on who you ask, most folks will tell you to absolutly buy the brand they own. When there's brand loyalty it can be difficult to get a objective opinion all the time. From what I've read I don't see much difference in the "bid 3". I'd take the "I hade a 5 yr old brand A and bought a new brand B". That's not a fair comparison. IMHO the guy's that own brand A and say " avoid brnd A between these model years because they changed componet X and it didn't work well" are the most credible and useful.

[EMTPRescue]

If a person is buying a truck solely for the purpose of towing big loads and they can afford the premium price then Diesel in my mind, is the only way to go.

Why do you not see a single gasoline engine in the industrial engine world. There isn't a Kenworth, Pete, Volvo or Mack going down the road with anything other than diesel technology.

Are they more expensive to buy? Yup. Do they on average cost more to repair? Yup Do they need to be taken care of more diligently then a gasser. Yup. Are they far more robust in the build? Yup. If taken care of should they last much longer than a gasser? Yup. Should you expect to see a need to repair a diesel as frequently as the same sized gasser trying to do the same job? Absolutely not!

We had a 2001 Chev Silverado 2500HD with a monster 8.1ltr gasser before this truck. The Allison 6 speed and rear end gearing were the same as the 09 Dmax we now own so only difference was the engine. We had a much lighter TT at that point 10,000lb GVWR. The 8.1 did the job but it hunted for gears consistently and our average fuel consumption while towing was 9mpg. The best I could get empty on the highway was 18mpg.We then bought the 09 Dmax that we still own today. No more hunting for gears. Chuggs along all day at 1750rpm. No more 2700 - 5000 rpm that the gasser had to do. Up hill, down hill and around the hill at an average of 13mpg on quite often what is cheaper fuel and 27mpg empty on the highway.

I have conducted some mods to the truck. DPF gone. EGR blocked and over written. Cat converter gone. Full turbo back 6" exhaust with high flow muffler. Custom ECM/TCM permanent tune to take full advantage of the performance modes.

Simply put, for the same job, the diesel is far superior, stronger, cooler, more fuel efficient, quieter and honestly, far more relaxing to drive because the engine is doing the job so well I have less to think about .

Now that we have our 41' fifther, there is no way I would want to tow it with that 8.1 or any other gasser. And yes, I had the 8.1 tricked out as well.

Diesel technology is a far superior method of developing power. It just is.

Just my humble but quite experienced Canuck opinion of course.

Hope this helps

[EMTPRescue]

markcee, just be careful with buying a used Ford. I am not certain what years they were, but Ford had a huge challenge transitioning from the Direct Injection International Harvester diesel engine that they used for many years. When they first introduced there own iteration of the Power Stroke Diesel, they had big problems with what I have been told was the turbo chargers over boosting and head bolts expanding under load which resulted in blown head gaskets and sometimes the engines grenading.

Look at how often Ford changed the PS engine design. It was far more often than either GM or Dodge.

If the engines were left stock the problems apparently seldom developed but put any sort of after market tune into the ECM, increase the boost then watch out.

Ford built the engines reportedly at close to their max capability. Accordingly, they were very intolerant of any sort of performance enhancements particularly as it relates to increased boost pressures.

The Dmax can be safely performance enhanced and the Cummins diesel in the Dodge, can be tuned to the sun and back.

Just do your research and you should be fine.

Hope this helps

[EMTPRescue]

Markcee, I forgot to mention but the truck in North America is unique right now.

Because your green back is worth about 35% more than our Canuck Peso, most newer, low K trucks leave Canada as soon as they hit the wholesale or dealer market.

Because a truck up here costs the same, in other words 50K up here can buy the same truck as 50K down there the wholesalers take advantage of the difference in the value of the dollars. They gobble up as many good trucks as they can find by offering a premium price for it in Canadian dollars. They then export them to the US where they get the same US dollar for the truck but as they paid for it with Canadian dollars that are valued at 35% less, they get a tidy profit on the truck by virtue of the exchange rate.

Also if you are buying a comparatively newer used truck that reportedly still has a portion of the manufacturers warranty on it, make certain the manufacturer will honor the remaining warranty. Email the manufacturer and get it wiring. Don't trust the salesman or the Dealership.

GM is reportedly very sticky on cross boarder warranty claims.

Caveat emptor!

[jfk69]

Originally Posted by EMTPRescue

markcee, just be careful with buying a used Ford. I am not certain what years they were, but Ford had a huge challenge transitioning from the Direct Injection International Harvester diesel engine that they used for many years. When they first introduced there own iteration of the Power Stroke Diesel, they had big problems with what I have been told was the turbo chargers over boosting and head bolts expanding under load which resulted in blown head gaskets and sometimes the engines grenading.

Look at how often Ford changed the PS engine design. It was far more often than either GM or Dodge.

If the engines were left stock the problems apparently seldom developed but put any sort of after market tune into the ECM, increase the boost then watch out.

Ford built the engines reportedly at close to their max capability. Accordingly, they were very intolerant of any sort of performance enhancements particularly as it relates to increased boost pressures.

The Dmax can be safely performance enhanced and the Cummins diesel in the Dodge, can be tuned to the sun and back.

Just do your research and you should be fine.

Hope this helps

The ‘11-12 6.7 PS had two issues that caused a lot of problems. An undersized turbo with crappy bearings that would spin out and trash the turbo and glow plugs that would break off and trash the engine. Not widespread but enough to be cautious about them. The turbo was modified for ‘13-14 with better bearings, not too many issues with those years, the glow plug issue was also addressed. In ‘15-‘19, Revision 3 of the motor, an all new turbo was fitted and was an all around better design. Owners of older versions tend to refit with the new turbo if they have issues. Offhand, can’t remember the changes in ‘20-21. A ‘13-14 PS is a good engine, and the ‘15’s on have been very reliable.

Ford does still use the Bosch CP4 high pressure fuel pump, which isn’t a favorite of anyone, but running additive to increase fuel lubricity and regular checking of fuel filter water contamination goes a long way to reducing problems. Both Ram and GM used that same fuel pump, I believe it was 17-18 for GM and 18-19 for Ram but both went to other options.

The PS is a fine motor, dependable with HP and torque to spare. I’m not a fan of custom tunes on any diesel truck, because I think they stress components much more than stock, and their issues tend to be more catastrophic and expensive when they happen. But to each their own. I have never heard that a PS couldn’t be tuned and the statement that they were built close to max is completely false. If that were the case, Ford wouldn’t have retuned them to jump 85 hp and 315 ft pounds of torque over the life of the engine thus far.

The PS is no less reliable than a Duramax or a Cummins. The Cummins wins hands down on simplicity and a proven track record over a long haul. Only thing with the Cummins is you can hear the Cummins coming a mile away. I always tell anyone looking for a diesel to drive them all and pick the truck they like best. Any of the three motors will do a great job.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by markcee

Are Ford's out of the question? Here is what sounds like a good deal on a '17 PSD 1-ton with 34K miles:

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...Type=spotlight

That truck was $58K new and with 35K miles on it they're asking $53.5K... It's holding "new truck value" or they're really REALLY "proud of that truck"

Here's a link to the window sticker for the VIN. Scroll down to "mid page" to view: https://researchmaniacs.com/VIN-Numb...8W3BT8HEB48115

[firestation12]

2 of my sons posted their 2006 LBZ Duramax's each with approx 160,000 miles, for sale last month after buying new 2021 Duramax trucks. They had their trucks sold within an hour for $21,000 and $23,000 respectively. They each paid $33,000 for them new in 2006. Resale on used diesel trucks here in Arizona are crazy high!