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Old 03-12-2021, 07:55 AM   #1
Global Driver
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Mountain Towing

Good morning all....

I am trying to get some insight to power/towing capacity loss when towing in the mountains of Colorado. We are planning to go to Fun Valley and other locales this summer.

Here are the numbers

TV:
2015 Suburban with 3.42 gears
8,300 lb max trailer weight
14,000 lb MGCWR

TT:
2014 Passport
5045 lbs dry weight plus our "stuff"

With altitude and temps, I am trying to get an idea of what loss I can expect. We weighed 12,800lbs at our last station weigh. My concern is that we are already at 91% of max GCWR and that I would lose a significant amount of power when at altitude. Also....just cause you can get it up the hill doesn't mean that you can control it coming down the hill!!

These HD trucks are mighty pricey these days!!
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Old 03-12-2021, 10:20 AM   #2
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You might consider opening your driver door and getting your payload number. Then take about 13 percent of your trailer's gross weight and add weight of passengers and "stuff" in your Suburban and see how far over (or under I guess) your payload you actually are. I suspect you will want to find roads that have truck (far right) lanes for going up hills. Fully understand how trucks can be pricey but SUVs are seldom the ticket for towing.
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Old 03-12-2021, 11:50 AM   #3
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As George suggested look at that payload sticker. The other b2 numbers you posted are useless. I suspect your tv is overloaded anjd with that gear ratio overtaxed atbsea level. That rig will be VERY sluggish at higher altitudes.
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Old 03-12-2021, 11:53 AM   #4
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If your vehicle has fuel injection, then it’s controlled by a computer that will make air/fuel mixture adjustments as you drive and you may only notice a very slight loss of power. Going down the hill, GO SLOW and easy, try to ease into turns, and then use the trailer brakes more than the TV brakes.
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Old 03-12-2021, 11:56 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Global Driver View Post
Good morning all....

I am trying to get some insight to power/towing capacity loss when towing in the mountains of Colorado. We are planning to go to Fun Valley and other locales this summer.

Here are the numbers

TV:
2015 Suburban with 3.42 gears
8,300 lb max trailer weight
14,000 lb MGCWR

TT:
2014 Passport
5045 lbs dry weight plus our "stuff"

With altitude and temps, I am trying to get an idea of what loss I can expect. We weighed 12,800lbs at our last station weigh. My concern is that we are already at 91% of max GCWR and that I would lose a significant amount of power when at altitude. Also....just cause you can get it up the hill doesn't mean that you can control it coming down the hill!!

These HD trucks are mighty pricey these days!!
If your towing in the mountains for any length of time ,I would get a diesel pickup,with an exhaust brake.. it’s the right equipment for the job.. if your going out in the ocean you need a safe capable boat.. in the sky? Dependable plane? ... see the pattern? ....just sayin it’s better to be safe so you can have fun..good luck
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Old 03-12-2021, 12:28 PM   #6
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Coming from Aledo, TX (I presume based on your info) you will probably drive over Raton Pass and La Veta Pass on the way to Fun Valley near South Fork, CO. Neither of them are super-steep, but both of them can catch you by surprise, if you are not careful. If you are going to cross the San Luis Valley in the summer, it will be hot, but it is flat. It is also at ~7000 feet. Your engine will adjust, but it will feel much more sluggish than you are used to. If you come from the West, you will have to traverse Wolf Creek Pass. That is no joke. That is a scary pass, even without a trailer.
I won't make judgements on using your SUV to tow your trailer, but I will say that you will want to ensure that everything is as mechanically sound as possible. There are plenty of people around here (Colorado) that blow tires and get in wrecks because of poor setups and poor maintenance. Do what you can to not be one of them.
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Old 03-12-2021, 12:40 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by flybouy View Post
As George suggested look at that payload sticker. The other b2 numbers you posted are useless. I suspect your tv is overloaded anjd with that gear ratio overtaxed atbsea level. That rig will be VERY sluggish at higher altitudes.
Gonna need some clarification on why I am over the payload capacity of my TV.

GVWR is 7300lbs
7300 - 5775 (curb weight) = 1525 lbs of payload
Family and gear within the truck are far below that 1525 lbs

At the last weight station, I was below the individual GAWR FRT and RR
I use a 600 lbs WDH to lighten the load on the rear axle and tongue weight as well.

Is there some number I am missing?
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Old 03-12-2021, 12:45 PM   #8
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Coming from Aledo, TX (I presume based on your info) you will probably drive over Raton Pass and La Veta Pass on the way to Fun Valley near South Fork, CO. Neither of them are super-steep, but both of them can catch you by surprise, if you are not careful. If you are going to cross the San Luis Valley in the summer, it will be hot, but it is flat. It is also at ~7000 feet. Your engine will adjust, but it will feel much more sluggish than you are used to. If you come from the West, you will have to traverse Wolf Creek Pass. That is no joke. That is a scary pass, even without a trailer.
I won't make judgements on using your SUV to tow your trailer, but I will say that you will want to ensure that everything is as mechanically sound as possible. There are plenty of people around here (Colorado) that blow tires and get in wrecks because of poor setups and poor maintenance. Do what you can to not be one of them.
Thank you!! We will be going over Raton and La Vita Passes. I have done both of them with lighter pop ups in the past and also Wolf Creek in the winter with no TT. You are correct about Wolf Creek.

I keep our TV and TT up to date on maintenance and wear items.
Prior Planning Prevents P*** Poor Performance.

I fully grasp the difference between can it do and should I do it.
Dropping 60K on a nice 2500 isn't in the pocket book. Thats why we camp instead of 10 trips to Mickey Mouse Land. I am a pilot by trade, so I grasp the idea and plan of always be prepared and have an out.
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Old 03-12-2021, 12:53 PM   #9
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Thank you!! We will be going over Raton and La Vita Passes. I have done both of them with lighter pop ups in the past and also Wolf Creek in the winter with no TT. You are correct about Wolf Creek.

I keep our TV and TT up to date on maintenance and wear items.
Prior Planning Prevents P*** Poor Performance.

I fully grasp the difference between can it do and should I do it.
Dropping 60K on a nice 2500 isn't in the pocket book. Thats why we camp instead of 10 trips to Mickey Mouse Land. I am a pilot by trade, so I grasp the idea and plan of always be prepared and have an out.
See my PM
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Old 03-12-2021, 12:57 PM   #10
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... I am a pilot by trade, so I grasp the idea and plan of always be prepared and have an out.
And W&B!
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Old 03-12-2021, 01:03 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Global Driver View Post
With altitude and temps, I am trying to get an idea of what loss I can expect. We weighed 12,800lbs at our last station weigh. My concern is that we are already at 91% of max GCWR and that I would lose a significant amount of power when at altitude. Also....just cause you can get it up the hill doesn't mean that you can control it coming down the hill!!

You will probably not notice the loss of performance going uphill.


Use the manual mode on the transmission and downshift to hold lower gears going downhill. If you are in 3rd gear at the top of the hill start downhill in 3rd gear also. You can always upshift if you are going too slow, but if you are going too fast you will need to use the brakes to slow down before you can downshift.


Gary
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Old 03-12-2021, 01:09 PM   #12
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Gonna need some clarification on why I am over the payload capacity of my TV.

GVWR is 7300lbs
7300 - 5775 (curb weight) = 1525 lbs of payload
Family and gear within the truck are far below that 1525 lbs

At the last weight station, I was below the individual GAWR FRT and RR
I use a 600 lbs WDH to lighten the load on the rear axle and tongue weight as well.

Is there some number I am missing?
Well first I said likely as you didn't share the weights you have posted now. Still don't know what model trailer you have, only the "empty weight" which is useless. So there is no indication as to what the tongue weight of the trailer is. (BTW, the WDH is part of the tongue weight, it does not reduce it just shifts it.)

Take that 1,525 lbs of payload, subtract the tongue weight of the trailer, the weight of the WDH and bars, the weight of everything else in the truck including any and all non manufacturer accessories like floor mats, tools, ice chest, pets, food, etc. Typically the payload number runs out long before you reach the max axle weights or combined vehichle weights.

If you check out Catscale.com they have great instructions on how to take 2 weights on the scales to record all the numbers that you need.
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Old 03-12-2021, 01:19 PM   #13
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Unless something has changed in physics a normally aspirated engine will loose HP due to a rise in elevation, fuel injection does not alter this. A naturally aspirated engine that's fuel injected will burn cleaner as the air is thinner the fuel is reduced to maintain the correct fuel/air ratio. Less air means less fuel means less power.

Now if an engine is turbo charged or has a supercharger than that's a different story. Air charger systems were born from the airplane industry to keep the engines producing high power at higher altitudes. Here's one calculator you can use to find the relationship. http://www.wallaceracing.com/braking-hp.php
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Old 03-12-2021, 02:10 PM   #14
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When you have a “mechanical” Diesel engine like I do, then you get to “roll coal” but not by choice since the same amount of fuel is being injected into the cylinder at any altitude.
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Old 03-12-2021, 02:13 PM   #15
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My next truck!!! Keep the EPA and noise sensitive people FAR away
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Old 03-12-2021, 02:16 PM   #16
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My next truck!!! Keep the EPA and noise sensitive people FAR away
Now your just being ridiculous... that would cost much more then a new diesel pickup ....anyway didn’t mean to offend with my prior post .. good luck and safe travels!
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Old 03-12-2021, 02:18 PM   #17
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Now your just being ridiculous... that would cost much more then a new diesel pickup ....anyway didn’t mean to offend with my prior post .. good luck and safe travels!
No offense taken! Gonna take much more to get me worked up.
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Old 03-12-2021, 02:21 PM   #18
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When you have a “mechanical” Diesel engine like I do, then you get to “roll coal” but not by choice since the same amount of fuel is being injected into the cylinder at any altitude.
Your mechanical diesel will probably still be chugging along for another 30 years ...my space shuttle designed environmental diesel will probably have a myriad of sensor failures by then
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Old 03-12-2021, 02:24 PM   #19
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Your mechanical diesel will probably still be chugging along for another 30 years ...my space shuttle designed environmental diesel will probably have a myriad of sensor failures by then
What is a reasonable amount of miles to consider for a buying a used diesel?
Here in TX, I worry what the hot shot guys have been trying to tow out on the farms with them. Anything less than 100K should be just getting started correct?
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Old 03-12-2021, 02:30 PM   #20
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What is a reasonable amount of miles to consider for a buying a used diesel?
Here in TX, I worry what the hot shot guys have been trying to tow out on the farms with them. Anything less than 100K should be just getting started correct?
I just traded my 2012 with 100000 miles and it was in great condition BUT little things started going up on it like universal joints and a brake caliper and little odds and ends.. if you find one like mine, and they are out there I don’t think you will go wrong...I only upgraded because I wanted/needed a dually... I would look for a private seller because used car dealers only give you a 30 day warranty typically anyway... that way you can see the history and maybe how they take care of other vehicles they own.... my truck would have went right through state inspection
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