F250 6.7 Diesel and Cougar 303RLS

[mtofell]

Originally Posted by Northofu1

I find it amusing that the folks that throw caution to the wind don't post their RV and TV in a signature.

I'm not really throwing, "caution to the wind" but I'll bite anyways.... I've never filled out my profile completely because I don't spend much time here compared to other message boards I frequent. <deleted>... It kind of takes away from the experience but such as life.

Truck - 2014 Ram 2500 6.4 Hemi 4X4, Payload on the DOOR STICKER 3070#

5th Wheel - 2016 Keystone 308BHDS, dry sticker weight 9040# (don't worry, I've read ALL the comments and I know this doesn't matter).

Feel free to pass along this info to law enforcement so I can be arrested.

[Ken / Claudia]

I gotta keep it real, it's not an arresting offense it's a violation. Law Enforcement is the least of your worries IF your found at fault in any major crash. It's the lawyers that can and will attempt to take your home not cops.
I have related to my cases on here and knew of many more. Cops do the crash investigation, you may get a ticket or not.
Months or years later cops get a subpoena to testify in a civil hearing and or trail, I have as most long time traffic cops. That's when you hear terms like Careless, Reckless, Knowingly unlawful etc etc. and they point at you when saying it.
In this country even when you do the right things lawfully, but someone feels you owe them and you own a house, have assets or are just plain wealthy. Some want to take that away. Limit your liability on public roads by following the laws, knowing the laws and not following them is gambling.

[xrated]

Originally Posted by mtofell

I'm not really throwing, "caution to the wind" but I'll bite anyways.... I've never filled out my profile completely because I don't spend much time here compared to other message boards I frequent. <deleted>... It kind of takes away from the experience but such as life.

Truck - 2014 Ram 2500 6.4 Hemi 4X4, Payload on the DOOR STICKER 3070#

5th Wheel - 2016 Keystone 308BHDS, dry sticker weight 9040# (don't worry, I've read ALL the comments and I know this doesn't matter).

Feel free to pass along this info to law enforcement so I can be arrested.

With a trailer GVWR of 10,645 and the "normal" stuff that you put in the truck also....hitch, passengers, etc. you are more than likely not over the payload capacity of the truck....unless you've done other things like adding really heavy stuff to the truck. This whole discussion is and has been about the O.P.'s setup which IS CLEARLY going to be overloaded with his truck/trailer combo. If yours isn't, then no problems.

[wiredgeorge]

Wow. The OP was told right from the get go that he doesn't have enough truck for the 5ver. Some folks have replied to this thread about 23 times and have mentioned an angry mob of LEOs, insurance agents and lawyers. Seems the intensity of reaction to a common issue indicates a surplus of available time to folks who are confined. My sense is that after reading all this stuff, the OP is going to do what the OP wants and since he already owns the truck and 5ver, doubt he will fold and buy either a new truck or camper and just wing it. Anyway, I have to get into the shop as I am swamped with business and need to work on a Saturday.... yuck.

[CANINE]

I feel like I'm feeding sharks......although great thought, opinions, and comments.

My daddy always told me there are three (3) types of people in this world.

Those that can count and those that couldn't.



Scale weights from this morning:
Steer: 4960
Drive: 3560
Gross: 8520

May I add....I do have airbags and super glide hitch......6.7 diesel and very clean no issue F250. I'll post pictures later.

Thanks for all the inquizative insight.

Vic

[rhagfo]

Can’t wait for OP to come back with scale weights! First doubt that as a weekend traveler he will be at the 12,100# GVWR of the 5er. I also believe his TV will come in at about 7,800# giving room for 2,200# of pin before exceeding the 10,000# GVWR.
On Edit: well did’t see scale weights before I started my reply. Looks like OP needs to make a decision as to towing slightly over GVWR.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

Wow. The OP was told right from the get go that he doesn't have enough truck for the 5ver. Some folks have replied to this thread about 23 times and have mentioned an angry mob of LEOs, insurance agents and lawyers. Seems the intensity of reaction to a common issue indicates a surplus of available time to folks who are confined. My sense is that after reading all this stuff, the OP is going to do what the OP wants and since he already owns the truck and 5ver, doubt he will fold and buy either a new truck or camper and just wing it. Anyway, I have to get into the shop as I am swamped with business and need to work on a Saturday.... yuck.

I think you are missing the reasoning for many of the responses. In my opinion, telling a "newbie" that towing with their overloaded truck (from their own numbers) is akin to telling a newly licensed driver to "don't worry about the laws and warnings, start calling your friends on the drive home!". The "new to towing" operator by definition has no experience. They don't know how it's supposed to react nor how to compensate for an issue that could arise that could be exacerbated by towing beyond capacity or improper load balance.

The comments and experiences on insurance companies, attorneys, and LEOs are accurate reflections of reality and intended to inform the OP of some of the POSSIBLE ramifications of taking the action of knowingly towing above the "published manufacturers maximum limits". The "23 comments by some" I can only address the reasoning behind my comments. I respond to challenging comments with facts when challenger offers none. I will call out someone that "seeks to impress" with erred logic or wildly exaggerated claims that can't be substantiated. There's a section for "fishing stories" they belong in the campfire chatter.

This debate, and the subsequent comments are certainly not new and I doubt they will end with this post. As long as "newbies" join, don't search or look around and post questions then you will get these types of posts. As long as some people misread or "read something into" a post this will happen. So if this taking up too much of your time, or leaves a "yuckie" aftertaste then I can only suggest ignoring them.

These are my opinions and we are all welcome to express our opinions *** long as they are within the "site rules". Enjoy working today and be thankful that you can still make money during these times.

[wiredgeorge]

I understand the topic as it has been hashed out a zillion times. I also believe the OP seems to be fairly lucid and caught the drift and said he was going to a weight scales and get the real numbers. Not sure how the gross weight of the truck plays but shouldn't he be looking at the stated payload on the yellow tire sticker on his door frame? His short bed and guzzied up Lariat model (not sure what cab type, rear axle or if it is a 4x4) but likely he will be at the low end of payload capacity; probably a shade over 3000 lbs. and his camper tongue weight should be a bit under 2500 lbs so depending on how chubby he and his dog are and how much junk (or passengers/tools, etc) seems he may be OK.

Someone might have suggested he drag his camper to the scales and get some real numbers with the camper as well and look at his payload.

And Marshall, I KNOW why you reacted to the fella who told him to ride off into the sunset and possibly overloaded. We get at least one of these type comments every time someone asks about loading. Rather than try and be diplomatic and explain why dumb is dumb, perhaps just saying (once) that you are a... well there is probably some forum rule about completing this sentance.

[flybouy]

Totally agree George, to "fill in the blank" would be a personal attack in my thinking but your thinking is "on track".

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by CANINE

I feel like I'm feeding sharks......although great thought, opinions, and comments.

My daddy always told me there are three (3) types of people in this world.

Those that can count and those that couldn't.



Scale weights from this morning:
Steer: 4960
Drive: 3560
Gross: 8520

May I add....I do have airbags and super glide hitch......6.7 diesel and very clean no issue F250. I'll post pictures later.

Thanks for all the inquizative insight.

Vic

Thanks for getting back Vic. Yes, these conversations can get quite interesting, and sometimes kinda fun given some of the comments and directions they take. Hopefully you can take away that there are many folks that take towing, and towing safely, pretty seriously.

Your weights sort of surprise me as they seem pretty heavy for a stock 3/4 ton. My 14 was considerably less but it was gas, not diesel but even then it was still well under what yours runs. Just thought about it and I didn't carry a 5th wheel hitch either.

With the scaled numbers 10k gvw less the 8520 scaled weight only leaves you with 1480 in payload. If your trailer just runs at the unloaded weight only (not possible) the pin would be approx. 1947 lbs. (est. 20% pin) which is well above your available payload. Your situation is exactly why I have a new 1 ton.

Keep in mind that air bags don't help payload at all, just diminish it nor does any kind of hitch. All may seem to just fine....until it's not. I can tell you that it is absolutely NO fun to try to haul a big trailer down with a 3/4 ton. Combine that with the possibility of having to take some sort of evasive action and I think you can see where many of us come from.

Don't worry about "feeding the sharks", ask away with any questions. That "frenzy in the water" can be entertaining at times!

[CANINE]

So, will attempt to provide all the info I could obtain and also say thanks to both the informative reply's along with the not so informative.

To summarize:

Truck:
2012 F250 Crew Cab Lariate 6.7 Diesel
Hitch: Model 2700 Pullrite Superglide
Trailer: 2015 303RLS Cougar High Country
Ride Rite Air Bags

Truck Weights:
Steer Axle: 4960
Drive Axle: 3660
Gross: 8520
Truck was fully loaded with Diesel, Hitch in place, DW and Dogs in place, small toolbox, safety gear, ....and today's grocery's.
to add: maybe why it's so heavy is the 5th Wheel Tow Prep Package which includes 1 under-bed-frame crossmember and the Camper package which supposed to have front springs upgrade, rear stabilizer bar, slide-in-camper certification and auxiliary rear springs......this truck seems to be beefed up. Since I did not buy new, I have to rely on given information and visual information. Also, I know the truck is rated to pull 15,200...possibly increase with additional options??

5er Weights:
Dry Weight: 9735 (brochure)
Payload Capacity: 2365 (brochure)
Weight with our full camping loadout: 11,375

So, fully loaded and ready to roll out the truck is at 8520 and the trailer is at 11,375.

I'm pretty sure the axle weights are good and though I'm a little over on the GVWR....I think.

As previously mentioned, thanks for all you insight and input. I hope to contribute in the future and look forward to hauling down the road.

Our intentions are to stay within 3-5 hr drives and mainly camp local for the next 5-7 years.

With the added knowledge we would certainly be looking for a 1 ton at the time we intend to cross country.

Hope everyone is staying safe and have a great evening.

Thanks to those sending private messages.....valuable info and understood.

vic

[CANINE]

Adding Photo's as promised:

1) 2012 F250
2) 2015 Cougar 303RLS
3) Saying buy to old and hello to new

vic

[KRumm]

Originally Posted by CANINE

Scale weights from this morning:
Steer: 4960
Drive: 3560
Gross: 8520

Vic

Not to pour more rain on your parade but do these numbers also account for DW?...

[CANINE]

If I took that factor out of the equation, I'd be a Lot safer.

[travelin texans]

Just FYI!
The air bags nor any other option that wasn't on the truck from the factory do ABSOLUTELY nothing to increase your payload or carrying capacity, if they do anything it's subtract from your available payload due to the weight of those options.
The air bags ONLY use is to level the truck once hitched up, nothing more regardless of advertising or what someone may have told you.
You are now among the ever growing group of folks that are towing overweight, either knowingly or not, so just be aware & be safe. We are living in a RV park with folks coming/going everyday that are very obviously towing grossly over weight so just know you are not the only one on the highway now or in the future, just be willing to accept any adverse consequences.

[CANINE]

Understand on the Air Bags. Wonder about Tow Package and Camping package from the factory helps? If not why would there be options for those?

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by CANINE

So, will attempt to provide all the info I could obtain and also say thanks to both the informative reply's along with the not so informative.

To summarize:

Truck:
2012 F250 Crew Cab Lariate 6.7 Diesel
Hitch: Model 2700 Pullrite Superglide
Trailer: 2015 303RLS Cougar High Country
Ride Rite Air Bags

Truck Weights:
Steer Axle: 4960
Drive Axle: 3660
Gross: 8520
Truck was fully loaded with Diesel, Hitch in place, DW and Dogs in place, small toolbox, safety gear, ....and today's grocery's.
to add: maybe why it's so heavy is the 5th Wheel Tow Prep Package which includes 1 under-bed-frame crossmember and the Camper package which supposed to have front springs upgrade, rear stabilizer bar, slide-in-camper certification and auxiliary rear springs......this truck seems to be beefed up. Since I did not buy new, I have to rely on given information and visual information. Also, I know the truck is rated to pull 15,200...possibly increase with additional options??

5er Weights:
Dry Weight: 9735 (brochure)
Payload Capacity: 2365 (brochure)
Weight with our full camping loadout: 11,375

So, fully loaded and ready to roll out the truck is at 8520 and the trailer is at 11,375.

I'm pretty sure the axle weights are good and though I'm a little over on the GVWR....I think.

As previously mentioned, thanks for all you insight and input. I hope to contribute in the future and look forward to hauling down the road.

Our intentions are to stay within 3-5 hr drives and mainly camp local for the next 5-7 years.

With the added knowledge we would certainly be looking for a 1 ton at the time we intend to cross country.

Hope everyone is staying safe and have a great evening.

Thanks to those sending private messages.....valuable info and understood.

vic

Well until you scale it with the 5er attached all the numbers about pin weight and how far over GVWR you will be.

Right now with a 20% pin you look to be 795# over GVWR.

The rear axle is guessed to carry the entire pin 2,275 + 3,560 = 5,835# so good even on a 6,000# rear axle rating.

In the end you are going to be over the GVWR of the current TV. While I don't condone towing over GVWR, I did it for about seven years with a 2001 Ram 2500 CTD, I was a lot more over than you.
It towed fine, never afraid of getting a ticket for being over weight, BUT the thought of a lawyer coming after me for being in a accident my fault or NOT due to the fact I was 1,700# over GVWR, still within all axles.

The other issue is that you will likely find the towing experience with the new 5er way better than your old TT. You won't notice passing semis, or cross winds, 5er is just far more stable.

I would be looking at stepping up to a newer 350/3500 SRW TV in the not too distant future.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by CANINE

Understand on the Air Bags. Wonder about Tow Package and Camping package from the factory helps? If not why would there be options for those?

Question on the bags, did you have them with the TT, or did you add for the 5er?
The other thing to look at is what do you carry in the truck besides you, DW and the dogs? Our current 2016 Ram 3500 Laramie CTD DRW had a payload sticker of 5,411# once my STUFF, me DW small dog (30#), we were down to 4,000# available for pin weight. DW and I are not slim, but also not large.

Don't remember you posting the payload off the yellow sticker on the door pillar.

[+Ruff Rider]

My 15 has a max loaded trailer weight of 16,100 pounds and a gvwr of 23,500. With 355's you can go 32,100

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by CANINE

Understand on the Air Bags. Wonder about Tow Package and Camping package from the factory helps? If not why would there be options for those?

Anything that came from the factory is accounted for in the yellow sticker on the drivers door, anything you or the dealer added is not.