Floor repair on Bullet - Page 9

**JRTJH** · 11-27-2020, 04:30 PM

wbdvt,

Let's take your trailer as an example and "lay out two entirely different reports for exactly the same problem"...

Let's begin with the "setup":

You take the trailer to the dealer, they see the front seam was assembled incorrectly during trailer assembly and that there is water damage to the front wall, the front insulation and the floor luan decking is soft in a 6 square foot area around the curbside bedside table/cabinet. The floor damage extends from the bed pedestal to the sidewall. The dealer realizes the repair will be extremely labor intensive, doesn't really want to do the repair and knows that Keystone will not authorize all the costs to repair it. In other words, it's going to cost the dealership if they take on the work.....

First scenario:

The dealership sends a report to Keystone stating the following:

Example 1:
The front cap/roof membrane junction shows evidence of long term leaks and water damage. The front interior wall of the trailer is delaminated, the insulation is saturated with water and the floor is damaged in a 6 sqft area extending from the bed pedestal to the trailer sidewall. There is evidence of DICOR sealant application over the OEM sealant, but when or how that was applied is not reflected in the owner's documentation. We estimate 30 manhours and approximately $600 in parts to repair the trailer.

Example 2:
The front cap/roof membrane junction shows evidence of long term leaks and water damage. The interior wall of the trailer is delaminated, the insulation is saturated with water and the floor is damaged in a 6 sqft area extending from the bed pedestal to the trailer sidewall. Upon careful examination, it is evident that upon assembly, the front cap/roof membrane junction was not properly sealed as the trailer moved down the assembly line. That junction, without the appropriate sealant will not protect the trailer from water intrusion. It is our belief that the trailer was improperly manufactured and no matter how diligent the owner's inspections and repair/resealing of the surface of that joint, water intrusion would still be probable. There is evidence that the owner has inspected and resealed that joint. There is evidence of appropriate repair/resealing in the past. It is our opinion that the defect originated at the factory during trailer assembly and no matter how diligent the owner has been, there is no reasonable expectation that he could have prevented this defect from causing the damage that is present.

We believe that the water intrusion began immediately upon the trailer leaving the assembly line and has been ongoing since then, even though the owner has performed all roof inspections and resealing requirements as recommended in the Owner's Manual. The repair of damage should be authorized by Keystone. We estimate that it will take about 30-35 manhours and approximately $600 to 800 in parts and material. Photos to support our evaluation are included with this request for post-warranty repair. Take particular note of photo marked #3 which clearly shows the area of missing factory sealant.

Consider both dealer reports and make a determination whether you think one would be better received by the factory and why....

What your dealership does "TO" you or "FOR" you can make all the difference in how Keystone reacts to their reports.

Summergirl · 11-27-2020, 08:55 PM

JRTJH: you are so right on the mark.
Your dealer is the source if it gets fixed or not.
Lots of reading here has taught me lots on how and when to push.
But still waitimg for our unit to arrive back to the dealer.
Hope the person that picked it up isn’t sleeping in it. Lol

DavSki · 11-30-2020, 12:18 PM

Danf, I'm preparing to take my 2018 330BHS 200 miles from my property in upstate PA to my selling dealer in Berlin NJ to be inspected for the missing butyl tape on the belly band. There's considerable cost in getting it there since I don't own a truck capable of towing it. I have just one question - was it worth it to you (all things considered) to have the manufacturer "fix" your floor. I'm on the fence because of the cost to transport, the unknown of whether or not they'll agree to repair, and finally having no idea how long they'll have my trailer if they do in fact, agree to repair. Your thoughts appreciated.

Dave

danf · 12-04-2020, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavSki

Danf, I'm preparing to take my 2018 330BHS 200 miles from my property in upstate PA to my selling dealer in Berlin NJ to be inspected for the missing butyl tape on the belly band. There's considerable cost in getting it there since I don't own a truck capable of towing it. I have just one question - was it worth it to you (all things considered) to have the manufacturer "fix" your floor. I'm on the fence because of the cost to transport, the unknown of whether or not they'll agree to repair, and finally having no idea how long they'll have my trailer if they do in fact, agree to repair. Your thoughts appreciated.

Dave

Given my camper was worthless and unusable prior to replacing the floor, I would say it's worth it to get the floor replaced.

Summergirl · 12-04-2020, 08:45 PM

Last update:
Received the trailer back today after 20 weeks of not seeing it.
The floor replacement is great. Looking through out the unit you would never know there was an issue.
When looking closely you can see we’re the wiring has been spliced and water lines. Overall it looks great. The tacked down some trim that wasn’t right from factory as well as replaced the decal in the glass doors that had rubbed.
Overall experience - took them way too long. From the time it was dropped off to return was 20 weeks. No this was not the dealer. Transport arrangements from Canada were horrendous due to COVID-19. Parts coming from the east coast to west coast took forever. The fact the west coast plant isn’t geared for floor replacement as well as natural disasters (forest fires) and COVID did bode for a quick turn around. Originally told 6-8 weeks.
The floor looks great. So far we haven’t been able to test anything out. They did winterized the system including filling the hot water tank with RV anti freeze. Which we have drained and will flush out this week. Will test all appliances this week as well before putting it to bed for the winter. Spring can’t come fast enough.

DavSki · 12-22-2020, 07:32 AM

Thank you sir. Finally dropped it at the dealer on December 11. Hoping to hear some feedback by next week. Merry Christmas!

kfp673 · 03-14-2021, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavSki

Thank you sir. Finally dropped it at the dealer on December 11. Hoping to hear some feedback by next week. Merry Christmas!

Hello All,

First post on this forum and regular on others. I am curious to hear how you made out with your factory replacement. We have a 2018 Keystone Outback. It was picked up 12/27 for factory floor replacement for similar issues as mentioned in this thread. Apparently this is a common issue right now. It was returned to the dealer last week. We went to pick it up on Friday and after a 30 minute inspection we declined to take it. They did a great job with the floor. Everything else is a mess. They did a terrible job with reassembly. Every place that required sealing looks like it was done by a toddler. Total mess, faucets installed backward, missing screws, damaged seals, silicone smeared all over everything, slide not aligned, ripped carpet, shower pulling off the wall, and on and on. I could not be more disappointed. We sent it to Keystone very well cared for but with soft spots on the floor. It came back with a good floor and everything else destroyed. It sounds like Keystone is replacing a lot of floors right now but this is the only thread I have found of people who have had it done. Anyone else have this poor of an experience? For those of you that had it done, be sure to take your time and look close. Look under the camper at the dark wrap (ours was torn), look at your decals (ours was gashed), pull out your drawers (ours no longer slide nicely) and review everything. I believe they are using a very inexperienced team to perform the reassembly and now we are left with a big monthly payment for a destroyed trailer. Hope you are all having better luck than I am!

DavSki · 03-15-2021, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kfp673

Hello All,

First post on this forum and regular on others. I am curious to hear how you made out with your factory replacement. We have a 2018 Keystone Outback. It was picked up 12/27 for factory floor replacement for similar issues as mentioned in this thread. Apparently this is a common issue right now. It was returned to the dealer last week. We went to pick it up on Friday and after a 30 minute inspection we declined to take it. They did a great job with the floor. Everything else is a mess. They did a terrible job with reassembly. Every place that required sealing looks like it was done by a toddler. Total mess, faucets installed backward, missing screws, damaged seals, silicone smeared all over everything, slide not aligned, ripped carpet, shower pulling off the wall, and on and on. I could not be more disappointed. We sent it to Keystone very well cared for but with soft spots on the floor. It came back with a good floor and everything else destroyed. It sounds like Keystone is replacing a lot of floors right now but this is the only thread I have found of people who have had it done. Anyone else have this poor of an experience? For those of you that had it done, be sure to take your time and look close. Look under the camper at the dark wrap (ours was torn), look at your decals (ours was gashed), pull out your drawers (ours no longer slide nicely) and review everything. I believe they are using a very inexperienced team to perform the reassembly and now we are left with a big monthly payment for a destroyed trailer. Hope you are all having better luck than I am!

KFP,

Keystone did eventually agree to repair my Bullet 330BHS. However, it took so long to schedule a pickup, (they weren't going to pick it up until March 8th which meant we might not see it until June) we decided to have it hauled back to our property so we could use it for the entire season. Keystone agreed to pick it up directly from our property at the end of October so it could be repaired during the "off season".

Dave

Aloha · 03-20-2021, 07:12 PM

Do these flooring issues occur on 2020 or 2021 models? I was just about to purchase a 1700BH but now I am scared to death after reading these posts.

**JRTJH** · 03-20-2021, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aloha

Do these flooring issues occur on 2020 or 2021 models? I was just about to purchase a 1700BH but now I am scared to death after reading these posts.

The Keystone website lists Hyper Deck™ flooring as standard equipment on Bullet Crossfire models. If that information is correct, then the "wet luan/cardboard floor problem" will not be a factor. You might want to contact Keystone Customer Service during regular business hours to confirm that the website is correct. Their phone number is: (866) 425-4369

danf · 03-23-2021, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kfp673

Hello All,

First post on this forum and regular on others. I am curious to hear how you made out with your factory replacement. We have a 2018 Keystone Outback. It was picked up 12/27 for factory floor replacement for similar issues as mentioned in this thread. Apparently this is a common issue right now. It was returned to the dealer last week. We went to pick it up on Friday and after a 30 minute inspection we declined to take it. They did a great job with the floor. Everything else is a mess. They did a terrible job with reassembly. Every place that required sealing looks like it was done by a toddler. Total mess, faucets installed backward, missing screws, damaged seals, silicone smeared all over everything, slide not aligned, ripped carpet, shower pulling off the wall, and on and on. I could not be more disappointed. We sent it to Keystone very well cared for but with soft spots on the floor. It came back with a good floor and everything else destroyed. It sounds like Keystone is replacing a lot of floors right now but this is the only thread I have found of people who have had it done. Anyone else have this poor of an experience? For those of you that had it done, be sure to take your time and look close. Look under the camper at the dark wrap (ours was torn), look at your decals (ours was gashed), pull out your drawers (ours no longer slide nicely) and review everything. I believe they are using a very inexperienced team to perform the reassembly and now we are left with a big monthly payment for a destroyed trailer. Hope you are all having better luck than I am!

That's pretty much it. Good job on the floor, but most everything else suffered. Our floor squeaks a bunch right by the kitchen. It could be due to the cabinets not being screwed down well. I think this new flooring is hard to get a screw in at an angle. I found a bunch (around shower, etc) that were angled in, but didn't bite into the floor. Our slide works ok, but the strip of carpet that the slide slides over never came back from the factory. The toilet was reattached at a new angle where your knees are now into the sink. The shower walls are now wavy and lifted off the walls particularly at the bottom. They broke off all the gromet push fasteners that hold the shower stall walls onto the bathroom walls. The dealer gave me some new ones. I had changed the mouse door into a plug and it came back with an entirely new plug with a broken cover. I have no idea what happened there. The coroplast was cut in several places. They taped it back but I'm going to have to do something long term to fix their fix. There is no way it's going to hold. None of the heater pipes were reattached to the heater. I had to pull back the coroplast and reattach them. There was trim missing. The dealer ordered me some. The round thing with wheels that spins in the microwave was broken in half. The dealer got me a new one. The unit came back with a frozen and broken water heater. The dealer didn't know what happened. I had the dealer winterize it before it was sent to the factory. I suspect that maybe they tested the water connections after they replaced the floor and didn't bother to winterize it again. The dealer ate the expense for a new water heater. One of the dump handles came back broken. The plastic things that hold the blinds at the bottom of the windows are all broken now. There are many fit/finish things like gaps. The doors shut tho.

I think it had a rough ride there and back. That would explain some of the problems.

IIRC they were doing 3 or 4 per day. So it's a probably a bunch of people running full speed somewhat uncoordinated with lots of chance for overlooking things and breaking things.

Clydaho · 03-28-2021, 08:44 AM

WOW! Nine pages of good information and instructions for another project on our 2019 Bullet 290BHSWE. I am having flashbacks of driving 6 hours through a monsoon in Wisconsin last fall. How much water blasted up in the wheel wells? All of it! Swell.
When did Keystone start using the Hyperdeck? What is the chance our Bullet has it? If I contact Keystone with my VIN will they be able to look it up on the build sheet? Or should I just plan on stopping by Menard's on my way through Minnesota next month for a sheet of 1/4" HDPE, some tubes of good caulk and a big box of 1 1/2" self tappers?
Thanks for all the good info on this subject!

p3t3 · 04-28-2021, 11:21 AM

Chiming in here with the same issue on a 2019 Sunset Trail 289qb. After taking it out of winter storage we noticed the vinyl flooring was loose in front, camp-side. Took it to the dealer who told us they'd seen this before, they took pics and filed a warranty claim with Keystone. 2019's have a 3 year structural warranty. Keystone approved the claim. About a week later they arranged transport and shockingly it was picked up, from our driveway, the same day.

Keystone is offering an additional 3 year structural warranty as well as a 1 year on anything caused by their repair work. Reading this thread, I will certainly go over the rig with a fine-toothed comb when it comes back.

Up to now, I would have said this was a pretty exemplary way to service the customer... but now I'll wait to get the end-product back for I make a final judgement.

Also, we're trading the trailer for a factory order we're waiting on. I sure hope it doesn't take more than the 8 weeks we were told.

p3t3 · 04-28-2021, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clydaho

WOW! Nine pages of good information and instructions for another project on our 2019 Bullet 290BHSWE. I am having flashbacks of driving 6 hours through a monsoon in Wisconsin last fall. How much water blasted up in the wheel wells? All of it! Swell.
When did Keystone start using the Hyperdeck? What is the chance our Bullet has it? If I contact Keystone with my VIN will they be able to look it up on the build sheet? Or should I just plan on stopping by Menard's on my way through Minnesota next month for a sheet of 1/4" HDPE, some tubes of good caulk and a big box of 1 1/2" self tappers?
Thanks for all the good info on this subject!

Since our Sunset Trail is a 2019 and has the old flooring (and bad seals) I think it's a safe bet your Bullet has it too. Might be worth an inspection and moisture test at your dealer before the structural warranty runs out. If they handle your claim like ours, they'll even offer to arrange replacement of the floor toward the end of the season if that's your preference.

Elmobile · 05-12-2021, 09:51 AM

Am I glad I found this thread, let me explain...

Technically I am the owner of a 2016 Bullet 248RKS. Well almost. In order to secure this trailer I have put $1K down on this 248RKS which was coming to my local RV dealer on an exchange. While not refundable I would have to buy a unit from them if I choose not to take this particular one. The unit arrived at the dealer on April 24th and I was supposed to receive it on May 05. Due to the 3rd wave of C19, it has been delayed until June 06. We love the layout and my truck should have no issue pulling it. The main reason to get it was so that we could go visit my son in Manitoba and stay there without imposing on his family... So long haul in perspective

I was not aware of this chronic issue with the floor of this trailer and will definitely triple check any water penetration in the wheel wells...
Quick question so. In the last post there is a mention of a moisture test? What does it consist of. Is that something I can ask the dealer to do for me or should I gear up for it? As well there is also mention of some bad seals. Could I get more details on that, such as location and how to check where the water would have get through inside?

The dealer says that they have a 200 points check before delivering the camper... Wonder what that would be

Any advices would be greatly appreciated...

**sourdough** · 05-12-2021, 10:47 AM

Might take this with you and "compare notes" with what they do;

https://www.angelfire.com/trek/buena...PDI_V113_2.pdf

p3t3 · 05-12-2021, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elmobile

In the last post there is a mention of a moisture test? What does it consist of. Is that something I can ask the dealer to do for me or should I gear up for it? As well there is also mention of some bad seals. Could I get more details on that, such as location and how to check where the water would have get through inside?

The dealer says that they have a 200 points check before delivering the camper... Wonder what that would be

Any advices would be greatly appreciated...

Any RV dealer should be able to use a moisture meter to check in the walls, ceiling, floor, etc. for any pre-existing leaks. I would not count on them doing this proactively under the theory that if they don't know about an issue, they don't need to disclose it. As the customer - and as someone who's had this kind of issue in about half of the trailers I've owned - I'd insist on it. Especially given the known issues with this generation of Keystone units.

In my case, I don't actually know where the leak was. My dealer did an inspection and found no moisture in the walls or ceiling, and found no evidence of leaks from the roof or windows. It must be coming from the seal (or lack thereof) that goes around the seam where the walls meet the floor. I think that missing seal is why Keystone is fixing these under warranty even though water intrusion and damage is specifically excluded from their warranty.

If there is a moisture issue, I can't imagine a dealer would be able to keep your deposit, though they might try. Good luck!

p3t3 · 05-12-2021, 11:05 AM

Also, Elmobile - one of my favorite guilty pleasure TV shows is The Curse of Oak Island. Could it be that you're from the very same Mahone Bay? ��

Elmobile · 05-12-2021, 11:12 AM

Thank you.
I have saved this document and will have a copy handy. I am going to ask the dealer a copy of the 200 points check list and have this one with me. There is also a number of questions that I want to ask.

Elmobile · 05-12-2021, 11:16 AM

P3T3,
Yes the island is only 30 kms for my place. It is quite a place... Been there a few time before they keep it really private!

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