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Old 03-29-2021, 06:56 AM   #1
AJ21
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2021 cougar

We just bought this 2021 cougar and before we even went on our first trip (currently coming home now from 3 day trip which is our first one) we have had these problems.
1) self leveling system won’t work
2) refrigerator doesn’t work
3) fresh water tank fill hose wasn’t even connected
4) shower wall wasn’t connected to the wall

Then as we right now are on the road back from our first trip we had these issues
1) leak in roof in the bathroom
2) USB ports don’t work
3) black water lever is apparently not connected so we can’t empty the tank.

Has anyone else has all these issues before even using their camper? I contacted camping word head quarters and they basically just say well tell the next person in line and call you back.
I even called Keystone and I’m still waiting for that call

Please help....
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Old 03-29-2021, 07:14 AM   #2
sourdough
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Sounds like you didn't have them do a PDI and do a walk through test out of all systems - you should have. You are also contacting the wrong people. CW headquarters and Keystone won't have anything to do with your issues. They will have to be resolved between the dealer and yourself. Virtually all new trailers have issues but between the dealer and new owner should be found prior to taking delivery.
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Old 03-29-2021, 07:34 AM   #3
AJ21
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Did it

Camping world told us they did a service tech walk through and that our sales person did as well. They showed us around the camper but rushed us through that process and said everything was good. This being our first time I didn’t realize that I needed to run water over the roof and see if it leaked. I didn’t know I should have asked them to put water in the fresh water tank to see if it leaked. Or pull the drain levers to see if they were connected.....etc
And I bought it from camping world so they are my dealer. And the store manager has changed since we bought it and our sales person is no longer there either. So I took it to their Corp office.

I understand there maybe a few small issues but not these big ones
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Old 03-29-2021, 07:52 AM   #4
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The roof leak would be an anomaly that you wouldn't find prior to taking possession. The rest should have been. For future reference there is a sticky with a pre delivery inspection checklist on the forum you can use if you buy another trailer at some point.

Changing of the guard at the dealership presents a problem to you as the buyer. Hopefully the new folks will be responsible, and responsive, to your situation. In CW there are several routes to take at the dealership. The top dog will be the GM then there will be a service manager and sales manager. Your salesman disappears from the picture after you buy the unit for all intents and purposes. You need to get to know the service manager....yesterday. You also need to find their best service advisor to work with going forward. Realize the SAs come and go, hopefully the SM was there when you bought the unit and still is. Your resolution will come at the dealership level. Keystone will point you in that direction and CW corporate will as well.

And one more discouraging thought; be prepared to be without the trailer for quite some time with that extensive of a list and with all the material shortages still going on and the backup on work due to the time of year and all the new trailers being sold. Another reason to make sure everything is working before taking off with a new trailer - it sitting on the dealer's lot for months waiting on repairs.
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Old 04-04-2021, 02:34 PM   #5
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And one more discouraging thought; be prepared to be without the trailer for quite some time with that extensive of a list and with all the material shortages still going on and the backup on work due to the time of year and all the new trailers being sold. Another reason to make sure everything is working before taking off with a new trailer - it sitting on the dealer's lot for months waiting on repairs.
One trick I learned far too late: don't drop your rig off at the dealer's and wait for them to repair it. Bring it to the dealer so that they can make a list of parts that they need to order for your repairs, then take it back home while they wait for the parts to arrive.
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Old 03-29-2021, 07:58 AM   #6
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Camping world told us they did a service tech walk through and that our sales person did as well. They showed us around the camper but rushed us through that process and said everything was good. This being our first time I didn’t realize that I needed to run water over the roof and see if it leaked. I didn’t know I should have asked them to put water in the fresh water tank to see if it leaked. Or pull the drain levers to see if they were connected.....etc
And I bought it from camping world so they are my dealer. And the store manager has changed since we bought it and our sales person is no longer there either. So I took it to their Corp office.

I understand there maybe a few small issues but not these big ones
Yeah, so you didn't do the PDI, that was the mistake. You yourself have to turn every knob, check every outlet, check every function, inspect the roof yourself. Usually takes 4 hours to do a proper one on a trailer your size, 6 or more on a larger trailer. Running water over the roof is not usually a SOP, but looking over the entire roof surface to inspect all the sealant is a SOP for the buyer. It's ok, it was a learning experience and now you will know for next time! We have all been there. Now you just have to get the dealer to make things right, which is usually the hardest part. Good luck on it, and I am sorry to hear of your troubles right off the bat.
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Old 03-29-2021, 08:23 AM   #7
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When you "drill down" to the actual problem, the guy with the tools in his hand let you down and failed to perform a proper PDI on your trailer. From there, we can "work up the food chain" blaming everyone who failed to supervise him properly, failed to allot adequate time in scheduling, fail to (add any reason)....

Bottom line is that "none of that is Keystone's fault and none (to very little) of that is CW corporate office's fault... It lies directly with the management at that specific CW location.... From your comment that the general manager and the salesman are no longer there, it appears that CW corporate offices also recognized a problem and took action to resolve what they viewed as an issue... That might be an entirely different issue, but they (CW) took action with problems....

Right now, with a "new GM" is likely to be your best time to approach the "new managment" and give them a "stern talking to" complete with the facts, documentation and expectations that you want accomplished on YOUR trailer.... I would advise against the "whole concept approach" and focus specifically on YOUR problems and YOUR acceptable resolution....

While CW corporate offices and Keystone Trailer Company "should have done better", the fact remains that it's up to the local selling dealer to inspect and deliver a trailer to the customer that meets the customer's expectations....

The local CW is who failed to do that.... Blame them and demand they fix your trailer.
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Old 03-29-2021, 09:05 AM   #8
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If the GM has been replaced by CW, he is a guy you need to get off on the fight foot with. I'm training(ed) my 4th one at my CW. When they come in they know there was a reason and they are going to try to be taking steps to improve whatever they thought was wrong. I've had 2 that were very receptive and wanted to help, and did. I've had 2 that (1) didn't want anyone to tell him what to do and the other (2) wanted to play golf and never see a customer; they're both gone.

Those that want to help will listen unless you turn them off with rants, unreasonable demands etc. You want them to listen but you will need to listen to them as well. Don't take excuses. Be polite but firm. Make sure they know your displeasure (politely), you expectations and just as importantly, your disappointment in their dealership. Then work toward a reasonable resolution for everyone. Good luck.
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Old 04-05-2021, 07:56 AM   #9
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Sounds like you didn't have them do a PDI and do a walk through test out of all systems - you should have. You are also contacting the wrong people. CW headquarters and Keystone won't have anything to do with your issues. They will have to be resolved between the dealer and yourself. Virtually all new trailers have issues but between the dealer and new owner should be found prior to taking delivery.
I’d be on the phone with keystone first thing, then GM if dealer.
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Old 04-05-2021, 08:16 AM   #10
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I took delivery of my first brand new travel trailer a couple months ago. I had a similar list of flaws, big and small. A couple of them I caught at the PDI. The rest were discovered by me later.

I think it is really lame that the RV industry has gotten people to accept/expect broken/faulty/shoddy things and that it is up to the least-informed party (the customer) to perform a scavenger hunt during the PDI, then wait weeks/months for the dealer to fix things that should have been plainly obvious from the start.

Fortunately I am handy and have an eye for detail. I have not and will not return to the dealer for anything short of a complete structural problem and have made all my own repairs in preparation for our first outing. The dealer had a shot at making it right when they sold it to me and obviously couldn't be bothered to actually look at the thing. I'm pretty certain I wouldn't be happy with whatever their 'fix' is and would end up doing it myself anyway.
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Old 04-05-2021, 10:29 AM   #11
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I took delivery of my first brand new travel trailer a couple months ago. I had a similar list of flaws, big and small. A couple of them I caught at the PDI. The rest were discovered by me later.

I think it is really lame that the RV industry has gotten people to accept/expect broken/faulty/shoddy things and that it is up to the least-informed party (the customer) to perform a scavenger hunt during the PDI, then wait weeks/months for the dealer to fix things that should have been plainly obvious from the start.

Fortunately I am handy and have an eye for detail. I have not and will not return to the dealer for anything short of a complete structural problem and have made all my own repairs in preparation for our first outing. The dealer had a shot at making it right when they sold it to me and obviously couldn't be bothered to actually look at the thing. I'm pretty certain I wouldn't be happy with whatever their 'fix' is and would end up doing it myself anyway.
It IS unfortunate that the industry turns out RVs that will need some work after they are sent out. On the other hand, it is somewhat understandable. As far as "getting" people to accept/expect broken, shoddy things; there is a very simple answer....don't buy an RV. If you do then you have "accepted" the fact that it is going to have issues more than likely. If you choose to "vote with your pocketbook" and not buy one go right ahead; they'll never miss you and never care because there are throngs of folks sitting out there waiting to buy one, aware of the potential issues and willing to address them.

So in the end the RV industry is what it is, they haven't brainwashed anyone into "accepting/epecting" broken, shoddy things - they just are. If one doesn't want to deal with that, thinks that it's "unfair" or shouldn't be that way....I've provided an answer for that.
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Old 04-05-2021, 10:44 AM   #12
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I knew going in that I was going to be buying a POS that would need a weekend or two of attention to 'make it right'. That was clear from flaws I saw in all different makes and models while doing my search. But what I found and needed to fix fell well below my already low expectations. I've discovered missing critical welds on the frame and roofing punctures caused by over-driving screws from inside, to 'storage compartments' that are barely stapled together and fall apart the first time you store items in them and wire splices that fall off in hidden locations (I've found 5 so far, one of which was for my BRAKE LIGHTS!).

I'm a mechanical engineer with over 20 years of product design & development experience. I find the approach of the RV industry reprehensible. I would never send a product out the door that was slapped together this haphazardly.

It's too bad we can't check a box when we order that increases the price 10-15% but guarantees that the unit is put together by people who actually know/care about what they are doing. But it is what it is. I doubt I'll ever purchase another one.
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Old 05-11-2021, 04:56 PM   #13
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Sounds like you didn't have them do a PDI and do a walk through test out of all systems - you should have. You are also contacting the wrong people. CW headquarters and Keystone won't have anything to do with your issues. They will have to be resolved between the dealer and yourself. Virtually all new trailers have issues but between the dealer and new owner should be found prior to taking delivery.

Your answer re PDI is OK but...

We went thru a lot on ours.

Problem is, as newbie we had no way of doing it.



Is there any thoughts about how to get newbie's on track before they're up to their armpits in quicksand?



Something like getting every existing RV owner to tell anybody who ever asks "how do you like your zzz"?



We try to remember to talk about PDI's any time we think about it, but ancient-what's left grey mater fails to show up.



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Old 05-11-2021, 06:19 PM   #14
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Your answer re PDI is OK but...

We went thru a lot on ours.

Problem is, as newbie we had no way of doing it.



Is there any thoughts about how to get newbie's on track before they're up to their armpits in quicksand?



Something like getting every existing RV owner to tell anybody who ever asks "how do you like your zzz"?



We try to remember to talk about PDI's any time we think about it, but ancient-what's left grey mater fails to show up.



Sad part is that most of the "noobies" that you speak of don't show up here until after they're already "up to their armpits in quick sand"...


Those who do join and share their plans to buy a trailer are "almost always" directed to the PDI checklist, warned "repeatedly" to not sign anything until the trailer is in satisfactory condition and NEVER to take the dealership's word for the condition of the trailer, rather VERIFY that it meets their expectations....

Those that don't show up "until they're sinking in frustration", well, even with my Carnak cape and head dress, mayonnaise jar and the sealed envelopes, there just isn't enough "magical fortune telling capability" to get to all of them before they take that step off of firm ground.....

Some people are too trusting, some people are too cynical some people learn to be cynical after being too trusting... Most "second time RV buyers" fall into the last category.... I wish more "first time RV buyers" would learn to be a tad bit more cynical....
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Old 05-11-2021, 07:48 PM   #15
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What John said above would be right. When I bought my first trailer I had never heard of a PDI, nor for many years later. It was all by "the seat of the pants" and trial and error (and I was somewhat lucky back then).

Nowadays folks want something NOW. Go in, hear a good story, find something they've been wanting for some time and sign the dotted line. All well and good but IMO maybe folks have gotten too jaded. Our last trailer cost about 7 times what our first house cost; maybe one should put some thought into that vs just "going at it" and then bemoaning problems.

With the availability of the internet, the resources such as this forum etc., anyone thinking about any kind of purchase like that should do their homework. If not, they end up here or somewhere else with issues. Too many resources today to be caught with your drawers down on something like that IMO but it happens every day. And therefore you have folks like the ones on this forum trying to help anyone they can....because it happens.
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Old 03-29-2021, 07:29 AM   #16
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We just bought this 2021 cougar and before we even went on our first trip (currently coming home now from 3 day trip which is our first one) we have had these problems.
1) self leveling system won’t work
2) refrigerator doesn’t work
3) fresh water tank fill hose wasn’t even connected
4) shower wall wasn’t connected to the wall

Then as we right now are on the road back from our first trip we had these issues
1) leak in roof in the bathroom
2) USB ports don’t work
3) black water lever is apparently not connected so we can’t empty the tank.

Has anyone else has all these issues before even using their camper? I contacted camping word head quarters and they basically just say well tell the next person in line and call you back.
I even called Keystone and I’m still waiting for that call

Please help....
Sounds like someone didn't do a PDI... see your dealer, that's who is responsible..
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Old 03-29-2021, 08:17 AM   #17
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Several of the problems sound as if they could be as simple as a dead battery...
The fridge depends on whether it is a residential or RV style.
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Old 03-29-2021, 12:32 PM   #18
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Lots of conjecture about why the staff turnover occurred but just conjecture. Found some interesting employee reviews at:
https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Camping-World/reviews

Not all bad and I will say that folks who review a place they work at generally will have negative things to say while happy employees are just that, happy. If I had that Cougar with those issues, would schedule an appointment with the GM of the selling dealership and see if they would stand up for the issues as their dealership sold the camper. Most folks are reasonable so a reasonable tone would likely not make the meeting confrontational. And for those that blame the OP for no walk through... well, it is a first time buyer. How would a first time buyer know to do a walk through and what to look for?
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Old 03-29-2021, 02:44 PM   #19
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Lots of conjecture about why the staff turnover occurred but just conjecture. Found some interesting employee reviews at:
https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Camping-World/reviews

Not all bad and I will say that folks who review a place they work at generally will have negative things to say while happy employees are just that, happy. If I had that Cougar with those issues, would schedule an appointment with the GM of the selling dealership and see if they would stand up for the issues as their dealership sold the camper. Most folks are reasonable so a reasonable tone would likely not make the meeting confrontational. And for those that blame the OP for no walk through... well, it is a first time buyer. How would a first time buyer know to do a walk through and what to look for?
Well I wouldn't trust my mom if she was trying to sell me something. I sure ain't trusting someone I don't know trying to sell me something he don't own.
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Old 03-29-2021, 03:27 PM   #20
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Well I wouldn't trust my mom if she was trying to sell me something. I sure ain't trusting someone I don't know trying to sell me something he don't own.
Keep in mind the mentality of 1st time buyers; they have bought brand new cars in the past and just sign and go. Most never have a problem when buying a car. The poor OP learned the RV trust lesson I suspect and I suspect he, like most 1st time RV buyers thought the buying experience would be akin to a car buying experience. 1st time RVing is a learning experience and education has its costs.
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