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Old 02-14-2020, 03:38 PM   #1
Keystoned
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Next problem - Roof leak?

I am getting so pissed by what I am finding. I have a running list that is wearing me down but just noticed the bed was wet. We had rain and snow the day before so I'm thinking a leak near where the roof meets the cap. I didn't actually see the water path but there is evidence that this has been going on for a while. The wrapping has come loose and torn around some of the 'wood' pieces above the bed and closet.
So looking on the roof it appears a repair had been attempted before, with silicone! The PO swears up and down there were no leaks and everything worked and I'm calling BS. They are either ignorant, dumb or lying, maybe all 3.
Anyway. The silicone points to that joint and other areas where it was used.
Advice on repair is appreciated...
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Old 02-14-2020, 04:25 PM   #2
sourdough
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The PO made a mistake with the silicone like many do, and, doesn't sound like he fixed anything.

I'd get the silicone off (it's not easy and takes some time) then inspect those seals CLOSELY. The smallest pin hole, tiny crack, lifting along an edge...anything, can let water inside and that appears to be what you are experiencing. If the existing sealant is bad or deteriorated remove it with a plastic spatula/putty knife (not metal - it will cut the membrane). Clean all the areas with alcohol thoroughly and let dry. Apply a new bead (liberally) of Dicor self leveling sealant made for your roof material (TPO/EPDM). It will stick to the old sealant if clean and self levels/smooths out. Inspect the entire roof, seams, caulk lines, around the windows...everything to make sure all sealants are good. If it has been left out in the elements since 2015 and not taken care of there's no telling what you will find. Good luck. Oh, my 2014 has EPDM not sure what the 2015 will have.
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Old 02-15-2020, 01:31 AM   #3
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It’s very possible if that joint is leaking water air can funnel into that loose area and lift the rubber roof while towing.
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Old 02-15-2020, 04:16 AM   #4
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Search youtube for videos on leak detection or repair and dicor replacement.
If it seems too labour intensive or you're not comfortable doing it, check out RV armor.
Good luck Dan
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Old 02-15-2020, 06:42 AM   #5
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Thanks all, I usually am up for challenges but often need some encouragement and helpful tips like these.
How do I tell what kind of material my roof is?
The brochure says one piece tpo roof, but I am leary of that info.
Here is an example of the fine work, lol
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Old 02-15-2020, 08:07 AM   #6
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Not a professional opinion by any means, but that looks like a failed attempt at a roof repair that SHOULD have been done by a professional. I think you're in over your head personally. Did you buy from a dealer?
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Old 02-15-2020, 08:12 AM   #7
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Bought from a neighbor, but a stranger. Swore up and down everything worked and no leaks capped by a no BS handshake. Yes, slime do slither about...
As long as I am able, I will not pay $100/hr for stuff I can do. But I appreciate your input and hope you are wrong. Maybe I'll consult another place here that does not charge as much per hour...
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Old 02-15-2020, 08:38 AM   #8
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Looks like EDPM to me.
Roof to cap seal I take it.
Silicone will never work so that must be removed and that should be easy.
Dicor self leveling would be the fix some will suggest to replace the silicon.
But not having it where I could see it, the amount used brings ????'s
I might suggest getting 6-12" wide eternabond and sealing this whole seam, then the dicor on its edges.
But that MY opinion, other will say once you do that you'll never be able to access underneath it. But the leak maybe fixed forever.
Again MY opinion dicor is temporary, mine new I did both ends like my suggestion. I dont want to wait for a leak, I wanted to stop it from happening and if I ever need to get underneath, I'll cut the rubber roof, remove whatever problem and put in a new piece and seal it the same way.
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Old 02-15-2020, 08:55 AM   #9
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Nothing will stick to silicone that is made for a rubber roof. I would scrape as much silicone off as possible let area dry out . I used thin sheets of aluminum 4 x 8 cut them to fit along the front seem . I think 10 inch by 8 ft 1/8 aluminum strip pre drilled holes I went ever 4 inches useing SS 1 in screws I ordered dicor caulk Sealing and exing the bottom plate . Silicone Has to be off the cap before the dicor will stick .
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Old 02-15-2020, 09:00 AM   #10
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Nothing will stick to silicone that is made for a rubber roof. I would scrape as much silicone off as possible let area dry out . I used thin sheets of aluminum 4 x 8 cut them to fit along the front seem . I think 10 inch by 8 ft 1/8 aluminum strip pre drilled holes I went ever 4 inches useing SS 1 in screws I ordered dicor caulk Sealing and exing the bottom plate . Silicone Has to be off the cap before the dicor will stick .
Looking at again I would cut all that back and use the aluminum technique . I have don’t it with good Success.
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Old 02-15-2020, 09:07 AM   #11
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The PO made a mistake with the silicone like many do, and, doesn't sound like he fixed anything.

I'd get the silicone off (it's not easy and takes some time) then inspect those seals CLOSELY. The smallest pin hole, tiny crack, lifting along an edge...anything, can let water inside and that appears to be what you are experiencing. If the existing sealant is bad or deteriorated remove it with a plastic spatula/putty knife (not metal - it will cut the membrane). Clean all the areas with alcohol thoroughly and let dry. Apply a new bead (liberally) of Dicor self leveling sealant made for your roof material (TPO/EPDM). It will stick to the old sealant if clean and self levels/smooths out. Inspect the entire roof, seams, caulk lines, around the windows...everything to make sure all sealants are good. If it has been left out in the elements since 2015 and not taken care of there's no telling what you will find. Good luck. Oh, my 2014 has EPDM not sure what the 2015 will have.

Roadglide brings up a good point that I failed to clarify. The highlighted statement above was assuming all silicone was removed which I failed to state. As Roadglide said, the Dicor will not stick to the silicone if left in place and just "cleaned".
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Old 02-15-2020, 09:41 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Keystoned View Post
Bought from a neighbor, but a stranger. Swore up and down everything worked and no leaks capped by a no BS handshake. Yes, slime do slither about...
As long as I am able, I will not pay $100/hr for stuff I can do. But I appreciate your input and hope you are wrong. Maybe I'll consult another place here that does not charge as much per hour...
I am a professional in the motorcycle world and when someone tells me "The previous owner told me"... well, same thing. They were selling and you are buying and many sellers are folks with no character or moral compass.

Eternabond was mentioned. I would try and get the silicon up before putting the Eternabond on if you go that route. Found this on youtube:



Guy in the video likely had less patience than me even (hard to ever find someone with less). He likely should have cleaned the area and let the remover sit for awhile rather than start poking at it immediately. The website for the product may give a customer support number if the directions weren't clear. I would also ask them how the stuff reacts with your type of roof and do a SMALL test spot as it might not be good for your roof.
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Old 02-15-2020, 09:49 AM   #13
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Any way he chooses as a solution, the silicone must be removed. I dont think anyone said otherwise. And that should be pretty easy since it doesnt stick well.
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Old 02-15-2020, 12:15 PM   #14
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All good suggestions, I appreciate them. This will become priority 1 with silicon removal then go from there. I can use a tarp when weather moves in
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Old 02-16-2020, 04:30 PM   #15
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First, I've NEVER seen a beige EPDM roof on any Outback. The EPDM roofing material used on Outback trailers is white. The last EPDM membrane I've seen on any Outback is in model year 2012, although I heard that some trailers were produced in 2013 with EPDM. All of the 2014 and newer Outbacks that I've seen have all had TPO membrane on the roof. The ONLY beige roofing material I've ever seen is TPO.

That said, you can pull the plastic molding from the bathroom exhaust fan (4 #2 Roberts screws) and you'll find the roofing material stapled to the wooden framing for the exhaust fan. Pull the couple of staples and you can see the back side of the roofing membrane. If the membrane is BLACK with a white coating on top, it's EPDM. If the roofing membrane is the same color on both sides, it's TPO. Easy to check and be certain what is on your trailer, however, there is virtually no difference in the sealant used for EPDM and TPO membrane patching. Both can be used, but the EPDM sealant has a "tad bit more dispersant agent" in it. That is the agent that keeps the sealant "pliable and flowing" from the tube. As soon as it is applied, the dispersant begins to evaporate. The additional dispersant can (not will) cause the TPO membrane to swell slightly. Once the dispersant evaporates, there is no difference in the two sealants. However, the TPO membrane "MIGHT" (not will) bulge and/or "ripple" from the additional dispersant.

The "rippling" is cosmetic only, there is NO damage to the membrane function, so there is no reason to "fear" using either type of DICOR sealant on either type of membrane.....

That said, if the silicone was applied over the DICOR sealant, then using a plastic scraper you can remove all of the silicone by removing the DICOR under it. Then, apply a fresh layer of DICOR (or Alpha-Systems) self leveling sealant, being sure to apply the new coating to FULLY cover the old coating and also overlap the edge margins by about 3/8" or 1/2" on all edges. That overlapping will provide for a fresh adhesion beyond where the old layer was applied. This is one time when "more is better". As the sealant cures, it will flatten and level itself to fully cover all of the old sealant surface PLUS overlap to fresh areas, completely sealing the entire surface.

If there is no mechanical damage to the area, the above should be all you need to do. If there is damage to the TPO membrane or to the "joiner strip" between the roof and the front cap, then you'll need to work on that before applying any sealant. My guess is that if the screws are intact, tight and there is no visible damage, then the joiner strip "should" be OK. In that case, all you'll need to do is spend "lots of sweat-equity" in removing all the old silicone, a portion of the underlying DICOR sealant (so you know all the silicone is removed) and then clean thoroughly, apply new sealant and wait for it to cure (48 hours or so)… However, it will be "sticky and roll under your finger" for probably 6-8 weeks after application...
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Old 02-16-2020, 06:10 PM   #16
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I strongly urge you to consider Eternabond. It is powerful stuff and easy to apply (after proper surface preparation. )
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Old 02-16-2020, 06:20 PM   #17
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I strongly urge you to consider Eternabond. It is powerful stuff and easy to apply (after proper surface preparation. )
Eternabond won't stick to the silicone that is currently on the roof. ANYTHING he does will first require cleaning ALL of the silicone off the roof structure. At this point, "slapping a strip of eternabond over what's currently there" will just make for a "goatroping event" while he's trying to "catch a greased pig at the rodeo"... Yes, that's exactly the kind of frustration he'll face if he "cleans the surface and uses that "powerful stuff that's easy to apply"..... As soon as a bit of moisture works up from below the surface, the eternabond is going to release adhesion at the silicone surface and he's going to "start all over again with wet trim boards inside his trailer....
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Old 02-16-2020, 06:26 PM   #18
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Hence the "after proper surface preparation " comment.
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Old 02-16-2020, 06:45 PM   #19
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Hence the "after proper surface preparation " comment.
Not here to poke, prod or argue, but after proper surface preparation, I would think the factory original install would be best. I’ve done my share of roof repairs and Eternabond is the last “fix” considered. Once it’s applied, it doesn’t lend itself to repairs. You can apply several tubes of Dicor or Alpha systems sealant and it will all come back off with little effort compared to the tape.

To each their own, but after years in the RV business, when I see eternabond and a leak in the same area, I cringe.
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Old 02-16-2020, 06:53 PM   #20
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Hence the "after proper surface preparation " comment.
As Chuck just stated, anyone who has been around RV's for any length of time AND has had to repair a roof with eternabond on it will tell you that using that crap (thinking it's a good way to fix a roof quickly and easily) will make the subsequent repairs significantly more difficult.

Put another way, getting eternabond off a roof to fix a leak will make even a preacher cuss....

From a marketing perspective, eternabond sounds "real good" but from a repair perspective, it's the VERY LAST DAMN THING you want to be working with "after it's stuck on a roof by someone who believes the marketing BS".....
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