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Old 02-16-2020, 02:23 PM   #1
chunker
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Raptor A/C heat strip

In a Keystone Raptor are any of the air conditioners compatible with installing a heat strip? Not heat pump, but heat strip. And will the touch pad controller recognize it and allow a heat function from the heat strip rather than firing up the furnace? What model Coleman air conditioners are installed in the newer Raptors, 356?
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Old 02-16-2020, 07:14 PM   #2
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Since yours is ordered, I would suspect a quick call to the dealer and they could look up the order/build sheet. Once you have model numbers then you can look at the manufacturers web site and determine that. If you getting “in command” a call to ASA electronics should clear up any programming questions.
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Old 02-16-2020, 07:26 PM   #3
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Since yours is ordered, I would suspect a quick call to the dealer and they could look up the order/build sheet. Once you have model numbers then you can look at the manufacturers web site and determine that. If you getting “in command” a call to ASA electronics should clear up any programming questions.
Thanks I am going to swing by there in a couple days and will see what they can find out. I did ask a factory rep on the phone about having a heat pump installed instead of the air conditioner and they won't do that on a Raptor. Funny cause it's an option on a Montana.

Plan B is a small space heater to break the chill along with the fireplace.
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Old 02-16-2020, 07:35 PM   #4
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If I remember right, there is a lot of posts on the forum saying the heat strip isn’t worth it.
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Old 02-16-2020, 07:40 PM   #5
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If I remember right, there is a lot of posts on the forum saying the heat strip isn’t worth it.
Probably true and I also saw a comment that they only worked with direct dump type units. Who knows, I read it on the internet. Wish they would have put in the heat PUMP though. I assume the 1 command in a Montana is like that in the Raptor so to my small mind I don't see an issue except interrupting the schedule as it goes down the line. I'll manage.
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Old 02-17-2020, 03:48 AM   #6
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I have a heat strip in my Impact. You'll be happier with a oil filled heater on the floor of the slightly insulated garage.
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Old 02-17-2020, 09:39 AM   #7
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...I did ask a factory rep on the phone about having a heat pump installed instead of the air conditioner and they won't do that on a Raptor. Funny cause it's an option on a Montana...
We have a 2018 Raptor 353TS with 3 A/C units. They are all Coleman Airxcel Mach 15 units. I think the garage unit is a "direct dump" type, but I'm not sure. [We have iN.Command, but the heating & AC are not controlled by iN.Command. It uses a wall mounted RV ComfortZC thermostat for contol.]

The unit in the garage will act as a heater. On the thermostat, for Zone 3 (garage), I have a choice of "gas" or "elect" heat. If I pick gas, nothing happens. If I pick "elect", it warms up the garage, but I haven't used it enough to make a recommendation either way. I assume this is from a heat strip since the 3 A/C units all have the same model number (and near sequential serial numbers).
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Old 02-17-2020, 10:41 AM   #8
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We have a 2018 Raptor 353TS with 3 A/C units. They are all Coleman Airxcel Mach 15 units. I think the garage unit is a "direct dump" type, but I'm not sure. [We have iN.Command, but the heating & AC are not controlled by iN.Command. It uses a wall mounted RV ComfortZC thermostat for contol.]

The unit in the garage will act as a heater. On the thermostat, for Zone 3 (garage), I have a choice of "gas" or "elect" heat. If I pick gas, nothing happens. If I pick "elect", it warms up the garage, but I haven't used it enough to make a recommendation either way. I assume this is from a heat strip since the 3 A/C units all have the same model number (and near sequential serial numbers).
Interesting thanks. I spoke with ASA about the in command and compatibility of a heat PUMP. Would require a programming update but doable. Might be the cost of a heat pump is prohibitive but I'm researching that. Trying to get hold of dealer to find where in the process the build is. If early in the build, I might, just guessing, be able to do an air conditioner delete (main) and install a heat pump locally. Then reprogram in command. I also might be getting in over my head with this and still don't understand why a heat pump is standard in a Montana but can't get in supposed higher end toy hauler Raptor.
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Old 02-19-2020, 08:48 AM   #9
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Interesting thanks. ... and still don't understand why a heat pump is standard in a Montana but can't get in supposed higher end toy hauler Raptor.
You can't special order a F250 steering wheel in a F150 truck either, regardless of which trim level you buy. One of the big marketing factors at Keystone is that they don't have an "extended options list" (to keep prices down). They just "build em all the same way" and charge a cheaper price than the competition who has a "long list of optional equipment and even custom interior colors"..... All of those "choices offered to a few" cause "price increases in production for everyone"....

Keystone simply does not offer "custom trailer builds" even with something as simple as "can I special order Goodyear Endurance tires?"
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Old 02-20-2020, 02:12 AM   #10
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You can't special order a F250 steering wheel in a F150 truck either, regardless of which trim level you buy. One of the big marketing factors at Keystone is that they don't have an "extended options list" (to keep prices down). They just "build em all the same way" and charge a cheaper price than the competition who has a "long list of optional equipment and even custom interior colors"..... All of those "choices offered to a few" cause "price increases in production for everyone"....

Keystone simply does not offer "custom trailer builds" even with something as simple as "can I special order Goodyear Endurance tires?"
I partially agree with part of your comments. Reference pricing, Keystone does not make it easy to determine what a particular build will cost. Grand Design "Build and Price" feature lets you select the various options and the program updates the build with the added options. A potential buyer can build and price his trailer and know what the MSRP is, GD rules do not let dealer publish discounted pricing on current year models. Worst kept secret is generally 25-35% off of that figure. GD readily makes changes to builds non-standard adding such as the front step swap.

Since the Keystone MSRP is hidden at the dealer's office, its difficult to make an apples-apples comparison. Only way is get a dealers build sheet to see what's on it and the costs.

My obversation is the Raptor isn't cheaper than the competition. I was comparing the Momentum 351M to the Raptor 356. Identical floor plans and furnishings. Tanks size very close, different colors a bit but not wildly different. Raptor has more standard equipment, 3 TVs as opposes to 1 main in Momentum. Momentum may have come with 2 a/c with optional 3rd. The examples I looked on line were priced more that the GD Momentum 351.

At a FL dealer he connected me with a company rep "BS" and we talked over an hour. I asked abut the heat pump option, certain deletions that dealers usually order and the biggie, deleting the solid steps and installing the older 4 step aluminum steps in its place. The rep said it could be done but no one had asked for that before. Some other chit chat relative to a build and it was a good conversation. A few days later I found out my preferred dealer in south AL had the raptors so went to talk to them. In the meantime I sat down with build sheets, delivery options and came up with a trailer I wanted to order. At the AL dealer we did the obvious chit chat and got to business. I gave them "offers" from down south and asked for better with this specific build

Pricing on the Raptor is not less that an equivalent Momentum M, higher in fact with what I assembled. It's not all about pricing.

2 days ago I go into the dealer to see if they know anything about where it might be in the build. There had been a statement that the build was inserted in an existing line and couldn't get the steps in. They would fix at the dealer. Then I find out it hasn't been assigned a VIN which apparently means it's still on paper, not the floor. If it's still on paper why are the dodging the step issue since they said they would. The call 2 days ago he had a bad connection and we lost it. I called back and left a voice mail which wasn't returned. Next day same thing. I'll try one more time today. Not very encouraging customer service to the customer before the sale. What's it like after a sale. I was a also going to ask when the estimates are for it be assigned a VIN and start their assembly but can' t get him again.

Perhaps most people take what's on the lot and live with it. I have but also like the option to personalize it my specs.I don't like being told one thing and find out a different. I suppose if this decays much further then maybe cancel the build and buy a used what I want on a lot or private sale.
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Old 02-20-2020, 07:15 AM   #11
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I partially agree with part of your comments. Reference pricing, Keystone does not make it easy to determine what a particular build will cost. Grand Design "Build and Price" feature lets you select the various options and the program updates the build with the added options. A potential buyer can build and price his trailer and know what the MSRP is, GD rules do not let dealer publish discounted pricing on current year models. Worst kept secret is generally 25-35% off of that figure. GD readily makes changes to builds non-standard adding such as the front step swap.

Since the Keystone MSRP is hidden at the dealer's office, its difficult to make an apples-apples comparison. Only way is get a dealers build sheet to see what's on it and the costs.

My obversation is the Raptor isn't cheaper than the competition. I was comparing the Momentum 351M to the Raptor 356. Identical floor plans and furnishings. Tanks size very close, different colors a bit but not wildly different. Raptor has more standard equipment, 3 TVs as opposes to 1 main in Momentum. Momentum may have come with 2 a/c with optional 3rd. The examples I looked on line were priced more that the GD Momentum 351.

At a FL dealer he connected me with a company rep "BS" and we talked over an hour. I asked abut the heat pump option, certain deletions that dealers usually order and the biggie, deleting the solid steps and installing the older 4 step aluminum steps in its place. The rep said it could be done but no one had asked for that before. Some other chit chat relative to a build and it was a good conversation. A few days later I found out my preferred dealer in south AL had the raptors so went to talk to them. In the meantime I sat down with build sheets, delivery options and came up with a trailer I wanted to order. At the AL dealer we did the obvious chit chat and got to business. I gave them "offers" from down south and asked for better with this specific build

Pricing on the Raptor is not less that an equivalent Momentum M, higher in fact with what I assembled. It's not all about pricing.

2 days ago I go into the dealer to see if they know anything about where it might be in the build. There had been a statement that the build was inserted in an existing line and couldn't get the steps in. They would fix at the dealer. Then I find out it hasn't been assigned a VIN which apparently means it's still on paper, not the floor. If it's still on paper why are the dodging the step issue since they said they would. The call 2 days ago he had a bad connection and we lost it. I called back and left a voice mail which wasn't returned. Next day same thing. I'll try one more time today. Not very encouraging customer service to the customer before the sale. What's it like after a sale. I was a also going to ask when the estimates are for it be assigned a VIN and start their assembly but can' t get him again.

Perhaps most people take what's on the lot and live with it. I have but also like the option to personalize it my specs.I don't like being told one thing and find out a different. I suppose if this decays much further then maybe cancel the build and buy a used what I want on a lot or private sale.
Take a look at the bolded statements from your post. To me, this more or less exemplifies what I've been saying: Keystone doesn't do custom orders beyond what is in their brochure list of "options".

I'd make a "WAG" that the bad connection, the talk with the company rep and the lack of return calls are "an indication of what you can expect after the sale"...…

From what little I know about the "inner workings at Keystone" if I were you, I wouldn't expect to walk in one day to find a trailer with all the "gee gaws" you want added and find it sitting there, ready for you to tow away. As I said, "Keystone doesn't offer customization on the assembly line" and you'll get a "standard build trailer delivered to the dealer for them to customize for you"....
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Old 02-20-2020, 07:37 AM   #12
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Take a look at the bolded statements from your post. To me, this more or less exemplifies what I've been saying: Keystone doesn't do custom orders beyond what is in their brochure list of "options".

I'd make a "WAG" that the bad connection, the talk with the company rep and the lack of return calls are "an indication of what you can expect after the sale"...…

From what little I know about the "inner workings at Keystone" if I were you, I wouldn't expect to walk in one day to find a trailer with all the "gee gaws" you want added and find it sitting there, ready for you to tow away. As I said, "Keystone doesn't offer customization on the assembly line" and you'll get a "standard build trailer delivered to the dealer for them to customize for you"....
Thanks for the reply. I've been around the block enough to know that things promised don't happen and "stuff happens". I would think that customer service would be on best for forward before the sale. I expect that when the trailer arrives, the dealer will do a fairly thorough PDI but I still expect to spend considerable time on my own in, on, and under it. Customer service might be on par with professional wiring in most builds. SOB touts above average CS on what's really an average build for the price point. The CS is an after the sale response which gets a lot of compliments.

My concern is when dealing with a factory rep "BS" who tells me one thing then seems to not tell me the same thing later, I'll never know what is truth or a convenient statement at the time. BS is initials, not an editorially derived term for the quality of the call. I'll try one more call today and if no response by late afternoon, get with the owner of the dealership to find out what's going on and get some answers. If the trailer arrived without the correct and agreed upon steps installed, that's a manageable issue. If other changes I made, all within the normal option selection and ordering process, are wrong, then we have another issue. I am not requesting a custom build, but good builders can make minor changes as a unit moves down the line and they SHOULD if they state they can and will.

Reading here it seems to imply that after the sale I'll be on my own as far as Keystone/Thor goes and unless I have a dealer who is up to the task, I may be screwed. Lot of money for a screw job. But hopefully things will go well, I'll sleep good on the replacement mattress.
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Old 02-20-2020, 09:13 AM   #13
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BS is initials, not an editorially derived term for the quality of the call. I'll try one more call today and if no response by late afternoon, get with the owner of the dealership to find out what's going on and get some answers.

But hopefully things will go well, I'll sleep good on the replacement mattress.
Good news today, I just spoke to BS and the trailer went to paint yesterday. It had moved down the line past the stage where steps could be changed but frankly they really don't want to do that. It does surprise me that no one else has asked for that change since it's a common complaint on several forums. That said if dealerships say can't be done, probably no one asks the factory. But all will be well as the dealer will take care of it. I'm already mapping out my 2 shake down cruises and the extended summer trip away from the heat and humidity of SE AL.
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Old 02-27-2020, 10:01 AM   #14
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Our Fuzion....
2 Coleman AC units. Both connected to the Racetrack vents in the roof and both have direct dump option.
We have 2 separate thermostats....one each unit.
Front AC has no heat strip but can be added. Front thermostat Heat function turns on furnace. Have to test the wire plug inside the Mach Coleman AC unit to see it it also still activates the heat strip (which as I said isn't there)
Rear AC has heat strip that the rear thermostat turns on.
Heat strip cold air into a little less cold air. Doesn't heat anything.

Our electric fireplace heats the main living area set to 70* and on Low nicely. Only turn the furnace on for when we sleep at night or during dry camping. But the coldest we been in was low 40's high 30's. And the heat strip didn't make any improvement at those outside temps. So if you plan on colder, an on another heat source
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Old 02-27-2020, 12:56 PM   #15
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If you check the cost of heating in almost all parts of the country heat pump is cheapest, LP next and electric is highest. Of course it doesn't matter if you don't pay the electric. Where we are currently the heat pump costs 30% less than LP. this is at 14 cents/KW and $2.24/gallon LP. also might vary if your newer furnace is more efficient than 2011. There are calculators on line to make it an easy calculation. I have used the same xls for so long I can't offer a link, sorry.
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