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Old 08-15-2020, 11:31 AM   #1
IMASAP
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Accidentally Pressurised The Black Tank... Where Would It Leak First ?

So, made a foolish mistake while camping this week. Dumped the tanks and decided to do a black tank flush. Walked away to start a campfire with the hose on to the black tank rinser… gate valve closed. Started fire, headed back to shut the rinser off and open the gate valve to the black tank and heard a 'woosh' as a bunch of water ran out from the coroplast just as I was about to open the gate valve. Obviously, being distracted, I pressurized my black tank with the rinser… stupid mistake. I also found water on the bathroom floor, which I sopped up with a towel. So, not knowing exactly where the water came out, we didn't use the toilet for the last three days we camped. Fortunately, I had dumped and rinsed several times before I got distracted and caused the tank to get pressurized, so the water that came out was pretty clean.

So, now home, I have loosened and pulled down the coroplast under the rear of the trailer to figure out where my leak is. I connected my hose to the black tank rinse and turned the water on. Nothing.... no drip anywhere so far. I haven't filled the black tank to the top yet, but I'm wondering where the water would have come out when I mistakenly pressurized my black tank?? Obviously, don't want to remove the tank if I don't have to. Can someone make an educated guess where the water exited ?

Trailer is a 2015 Bullet 243bhs.

Thanks in advance.

P.S. Obviously, the water did not exit the vent on the roof.
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Old 08-15-2020, 11:42 AM   #2
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You may have gotten lucky and the water pushed past the rubber seal where the toilet drain goes into the tank. Try this:

Hook up the hose to the city water connection, then using a wedge or a length of 3” ABS pipe, hold the toilet bowl open. Watch until the water level reaches the base of the toilet. At that point you will have as much water as the tank is designed to hold. If it doesn’t leak, go buy a lottery ticket.
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Old 08-15-2020, 11:58 AM   #3
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Chuckster…. that is what I am thinking also. Or...… is there a gasket where the bowl meets the base of the toilet where water could pass? I don't yet own an inspection camera of any kind, but this may be my excuse to purchase one.
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Old 08-15-2020, 12:06 PM   #4
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Depending on how Keystone puts trailers together, there could be an ABS fitting glued to the black tank or a rubber ring that the toilet drain seals to. There is a “gasket” where the toilet attaches to the floor much like the wax ring in houses. There should be a floor flange in the trailer bathroom, and once you take the toilet out you should be able to remove the screws holding it to the floor.

At that point you’ll know how it’s put together, a camera won’t tell you because the drain pipe will extend into the black tank if it’s got a rubber ring. But DW doesn’t need to know, so you can still buy one
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Old 08-15-2020, 01:05 PM   #5
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Unless you have changed it that trailer probably came with a Thetford toilet. I got rid of the Thetfords, including the new one in my current trailer, but one of the reasons was the leak at the base of the bowl where it transitions to the plastic pedestal (ceramic bowl). It would leak there. That might possibly play into your situation. Can't remember if it was replaceable; seems either it or Dometic is non replaceable (I believe it is the Dometic) but if that is really an issue and it is a Thetford I would put in the Dometic and not look back.
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Old 08-15-2020, 01:20 PM   #6
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Black tanks are vented all the way to the roof. Unless your vent was completely clogged shut, your black tank cannot pressurize. If you put that much water into the tank and kept pumping it in, it would spew out the top, over the roof, and down the sides of your camper, and you'd know it!

More than likely, the seal around your toilet is not sealed very good, and when the tank became full and attempted to back up into the toilet, it leaked around the seal of the toilet (on the floor), and then into the underbelly. Under normal conditions, it would never leak. But with some pressure in the tank, pushing water up the vent, it could have been enough to leak around the toilet seals.

You did no damage to the tank or plumbing. You'd have to put a lot of PSI in the tank to cause it to break, as well as the pipes. But gaskets on the floor where a toilet wiggles when the trailer is in motion, COULD leak with a back flushing effect under even minor pressure.

Check the seal under your toilet. I imagine you'll find the leak there.

Fill the tank with water and bring the water all the way UP into the toilet bowl and let it sit. See if the seals on the floor start leaking water.
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Old 08-15-2020, 01:45 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchmensport View Post
Black tanks are vented all the way to the roof. Unless your vent was completely clogged shut, your black tank cannot pressurize. If you put that much water into the tank and kept pumping it in, it would spew out the top, over the roof, and down the sides of your camper, and you'd know it!

More than likely, the seal around your toilet is not sealed very good, and when the tank became full and attempted to back up into the toilet, it leaked around the seal of the toilet (on the floor), and then into the underbelly. Under normal conditions, it would never leak. But with some pressure in the tank, pushing water up the vent, it could have been enough to leak around the toilet seals.

You did no damage to the tank or plumbing. You'd have to put a lot of PSI in the tank to cause it to break, as well as the pipes. But gaskets on the floor where a toilet wiggles when the trailer is in motion, COULD leak with a back flushing effect under even minor pressure.

Check the seal under your toilet. I imagine you'll find the leak there.

Fill the tank with water and bring the water all the way UP into the toilet bowl and let it sit. See if the seals on the floor start leaking water.
I would agree...but if the vent pipe is extended too far into the tank, it will pressurize. Seen it and had to fix it a few times.
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Old 08-15-2020, 01:48 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchmensport View Post

You did no damage to the tank or plumbing. You'd have to put a lot of PSI in the tank to cause it to break, as well as the pipes. But gaskets on the floor where a toilet wiggles when the trailer is in motion, COULD leak with a back flushing effect under even minor pressure.

So I filled the toilet up to about floor level, and I now have a tiny drip …………. drip ………… drip rolling down the black tank and onto the coroplast. I'm assuming this is coming from the gasket at the base of the toilet. Drained it down some..... toilet will be coming out.

I appreciate the replies. Of course I was fearing the worst while at the campground...…. that somehow I split the tank or something. I know this defies logic, since the tank is vented..... but...…
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Old 08-15-2020, 02:53 PM   #9
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Removed the toilet..... I feel I can see where water might have been able to get past the base gasket and end up on the floor. The gasket was not perfectly even where it was squashed into the flange (about 7 or 8 o'clock in the pic).

This flange is glued into the tank inlet, correct ?? Removed the screws in the floor and pulled on the flange and it's not budging. I don't want to pry on it ( to see what seals the flange into the tank. If this is glued into the tank inlet, I'm at a loss as to where my little drip drip is coming from. Any leak at the top of the tank should automatically end up on my bathroom floor..... which it's not.

This would leave my drip coming from where? A leak at the junction of the vent and the tank, or a crack in my tank ( which I can't imagine ) ??
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Old 08-15-2020, 03:14 PM   #10
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Did you try using prybars on each side of the flange at the same time? You might try twisting the flange, I use a large adjustable pliers with a pry bar to twist.

Open the pliers and put the handles in opposite slots and then use a prybar to twist.
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Old 08-16-2020, 04:43 AM   #11
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I pretty much agree with what has been said, especially about s**t-canning the Thetford. Also keep in mind that assuming the vent stack is NOT clogged that the black tank will pressurize approximately 4-5 pounds, plenty of pressure to make your toilet fittings leak. Thanks for keeping us up on your progress.
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Old 08-16-2020, 05:17 AM   #12
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Never walk away from a black tank flush without a TIMER set on your smart phone! I figure 4 minutes is a safe amount of time.
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Old 08-16-2020, 06:46 AM   #13
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The abs plastic toilet flange on mine is threaded. Trying to pry it out is not a good idea. They sell both Male and female threaded flanges.
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Old 08-16-2020, 06:59 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckster57 View Post
Did you try using prybars on each side of the flange at the same time? You might try twisting the flange, I use a large adjustable pliers with a pry bar to twist.

Open the pliers and put the handles in opposite slots and then use a prybar to twist.
Chuckster, are the toilet flanges always threaded in ? Or, should it be, being a 2015MY ? I watched some videos on removing RV toilet flanges, and it looks like a lot are destroyed in the process of removal.

Lets say for the sake of argument, that slight drip I saw when I filled (or maybe slightly overfilled, while testing at home) the tank is coming from where the flange / tank thread together. I'm thinking about using fine sandpaper to clean where the flange / tank meet, and rub a layer of sealant (silicone?) on that joint. I realize this may not be the 'right' way, but I'm very hesitant to try to remove the toilet flange..... especially since I'm not 100% sure that is where my drip is from (though, at this point seems most logical). I think reality is, it would be highly unusual for the black tank to ever be filled to that joint in regular use.
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Old 08-16-2020, 07:03 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notanlines View Post
I pretty much agree with what has been said, especially about s**t-canning the Thetford. Also keep in mind that assuming the vent stack is NOT clogged that the black tank will pressurize approximately 4-5 pounds, plenty of pressure to make your toilet fittings leak. Thanks for keeping us up on your progress.
The toilet is a Dometic, for what it's worth. It is plastic though. I'd like to replace with porcelain, but I don't feel it is in the budget this week.
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Old 08-16-2020, 07:08 AM   #16
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Never walk away from a black tank flush without a TIMER set on your smart phone! I figure 4 minutes is a safe amount of time.

Yeah, I know this. Since we have owned this I have never left it before. Not sure what I was thinking when I walked away from it..... trying to save a couple minutes getting the campfire going so my son could make his smores, I guess. Definitely a stupid mistake. One I have learned something from. Just the way my luck goes, I was literally three steps from the black tank handle when I head the woosh and watched the water come out from the coroplast.
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Old 08-16-2020, 07:25 AM   #17
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The toilet is a Dometic, for what it's worth. It is plastic though. I'd like to replace with porcelain, but I don't feel it is in the budget this week.
The Dometic 300 is a "plastic, lighter and cheaper version" of the Dometic 310 which has the ceramic bowl. They are interchangeable, so when your budget agrees with your mod list, changeout is fairly easy. The Dometic 320 is similar to the 310 but with a "overhanging top rim" and an elongated bowl.

At this point, with a "slight drip being the only problem" I'd be inclined to "reinstall the current toilet WITH A NEW TANK/TOILET GASKET.... See if it leaks and go from there....

If you're not sure of how your toilet flange connects to the black tank, you risk a significant "breakage repair bill" if you keep trying to remove it without knowing if it's "glued in" or "screwed in" or "pressure fitted in".... I wouldn't "break the black tank trying to fix the toilet flange" without knowing positively that there is a problem there.....

The new toilet flange gasket "OEM" costs about $25. You can get an aftermarket seal from Amazon for $13: https://www.amazon.com/Dometic-Compa...xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

ADDED: OOPS !!! I think I inadvertently listed the link and price for the "toilet bowl seal" not the floor flange seal.... The correct part is this: https://www.amazon.com/Dometic-38531...ag=googhydr-20 and the price is $26. Still a lot cheaper than replacing the black tank if you break it !!!!!
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Old 08-16-2020, 08:21 AM   #18
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Just a couple gratuitous shots from our trip to No. Conway, NH where this mishap occurred. For anyone coming to New England, I highly recommend it. I rarely seem to get around to posting pics here, so here are a couple.....
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Old 08-16-2020, 09:15 AM   #19
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Yeah, I know this. Since we have owned this I have never left it before. Not sure what I was thinking when I walked away from it..... trying to save a couple minutes getting the campfire going so my son could make his smores, I guess. Definitely a stupid mistake. One I have learned something from. Just the way my luck goes, I was literally three steps from the black tank handle when I head the woosh and watched the water come out from the coroplast.

I've followed this but I'm still wondering how a small leak, from the toilet gasket (on top of the floor) would fill up the coroplast enough to make a "whoosh" sound and not cover the floor? When the yard people inadvertently turned on our black tank flush earlier this year it came out from under the toilet and ran all over the floor and under the walls.

If the tank completely filled up to the level of the toilet reckon something let go? Since the coroplast has been pulled down I think I would fill the tank to the bottom of the toilet and see if there is a leak. Destroying the flange and/or tank connections looking for the unknown could be costly. As has been said it is pretty much a closed system (excluding vent) and enough water to suddenly make a whoosh sound seems to indicate more than a gasket leak.
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Old 08-16-2020, 10:58 AM   #20
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I've followed this but I'm still wondering how a small leak, from the toilet gasket (on top of the floor) would fill up the coroplast enough to make a "whoosh" sound and not cover the floor? When the yard people inadvertently turned on our black tank flush earlier this year it came out from under the toilet and ran all over the floor and under the walls.

If the tank completely filled up to the level of the toilet reckon something let go? Since the coroplast has been pulled down I think I would fill the tank to the bottom of the toilet and see if there is a leak. Destroying the flange and/or tank connections looking for the unknown could be costly. As has been said it is pretty much a closed system (excluding vent) and enough water to suddenly make a whoosh sound seems to indicate more than a gasket leak.
You are welcome to insert any sound you like for the water releasing and running onto the ground. As I mentioned in my original post, there was water all over the bathroom floor, which I had to sop up with a towel (towels, actually). I believe at this point, it was that water in the bathroom running down through a pass through hole in the floor for plumbing or electrical, that ran down on top of the coroplast… and finally dripped down onto the ground. I believe this is much like you described being done by yard people.

So far, I think we are on the same page.
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