Floor repair on Bullet

[kcamp99186]

I have a 2015 30RIPR as well and my floor has been going soft for 2 years now. Keeps getting worse. The affected area is between the slide outs, all around the island. Was thinking of supporting the slides and removing/replacing the floor, but am now considering trading it for something with a real floor. Might change my mind if Keystone is making repairs under a warranty or defect status.

[Roose17]

Got word from Keystone warranty on our repair. The cause was a faulty seal on the main entry door and the belt line skirt molding along parts of the trailer. Once water penetrated the unit the paper layer and the thin particle board soaked it up like a sponge. The new hyper-deck is not supposed to wick water like the old style.

However the true problem with the 2017-2018 units is not the flooring, but the seals ( or lack of ) which allowed water to penetrate the unit.

[danf]

Originally Posted by mikec557

I don't want to step on anyone's toes, but I read a couple comments saying the floor is "cardboard". Is it not in fact luan? Luan being an actual wood product similar to a very thin layer of plywood.

Regarding the plastic flooring layers that took the place of luan, our 2020 Cougar 26RBSWE was made in 10/2019. We have the darco covered luan. I don't know when Keystone began using the new plastic.

Yeah I call it cardboard. It's actually luan type of material that has outer cardboard layers with wood in the middle. It's like you took a piece of luan and then applied a thin layer of shoebox cardboard to the outside surfaces. The unfortunate thing is the cardboard layer (since it's on the outside surface) is what is glued to the styrofoam and frame members to make the floor sandwich. When water hits that cardboard, it just disintegrates and delaminates while also acting as a sponge. Imagine leaving a shoebox or cereal box outside in the rain. That's what happens to it. The "cardboard" floor is what it is and it would be mostly fine except that it has zero tolerance for getting wet.



I don't know when they switched to the new floor. I seem to recall reading that it was mid 2020 model year.

[DCARLTON]

I would call it cardboard or worse. These are pics of mine before it went back

The first 3 pictures are from the bottom looking up, the 4th picture was underneath the flooring (topside)







This was inside

[stockboro]

Originally Posted by DCARLTON

I can't wait to hear the cause. My 30RIPR is an opposing slide with an island in the middle. The damage on mine was behind the island, in the middle of the room, no water source around and hard to believe that water came from the tires. Someone I met on Facebook with the exact same model, his was in front of the island, in the middle of the room, no where near a water source.

Middle of the room water could be from a slide. We discovered the large slide on our 2018 29rld Cougar was missing both the outside and inside slide seals from the factory. Water was in the middle of the floor after a rain when the big slide was retracted in. Don't think the floor was damaged, but the cabenets have damage next to the floor where they soaked up the water and split.

[kenm500]

2017 Premier 29rkpr. Numerous soft spots without evidence of water coming in anywhere. Several dealers have told me its a known problem and factory defect. However being outside the 1 year warranty, I'm told I don't have many options. The dealers won't fix it because they would need to replace the entire floor, it it's simply not worth it. So basically I have a 3 year old trailer that looks brand new except for the floor.....and it's WORTHLESS! Keystone should be ashamed! Does anyone else have the same issue? Any recommendations out there

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by kenm500

2017 Premier 29rkpr. Numerous soft spots without evidence of water coming in anywhere. Several dealers have told me its a known problem and factory defect. However being outside the 1 year warranty, I'm told I don't have many options. The dealers won't fix it because they would need to replace the entire floor, it it's simply not worth it. So basically I have a 3 year old trailer that looks brand new except for the floor.....and it's WORTHLESS! Keystone should be ashamed! Does anyone else have the same issue? Any recommendations out there

Contact Keystone Customer Service and discuss the problem with them. Be sure to have "vital facts" available: VIN, date of purchase, any maintenance records, any repair documentation, any problems not repaired/rejected during warranty, etc.

Keystone has a current "repair program" which addresses the specific issues you have. They return defective trailers to the factory where the trailer is disassembled and a new, improved floor is installed, all under a "goodwill repair". Whether your trailer qualifies for this type of program or not is up to the qualifications that were established by the factory. The only way you're going to know if you qualify is through your dealership or by contacting the factory.

It does no good to "complain and blame" at this point. Contact the factory, keep a positive attitude when talking with them, don't disparage or try to make it seem like you're a victim. In other words, find out if they'll help by talking with them (not about them).....

[kenm500]

All fair points. Thanks for this advice. Hopefully I will have some success.

[KenJFerguson]

Wow ...what a mess!

So glad to have found this thread so fast as I begin researching how to fix the same problem on a new-to-us 2014 22RBPR acquired foolishly by us newbies who felt the softness but didn't appreciate that it was a tip of the iceberg. Now back from our 2-month, 9000 miles maiden voyage addressing this issue is our #1 priority so I'll be reading this thread many, many times. Thank you and the commenters for sharing all the lessons learned.

[Summergirl]

Update:

So our trailer has been at the Pendleton plant in Oregon for 14 weeks now.
It has just gone into the work bay to begin the floor exchange. They say about two weeks to do this now. Then it will go into the inspection/testing bay. How long it will be there is anyone’s guess.
Hoping to get it back for the snow flies too much.
Will update more when we get it back. That I am sure will be sometime Dec.

[tundrwd]

Just curious what someone does who might have this same issue - but their dealer has now gone out of business. The dealer we purchased the unit through went out of business April, 2020.

Not sure if anyone left around is a "dealer" for Keystone right now in my area
either.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by tundrwd

Just curious what someone does who might have this same issue - but their dealer has now gone out of business. The dealer we purchased the unit through went out of business April, 2020.

Not sure if anyone left around is a "dealer" for Keystone right now in my area
either.

Call Keystone Customer Service at (866) 425-4369 and ask them which dealership they want you to use that's in your local area.

[wbdvt]

I have the same issue on a 2014 Cougar 21RBS. When I took it in to the dealer to determine cause and repair options, they said it is a wet floor due to leaks thru seam molding that was not properly sealed at the factory. The dealer contacted Keystone who has said it is out of warranty and won't do anything about it. The dealer tried to escalate it in Keystone but received the same answer and now is telling me they have done all they can.

I would like to pursue this with Keystone once I get all the information from the dealer. So some questions as I see some people have had some success with Keystone on this issue:

Did you contact Keystone directly or did your dealer?
Do you have any contact info that I could contact at Keystone?
Any other helpful info?

Thanks in advance.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by wbdvt

I have the same issue on a 2014 Cougar 21RBS. When I took it in to the dealer to determine cause and repair options, they said it is a wet floor due to leaks thru seam molding that was not properly sealed at the factory. The dealer contacted Keystone who has said it is out of warranty and won't do anything about it. The dealer tried to escalate it in Keystone but received the same answer and now is telling me they have done all they can.

I would like to pursue this with Keystone once I get all the information from the dealer. So some questions as I see some people have had some success with Keystone on this issue:

Did you contact Keystone directly or did your dealer?
Do you have any contact info that I could contact at Keystone?
Any other helpful info?

Thanks in advance.

This isn't necessarily "helpful information" but is "reality based information"

The people who have been successful in being considered for floor repair after warranty all own trailers that are significantly newer than yours. Most are 2017/2018/2019 year models. Yours is a 2014 model, the 2021 models are on the showroom floor. That means yours is a 7 year old model...

My guess would be that there were some "engineering changes" (possibly manufacturing shortcuts) that were incorporated in constructing those year models and possibly the reason why they are being considered and your year is being excluded includes much more than "just year model/age" of the trailer. Keystone keeps their cards "very close to their chest" when dealing with/approving out of warranty work. My guess is that there's much more involved than just the fact that your trailer has a damaged floor and they repaired someone else's, why not mine too ???

[CampNBrew2]

Originally Posted by wbdvt

due to leaks thru seam molding that was not properly sealed at the factory.
Thanks in advance.

Which seam? The roof to sidewall transition or the roof to front cap transition? Most leaks are from these points.
Regardless, the factory warranty requires inspections and resealing almost before the trailer is sold. They are not made well to begin with so they put the responsibility on the buyer to maintain those seals. Like John mentioned, unfortunately I doubt they will do anything for you on a 2014 trailer.
Roof inspections and resealing are a frustrating part of RV ownership, especially when it seems there must be a better way of sealing these. The way they are sealed is what the market will bear costwise.

[Summergirl]

Update:

Trailer is on its way back to the dealer. The dealer has provided the dealer ship money to clean the inside and inspect the outside.
Hoping to see it this weekend and get the first real look at the floor and finishing.
Will update with the good and not so good.
Thank you Danf for posting the issue with your floor. It helped mitigate the fixing of ours.

[wbdvt]

It is the lower seam and while sealed on top, behind the strip there is no sealing so water would lead in from the screws behind the plastic cover on the strip. Per the dealer, there should have been sealant behind the strip.

Every year I do a full inspection of the roof and seals on all roof protrusions but would never have thought to pull off the trim strips to determine if sealant had been applied at the factory. This is a defect that would never be found during the warranty period.

Since it is obvious that Keystone will not step up to the plate, my only recourse is to try a repair myself. I did post, on this forum, a repair I have seen on YouTube that looks promising. However, while it has logged 130 views, no comments so it must not be a repair people on this forum have done.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by wbdvt

It is the lower seam and while sealed on top, behind the strip there is no sealing so water would lead in from the screws behind the plastic cover on the strip. Per the dealer, there should have been sealant behind the strip.

Every year I do a full inspection of the roof and seals on all roof protrusions but would never have thought to pull off the trim strips to determine if sealant had been applied at the factory. This is a defect that would never be found during the warranty period.

Since it is obvious that Keystone will not step up to the plate, my only recourse is to try a repair myself. I did post, on this forum, a repair I have seen on YouTube that looks promising. However, while it has logged 130 views, no comments so it must not be a repair people on this forum have done.

Do you know if the statement from your dealer ever made it to Keystone? Often dealers will tell customers one thing but never relate that same information to Keystone. It's a "play with words" that some dealerships use to blame the factory for something they don't want to take the time to document and repair because there's just not enough profit to make it profitable for the dealership... So, they tell the customer it's the factory's fault and tell the factory it's the customer's fault....

I'm not suggesting that YOUR dealer did this, just asking if you're aware whether the dealer reported to Keystone what he told you: "there should have been sealant behind the strip." Without that information, it's no surprise that Keystone would disapprove any repair....

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by wbdvt

It is the lower seam and while sealed on top, behind the strip there is no sealing so water would lead in from the screws behind the plastic cover on the strip. Per the dealer, there should have been sealant behind the strip.

Every year I do a full inspection of the roof and seals on all roof protrusions but would never have thought to pull off the trim strips to determine if sealant had been applied at the factory. This is a defect that would never be found during the warranty period.

Since it is obvious that Keystone will not step up to the plate, my only recourse is to try a repair myself. I did post, on this forum, a repair I have seen on YouTube that looks promising. However, while it has logged 130 views, no comments so it must not be a repair people on this forum have done.

As John has noted, what the dealer tells you vs what they tell Keystone can be 2 very different things that then determine very different results.

I had one obvious warranty issue declined by Keystone after I told the service advisor what was wrong and showed her. After the refusal I had the SM provide me the documentation sent to Keystone - nothing like the issue and it was obvious why it was declined. The SM intervened, rewrote the submission, it was approved and the young lady left.

Another point about them not wanting to mess with warranty work; just had a big job completed on my slides recovering all the darco after it began fraying on the first trip. I was neck deep in the solution and having it presented to Keystone with the SM telling me it was a long shot. Talked to the tech that was writing it up and he told me it was a big solution for some frayed darco and he might need my help. He didn't understand how I work. Things were getting iffy and I told the SM I needed him involved in the conversation with Keystone and I would work down the chain of command. We both did our thing and all the repairs (slides, key tv etc. etc.) were approved as written up. As the repairs on the slides (a big job) drug on I visited the dealership, service advisor, SM and tech every Friday. The work took a LONG time and was very involved. The SM and tech both told me that the hours that had been allotted for it (far more than what would normally be approved) were still going to be about 10 hours short. I got those approved as well BUT the point of the tale was what the tech told me toward the completion of the job; he knew it was going to be a big job, a big pita. He did not want to do it so he bid a number higher than what he thought Keystone would approve so it would be denied. He then said I never thought you could get something like that approved. I told him "you said I would need to get involved....and I did." All of that (I'm sorry) to illustrate that there are lots of things that go on with warranty work and getting it approved. From Keystone, to dealership, to service advisor, to service manager to tech....to the OWNER - they all have a bearing on how a warranty claim can/will turn out.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by wbdvt

It is the lower seam and while sealed on top, behind the strip there is no sealing so water would lead in from the screws behind the plastic cover on the strip. Per the dealer, there should have been sealant behind the strip.

Every year I do a full inspection of the roof and seals on all roof protrusions but would never have thought to pull off the trim strips to determine if sealant had been applied at the factory. This is a defect that would never be found during the warranty period.

Since it is obvious that Keystone will not step up to the plate, my only recourse is to try a repair myself. I did post, on this forum, a repair I have seen on YouTube that looks promising. However, while it has logged 130 views, no comments so it must not be a repair people on this forum have done.

Post the URL to the youtube video and I bet you get some responses here.