keystone bullet 33'

[old texas]

we have an opportunity to purchase a bullet trailer for a good price but have questions about towing a 33' trailer. Lots have been discussed with weight but not as much on length. the TV will be a:
07 silverado 1500 5300LBS
GVWR 6800lbs, GAWR FRT 3600, gawr rr 3950, 5.3 engine, z85 towing pack(trans cooler, hitch, wiring, towing mode trans) 3.73 final drive gear 265/70 tires 145" wheel base. Bilstein shocks and brakes are maintained regularly as with other fluids. Max listed towing weight is 7700 and max total GVW is 13,000.
The real weight of the trailer loaded with stuff should be about 6600. A weight distribution bar and sway bar will be used. we will mostly be towing on flat ground for a few years less than 400 miles.

[Festus2]

old texas wrote: ......... "but have questions about towing a 33' trailer".

What questions do you have about towing? In both of your posts you have given us information but haven't asked any questions. ?????

Note:
(You have this same post in the Prospective Owner's Question forum)

[old texas]

I feel the truck could pull it with out an issue. But how about pull it safely?
should I be worried about the trailer length.

it was suggested I re post here

[mhs4771]

I'm no expert, but it sure sounds like a lot of length and weight for a 1500. Remember you still need to maintain control of all that weight and length in an emergency situation.

[x96mnn]

In my opinion not enough truck. Any wind at all and your truck is going to be all over the place.

145" wheel base and you need a truck with a wheel base in the 160"s for that long a camper. Hensley hitch system might help you out with the sway and from the other spec get you by but not something I would do again. I mean most people when they ask are going to do it anyway as the weight of the camper is within what your truck can haul but I think your going to have some not so pleasant drives.

Key here is I say again, I bought a camper, my first one, was within the weight of what my rig could haul but was about 5 feet longer then what my wheelbase recommended. After the drive home my wife refused to drive with the set-up again and we parked it for the summer. I bought a larger rig the following year.

[TomHaycraft]

Originally Posted by x96mnn

In my opinion not enough truck. Any wind at all and your truck is going to be all over the place.

145" wheel base and you need a truck with a wheel base in the 160"s for that long a camper ...

First I've seen reference to wheelbase, when considering TV and trailer combinations. I'm all too familiar with the weight calculations and issues, but wheelbase of the TV? Is there a ratio or % that you are shooting for?

Tom

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by TomHaycraft

First I've seen reference to wheelbase, when considering TV and trailer combinations. I'm all too familiar with the weight calculations and issues, but wheelbase of the TV? Is there a ratio or % that you are shooting for?

Tom

Do a forum search and you'll find a large number of references to wheelbase, the importance of having a long enough wheelbase for the trailer being towed, etc.

One fairly good reference for safe towing is here:

http://www.slaga.net/RV/How%20to%20Tow-version%202.pdf

You'll find the answers for your wheelbase questions on page 18.

Essentially, a TV with a 110" wheelbase is adequate for a 20' trailer, added wheelbase length for longer trailers helps maintain stability and reduce sway.

Most "experts" recommend 4" of wheelbase for every foot of trailer length past the 20' mark.

You can do a forum search for "wheelbase" and find numerous references to wheelbase issues/problems/solutions. One forum topic is here:

http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/sho...ight=wheelbase

Do a little research, you'll find that wheelbase is just as much an issue as tongue weight, payload and hitch type.

Yes, it does get complicated, but it's not impossible to understand, the first link I listed above, although detailed, is filled with good information about towing and selecting equipment.

[x96mnn]

Tom

JRTJH explained it perfectly and the only reason why I knew about it was I had a rig that stats told me it should haul it and even had dual cam anti sway system but was all over the road. Could not understand why I had so much sway and went through a lot before I found the issue. The anti sway was doing the job but the whole rig was moving and it came down to not enough wheel base on the tow rig to counter the movement and keep stable.

[TomHaycraft]

JRTJH and x96mnn,

Each morning when I log on, always an education. I appreciate the redirection and links. In the 6 months I've been roaming this form and others, first the wheelbase statement caught my eye.

Let me ask this though. I did a search just now as suggested. Most of the conversations seemed to focus on pulling bumper pulls. I certainly understand the physics and can see why wheelbase should be a consideration. What about for the 5th wheels? Certainly, not the same physics, but is there a standard or ratio for wheelbase that should also be considered?

Again, I appreciate the education.

Tom

[JRTJH]

Tom,

Yes it does matter with fifth wheels also. This is the quote regarding that from the safe towing pamphlet I referenced:

"Because the above parameters were calculated for trailer coaches, we need to adjust for trailers that have a much-reduced sail area (low-profile) and fifth wheel trailers---because they are much more forgiving to crosswinds and bow waves. Our database reduces the required towing-vehicle wheelbase for these types of travel trailers by 10%. If these trailers are well balanced with adequate back-of-ball ratio (explained in Part 6), there should be no problem overcoming the effects of crosswinds and bow waves."

What I've found towing fifth wheels is that they are inherently much more stable on the road and can tolerate side winds much better than conventional bumper pull travel trailers. We owned an Airstream, reportedly the best towing trailer on the market. Towing across Kansas was a "dream" compared to our 20' Jayco "flatwall" trailer. But even with the Airstream, we did have to fight crosswinds, just not as much as with the Jayco. This past summer, we towed our fifth wheel across parts of Kansas, Nebraska and Iowa in similar sidewinds. The fifth wheel seemed to track better than even the Airstream. Now, it has been 35+ years since towing the Jayco or Airstream, my recollection of being white knuckled to the steering wheel of a 3/4 ton Dodge truck are still very vividly imprinted on my mind. Our F150 and fifth wheel tracked much nicer. Sure, we had to steer into the wind and going through underpasses, etc, there was no sidewind and the truck/trailer reacted to the changes in side air pressure, but nothing near as violently as the Jayco did and I think a bit nicer than the Airstream did.

Another factor to consider with fifth wheel towing is that it's always done with a truck where the trailer pivot point is over the rear axle (as opposed to behind the rear bumper) which makes the rig inherently more stable to begin with. Trucks also have a longer wheelbase than most of today's SUV's and sedans, making the ratio of trailer length to wheelbase less "significant" than with bumper pulls which are often towed with SUV's having a shorter wheelbase.

I hope this didn't confuse you more, but the bottom line is:

Yes, wheelbase to trailer length is important in fifth wheel towing, but not as important as in bumper pull towing. This is due, in part to the truck's longer wheelbase and the inhernet stability of the fifth wheel hitch being positioned over the rear axle.

[TomHaycraft]

JRTJH,

Thanks for sharing the experiences. Precisely the reason I gave up the bed of the truck and easy ability to carry my road and mountain bikes (or kayaks, etc) and went with the 5th wheel. My experiences with bumper pulls were not confidence inspiring. Saying that, I will also admit that few of the experiences conform to the standards presented in the manual you quoted from.

In college, I had to drive a van pulling a 35+ foot trailer for a blood bank. Van was grossly inadequate (state hospital, no idea who put those specifications out to bid). My preference for assignments was always driving the converted Blue Bird bus turned blood mobile!

Among others, but more recently, with the C1500 I'm driving now, I rented a Springdale 232RBL. I was told "no need for a WD hitch or sway control, or brake controller as my truck already had the 7-pin wiring." And they knew I was headed to the Ozarks in Missouri! I learned a thing or two about brake fade on AR 7. My eyeballs bounced around in my head on a few roads due to the wind, poor road conditions and excessive tail-wagging-the-dog. I really should have taken Woody's RV Rentals in Georgetown, TX to court over that but was told, hey, nothing happened, I didn't have a case. That was the start of my learning curve to where I am today!

Measuring the wheelbase of my truck yesterday, check that one off my list. For the needs of my wife and I and ability of the truck, could not have selected a more perfect combination of truck and trailer.

Thanks again.

Tom

[JRTJH]

Tom,

I also tow a fifth wheel with a half ton truck. I have had no problems and feel secure that the rig is well matched and definitely not overloaded. The one thing I'd urge you to do when it comes time to get new tires is go with LT tires (E rated) rather than continue with the P series tires that are most likely on your truck. P series tires have a lot of sidewall flex and when loaded with the trailer, will get "squishy" on the back end. If all you've ever towed feels that way, you really have nothing to compare, but LT tires are much less flexible and eliminate most of that "soft squishy" feel in your suspension.

You'll probalby notice about 1MPG loss in fuel mileage with the LT tires, but the firmer stance when towing more than makes up for it in my opinion.

As for taking along your kayaks, and/or bikes, have you thought about a small utility trailer behind the fifth wheel? With the addition of a receiver hitch you may find that you can still have the best of most things.....

[TomHaycraft]

JRTJH,

Also, missed your reference to the hitch on the 5'er to pull a utility trailer for the toys. Yes, I've looked at the Yakima RACKandROLL trailer (http://yakima.com/shop/trailers/trai...ck-and-roll-78). It would be the way to go for me.

Trouble I have, is that the 247FWRLLS is light at the king-pin for the trailer's weight. With a measured pin weight that is only 16% of the trailer's current weight, I'm hesitate to hang a receiver hitch on the rear of the trailer and further lighten the pin.

The kayaks will have to be the inflatable type and the bikes will have to go on a Yakima (I'm partial to them!) rack over the cab of my truck.

By the way, I count myself as very fortunate to have such issues!!

Tom