Looking to buy a 2002 Keystone Cougar 278 EFS

[New2Camping]

We are looking at the camper listed above and wondering if they have a good record of reliability without many complaints. I am also wondering if this 5th wheel could be pulled with my 2016 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 1/2 ton LT Z71 4 x 4 double cab pickup.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by New2Camping

We are looking at the camper listed above and wondering if they have a good record of reliability without many complaints. I am also wondering if this 5th wheel could be pulled with my 2016 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 1/2 ton LT Z71 4 x 4 double cab pickup.

I think your gonna be overweight for that truck.. look in the drivers door jam and there should be a payload sticker ..either a yellow one or a white one with the maximum cargo carrying capacity of the truck ..take a picture and you can post it..someone will walk you through it..I think your hitch weight will be north of 1600 lbs

[chuckster57]

When looking at ANY used trailer, especially one as old as that, it’s more about how it was taken care of than anything else. Any trailer can have issues, and again after 20 years it doesn’t matter if a particular line/model was good but rather the specific unit your looking at.

I would look it over real close top to bottom. If your buying from a private party, I would ask the seller to SHOW you everything works.

[Gegrad]

As Chuck said, at that age it is about the individual unit, not the whole line. Another way to think about it is: That trailer is 19 years old. If it still looks halfway decent and isn't falling apart from water damage at that age, it was probably well taken care of and was a well built one. RVs don't make it to 19 years old and still show in decent shape without it generally being a good unit. The bad ones and/or ones that were neglected from that line are long gone by now. It's a "survivor" so to speak.

[jfk69]

I agree with all that has been said. At this point in time, it will be difficult to find other identical units, most will be long gone. Look at, and judge, the individual unit. A good visual inspection, including the roof, sides, and underneath can give a lot of clues on how it’s been maintained. We sold our ‘06 Jayco Jayflight 30.5RLS this spring. We owned it for two years, having bought it from my wife’s former boss. He was the original owner, buying it new as a leftover in ‘07 and did an impeccable job having it maintained and we followed suit. No bottom rust, roof was immaculate, it was simply a well maintained, well built unit with a lot of life left in it. Everything worked on the trailer, and we sold it for a premium to the first buyers that viewed it.

An older trailer can be a great value, if you do your due diligence in evaluating it. Hell, I’ve wrenched on our new to us 344MKS far more than I did that rig and we’ve only owned it 4 months. Not a complaint, our Cougar was also very well maintained, but it sat on a permanent site for two years so some systems didn’t get exercised like they needed. Good luck with the purchase and DO NOT be afraid to walk on the deal if you feel uncomfortable.

As far as towable with your half ton, all I’ll say is I towed the Jayco for two years with a half ton. It “handled” the trailer. However the only time we towed it any distance with the F350, even the DW said it was “more better”. Jasin1 told you what to look for on the truck and a lot of folks here can help with that. With that said, I always have my doubts that ANY fiver is 1/2 ton towable if all aspects of towing are fully evaluated.

[sourdough]

I agree. The days of worrying about the model, line, manufacturer etc. are long gone on that trailer. It is now 100% the unit and what it has been through in its life; nothing to do with who made it or the model/brand. The other thing; if you are "new to RV camping" you NEED to ask some questions of knowledgeable RV folks about pitfalls you will more than likely find. You need to know what to look for or you will be like so many others trying to dig themselves out of a hole with a "great bargain" RV.

[wiredgeorge]

I own a 2002 Cougar 278EFS. It is a fine trailer with few of the issues some have complained about with new trailers. I had to replace the tub surround, got rid of the miserable Aqua Magic toilet, put a real mattress in, put in vinyl flooring and removed the couch and dinette and replaced with LazyBoy love seat recliner and Ikea table/chairs. Pulled out the carpet in the main cabin and replaced with vinyl floor tiles. The roof will be an issue as the material will likely show a lot of black meaning the pigment is shot and although we didn't have any leaks, I ripped the roof on a tree limb and my insurance bought me an RV-Armor roof. I put in very dark tint on the windows and added a 14K BTU portable A/C which exhausts out a window and new Dometic Breeze 15K btu on the roof to replace the original 13.5. I put an aritculating TV mount so our 32" tv can be turned towards our loveseat where we can see it easily. All basic systems are original and working great. If you buy an old camper be prepared to put some work but I am convinced an older trailer is made better and we don't have to deal with the tech issues induced by the modern gee-gaw systems which seem to infest more new trailers these days.

[markdol1]

NO and NO A 1500 is not strong enough and can be outright dangerous to tow with .I will never buy another keystone product again, I have been repairing it since i bought it 7 years ago .Trade in value is abysmal.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by markdol1

NO and NO A 1500 is not strong enough and can be outright dangerous to tow with .I will never buy another keystone product again, I have been repairing it since i bought it 7 years ago .Trade in value is abysmal.

"Trade in" value for ANY RV is terrible - all brands. It's just the nature of the beast and you have to deal with it.

[JDDilly]

Same with fixing things. There is always something to fix from day one. Doesn't matter what brand or manufacture.

[New2Camping]

Originally Posted by jasin1

I think your gonna be overweight for that truck.. look in the drivers door jam and there should be a payload sticker ..either a yellow one or a white one with the maximum cargo carrying capacity of the truck ..take a picture and you can post it..someone will walk you through it..I think your hitch weight will be north of 1600 lbs

The sticker in my door says the combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed 1719 Lb.

[jfk69]

Originally Posted by New2Camping

The sticker in my door says the combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed 1719 Lb.

Not enough truck for that rig.

[New2Camping]

Here is a copy of the sticker in the camper regarding weights.

[markcee]

Originally Posted by New2Camping

The sticker in my door says the combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed 1719 Lb.

A good rule of thumb when calculating tongue or pin weight is 13% of GVWR for a travel trailer (tongue weight) and 22% of GVWR for a 5th wheel (pin weight). You should not use the manufacturer's brochure pin/tongue weight ratings for your calculations as they are based on an empty trailer - which you won't be pulling.

The specs you provided indicate the 5vers GVWR at 8160 pounds.

8160*.22 = 1795 pounds - you are already over the payload of your 1/2 ton before you, any passengers, the 5th wheel hitch and any other gear was placed in the bed or cab of the truck.

[jfk69]

Using max GVWR of 8160 on the trailer, 23% of that is around 1800 pounds. You would be over max payload on your truck the minute you dropped the pin on it, and that’s without adding the weight of the hitch and passengers/gear in the truck. It’s not enough truck.

[flybouy]

New2Camping You have been given good information regarding your 1/2 not being up to the task. Please take the advise as intended, that is to educate (you stated you are new to this) and make you aware of what numbers are relevant. Most everyone that points this does so from first hand experience, i.e. we've all made that mistake in the past and just want to do what we can to prevent someone else from making the same mistake. It's like you saying "I'm going to XYZ for dinner" and 10 people pipe up and say "Don't do it! We ate there and got food poisoning!"

Good luck in your search for a camper and let us know how it works out.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by New2Camping

Here is a copy of the sticker in the camper regarding weights.

Listen to the folks; your 1/2 ton will get quickly overwhelmed with trying to tow the 5th wheel (or any 5th wheel for that matter). Note I have a 1 ton F350 with 4K payload (and a diesel) and it tows the trailer easily. I have a 2006 F350 and bought it for $7K and have put a bit of money into it to make it reliable and mostly only use the truck for towing my camper. There are ways to make anything work out. I probably didn't need a 4x4 or diesel, btw. Camper is relatively light and a gas motor would have been fine.