Towing Advice - Why?

**sourdough** · 11-28-2020, 05:37 PM

On the forum we have many new members coming on. Many have been sold a bag of goods pertaining to weights by the truck dealership or the RV dealership. They believe that. Many times any advice countering that is met with resistance or hostility. Many times the ones upset have no idea about weights and the harsh truth does not sit well....it IS unwelcome news. Some come to this forum for truth/information, validation or acceptance. Some want to, and do, learn. Some want to believe what is easy if the numbers aren't what they want. It's unfortunate, BUT, today I witnessed WHY we try to be "weight police".

We have sat beside a Keystone Outback since 11/8. They are/were from NY. We waved, nodded, tried to speak etc. but were always ignored. Being from TX figured we were off limits for them so didn't pursue. Today they left for places "beyond" I guess. The Outback had 1 slide, about 25-26' long. Their vehicle was a GMC Acadia.....ACADIA. Looked up the specs; max towing capacity is 4000 lbs. with a wdh - trailer would be in the 6k + range I figure.

Looking at the vehicle as he tried to hook up I would have swore he had a 1 1/4" receiver and a 2" ball. I did not try to inject myself but just watched. Figure it was a 2" receiver. He could not put the ball under the hitch; did not know to set the parking brake to hold the ball...just kept putting it in park and then it would roll. Got upset about the 3rd shot and literally grabbed the tongue of the trailer to "pull" it to the ball...won't work. Finally lowered the trailer tongue then kept backing until the ball hit the hitch and fell on. That was it! NO weight distribution hitch! Just a couple of chains. The Acadia dropped several inches and the driver looked like he was looking up at the stars.

I know some folks don't like the "weight police" or other ugly words. I HATED seeing that rig pull out...with a little child with them. They don't know....and maybe they're trying to get back to NY? To me it's just not right and unsafe for them. If they had shown any kind of acceptance of us I would have been trying to help him but that wasn't the way it went.

Just a note to those that don't understand or want to make bad comments about those that worry about folks like that....and they are on the highway today....with you. Just an observation on this "day 2 after Thanksgiving".

**chuckster57** · 11-28-2020, 06:59 PM

Some times you just have to stand back and hope for the best. I have seen all kinds of combinations going down the road and wonder what they were thinking...or not. Just today I’m heading north on 99 coming out of Turlock after shopping at my favorite tool place. My attention was drawn to a 1/2 ton pickup pulling a TT about 25 feet long AND a boat. I’m pretty sure the TT wasn’t a fiver so I just shook my head and was happy I was on the opposite side.

QCMan · 11-28-2020, 07:34 PM

Glad I am not on the road with them! After leaving NY, we lived in a campground in Tabor City NC called Daddy Joe's. A wonderful experience and we were sad to leave when the house was finished. While there, we saw everything from Suzuki Samurias to minivans pulling trailers I would never think they were capable of. Most just considered it ok because they were only going 10/20/30 miles. Scared the hell out of me but you can't fix stupid, not even with duct tape.
We also had a little culture shock going on. In NY, looking people you do not know in the eye is considered a violation of their space. From what I have seen, the South is just the opposite and looking each other in the eye is expected and welcomed. The folks from "up North" also tend to be very private even when in a public area such as a campground. It has to do with trying to maintain your private space in a very crowded area. It tends to make them appear rude to those that are looking at them when they act as they do. I am the same person I was up there but have embraced the customs of the south and now I am visually undistinguishable from the tenth generation folks around me until I open my mouth.
That MAY explain the standoffish behavior you encountered but not the stupidity you encountered. I hope this helps a little.

**sourdough** · 11-28-2020, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QCMan

Glad I am not on the road with them! After leaving NY, we lived in a campground in Tabor City NC called Daddy Joe's. A wonderful experience and we were sad to leave when the house was finished. While there, we saw everything from Suzuki Samurias to minivans pulling trailers I would never think they were capable of. Most just considered it ok because they were only going 10/20/30 miles. Scared the hell out of me but you can't fix stupid, not even with duct tape.
We also had a little culture shock going on. In NY, looking people you do not know in the eye is considered a violation of their space. From what I have seen, the South is just the opposite and looking each other in the eye is expected and welcomed. The folks from "up North" also tend to be very private even when in a public area such as a campground. It has to do with trying to maintain your private space in a very crowded area. It tends to make them appear rude to those that are looking at them when they act as they do. I am the same person I was up there but have embraced the customs of the south and now I am visually undistinguishable from the tenth generation folks around me until I open my mouth.
That MAY explain the standoffish behavior you encountered but not the stupidity you encountered. I hope this helps a little.

I appreciate your insight. I do recall when my daughter first moved to the DFW metroplex and we came down she told me "don't look them in the eye" it was considered confrontational. I did not understand that now or then, but we consider everyone a friend until proven otherwise. On the other hand, I am not so much a "private" person but more a "I don't like crowds, or gabby folks...DW calls me a hermit". After spending decades in public life I just sort of like nice, quiet and nice folks.

Bill-2020 · 11-28-2020, 08:20 PM

On the 7 hour drive home today from middle GA to Central Florida/Space Coast I saw several mid-sized SUVs and Crossovers towing small campers, and as you said Danny, the driver looking up to the sky. Several of the campers were nearly the size of my small passport. One passed me on a mission to get somewhere quickly. I heard nothing but his engine winding out to maintain speed. Another had strapped a scooter to the rear of his TT bumper. At least he wasn't trying to win the Indy 500... problem was his TT just wagged back and fourth keeping him below 65... I gave myself lots of room as I passed him. Figured it was safer for him to be behind me.

gearhead · 11-28-2020, 08:27 PM

Danny I saw a very similar rig this last June. We were on the way to Knoxville Iowa and passing through Kansas City, I think. Came upon a massive traffic jam. Cops, wreckers and ambulance. A GMC Acadia pulling a fair sized travel trailer. GMC was pointed against traffic on its side and had all the signs of loss of control. Classic tail wagging the dog.
They really are everywhere. When I worked contract in south Texas oilfield a coworker pulled a 3 axle 5th wheel down there from Houston with a Toyota Tundra. He was being paid as a Mechanical Inspector!

bobbecky · 11-28-2020, 08:29 PM

Our experience full timing has been, most RV'ers are friendly and if asked are willing to help if there is a need. We maintain our distance unless approached and rarely find any that are not friendly, but there is always one every now and then that is constantly in a bad mood, but that is just human nature.

aricker243 · 11-29-2020, 06:03 AM

Well, you all better get used to it. Smaller TVs and ultralites RV are ALL the rage with all age groups. I traveled 15K miles this year, 80% of campsites are these types of TV/RVs.
I seen Tv's as small as a chevy equinox, jeep, honda something, ford explorer, toyota something.... you name it I seen it.

You'd expect to see the roads and highways littered with broken down, in-capable TVs. I didn't see any..... in fact most of these types of setups were actually surprisingly "level"..... how the weights panned out, I really don't care.

Not sure how you are going to enjoy your time at any campgrounds worrying about everyone else's situation? Me personally, I don't really give a **** what other people are doing.

Badbart56 · 11-29-2020, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aricker243

Well, you all better get used to it. Smaller TVs and ultralites RV are ALL the rage with all age groups. I traveled 15K miles this year, 80% of campsites are these types of TV/RVs.
I seen Tv's as small as a chevy equinox, jeep, honda something, ford explorer, toyota something.... you name it I seen it.

You'd expect to see the roads and highways littered with broken down, in-capable TVs. I didn't see any..... in fact most of these types of setups were actually surprisingly "level"..... how the weights panned out, I really don't care.

Not sure how you are going to enjoy your time at any campgrounds worrying about everyone else's situation? Me personally, I don't really give a **** what other people are doing.

Well I drive literally 10 times the amount you do and I DO see them. Not just the broken down ones, but the ones that get blown over into the rumble strips when my rig passes them at 70 mph while they're struggling to do 45 mph up a 4% grade pulling a 28 foot travel trailer with a grossly underpowered SUV. The countless ones with the blown tires trying to see if they even have a jack at 10:00 at night, in the dark with no flashlight because they didn't have a clue as to what towing entails. You might give a **** if they put you or your family at risk. Oh, but wait....they do!

travelin texans · 11-29-2020, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aricker243

Well, you all better get used to it. Smaller TVs and ultralites RV are ALL the rage with all age groups. I traveled 15K miles this year, 80% of campsites are these types of TV/RVs.
I seen Tv's as small as a chevy equinox, jeep, honda something, ford explorer, toyota something.... you name it I seen it.

You'd expect to see the roads and highways littered with broken down, in-capable TVs. I didn't see any..... in fact most of these types of setups were actually surprisingly "level"..... how the weights panned out, I really don't care.

Not sure how you are going to enjoy your time at any campgrounds worrying about everyone else's situation? Me personally, I don't really give a **** what other people are doing.

I intend to enjoy my time at the campground, but I do give a **** how/with what others are towing! If we're in the same campground odds are 50/50 they'll be headed the same direction as we do when we leave & that greatly increases my give a **** being on the road with them.

ewbldavis · 11-29-2020, 08:38 AM

Wow - definitely an extreme example of ignorance. We have a 2019 Acadia, and while it would definitely tow our golf cart on a trailer or a small outboard boat, I'd never use it to tow anything more than a pop-up. Previous generation (1st Gen) Acadia was rated for 5200#, but unibody and front-wheel drive I don't believe it.

We towed our 28ft. no-slides travel trailer with a 6-cyl., long wheel-base Trailblazer - which was rated for 6000# and a good match. Had we owned the short wheel-base version I would not have towed that long of TT. Certainly not anything larger, even if we had V8.

The towing advice on this forum is decent - a little too conservative IMO, but no one ever complained because they had too much truck, so better to be on conservative side anyway. We see all kinds on holiday weekends where we season camp, and I just shake my head. I don't let it ruin my weekend, but I keep my distance if I see a questionable setup on the road.

travelin texans · 11-29-2020, 09:12 AM

Just mentioned the biggest problem with finding potential tvs.
The 1st weights everyone mentions is "it's rated to tow XXXXlbs & the dry rv weight is XXXXlbs", neither of those weights mean a thing when looking at RVs. Also "I'm only going XX miles to the campground" or "I'll never load it completely & never have full water tanks", both will most likely happen the 1st month.

ehidle · 12-03-2020, 05:33 AM

Car salesmen will tell you anything to get you to buy a car.

RV salesmen will tell you anything to get you to buy an RV.

They are not the ones who are sued/cited when someone gets into an accident.

Caveat Emptor.

At the same time, we were all noobs once. Every interaction we more experienced tow drivers have with a noob is an opportunity to gently and constructively educate and inform.

rhagfo · 12-03-2020, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travelin texans

Just mentioned the biggest problem with finding potential tvs.
The 1st weights everyone mentions is "it's rated to tow XXXXlbs & the dry rv weight is XXXXlbs", neither of those weights mean a thing when looking at RVs. Also "I'm only going XX miles to the campground" or "I'll never load it completely & never have full water tanks", both will most likely happen the 1st month.

This hits the nail on the head!!!
There is one other thing is the Payload sticker on TV, as many think that is how much pin weight it can take, and don't realize this is everything added to the TV.
We used 1,400#+/- of our 5,411# sticker payload with DW and I, in bed tool box, and hitch with adapter frame. I believe most people that scale their TV are a bit surprised at their unhitched TV weight.

**sourdough** · 12-03-2020, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aricker243

Well, you all better get used to it. Smaller TVs and ultralites RV are ALL the rage with all age groups. I traveled 15K miles this year, 80% of campsites are these types of TV/RVs.
I seen Tv's as small as a chevy equinox, jeep, honda something, ford explorer, toyota something.... you name it I seen it.

You'd expect to see the roads and highways littered with broken down, in-capable TVs. I didn't see any..... in fact most of these types of setups were actually surprisingly "level"..... how the weights panned out, I really don't care.

Not sure how you are going to enjoy your time at any campgrounds worrying about everyone else's situation? Me personally, I don't really give a **** what other people are doing.

A couple of things;

I don't "worry" about other folks' situations other than for them and/or if I am going to encounter them on the highway. The folks I mentioned had a small boy that they obviously, very much doted on. Their welfare is what I worry about when it comes from obviously not having a clue about weights. And you are right, somewhat, about more units being sold and coming to campgrounds, but....

I have no idea where you go to campgrounds and find 80% of the rigs like you describe. I'm in them all the time (campgrounds - will be going to probably 3 today) and if I see 1% pulling a larger RV with an SUV I'm probably overstating it. I have been in some campgrounds sort of like you mention (nothing like 80%). In this campground, from Prevosts, to upper end 5th wheels, to some smaller units (73 sites) there are no small SUVs pulling anything.

Traveler2017 · 12-03-2020, 01:37 PM

I read the forums regularly and more often with the emails, always check what is going on.
Not to give any of you swelled heads but the majority of site members and senior members have a wealth of knowledge that needs to be passed on to those that are New to the RV lifestyle. I personally have taken a wealth of knowledge from the website and thank you all for posting what you have learnt over your time living the RV lifestyle.

Maybe time to start a thread on some of the basics that new RVers need to know. Maybe I have missed it but think that between all of us we come come up with something to help out. Or perhaps a Blog, I know it might be hard but it could be in Keystone's best interest to help sponsor something like this.

RWRiley · 12-03-2020, 02:41 PM

There are so many posts here that I would like to quote but it would be way to many. But I will say I have to agree with the fact that "Newbees" really just look at the Tow Ratings of the RV and Dry weight of the TT. AND - 32 years ago - I was one of those guys. I had no idea there was any more to it than that. I would love it if there was some kind of certification and/or review that new buyers had to go thru before hooking up a TT. But I'm sure any such idea would get shot down by some special interest group.

One more thing - at the risk of getting my hand slapped. To the guy that said "you better get used to it"...I hope nobody ever comes to you for advice on towing, because I think you don't understand the fundamentals either.

HDroadglide · 12-03-2020, 07:03 PM

Danny I understand where you are coming from. I to am a Texan born and raised in the heart of Texas, but have traveled the world with my Job but now Retired. I share my good and bad thing that have happened to me so that others want have any bad experience's. But not every camp is not as friendly as TEXANS.

SR71 Jet Mech · 12-03-2020, 11:32 PM

So I myself really enjoy this forum and read pretty much every post in the news letters. Got on here and was proud to fill out my signature with my big bad 3/4 ton diesel “puller”......
Now I was an ASE certified auto tech, jet engine Mechanic in the Air Force, am a maintenance Technician now and have been for the last 23 years. After I started reading these towing threads I thought there’s no way I’m one of “those” people...
Towing way overloaded. I went out and looked at the “sticker” and payload is 2021 lbs.
I’m really amazed none of you never jumped ME as my fiver has a dry pin weight of 2100. Other than maybe once or twice I’ve stayed out of “those” threads as even with all my previous experience and towing over the years, I too thought I was in good shape.
I too want to thank each and everyone of you as people really have no clue. If it’s got a hitch, it can tow...
I’ve been a member here for maybe 3 years??? And figured this or MY towing problem within a couple of months of being on here. Cringing every time we take off and being extra careful, knowing there was no way to upgrade to the proper TV as finances didn’t permit.
They do now and I will be ordering a 2021 HO Aisin, 4:10 geared DRW of RAM Cummins behemoth in January. When it arrives in March you all will know.

Once again thanks!!
Scott

ehidle · 12-04-2020, 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SR71 Jet Mech

They do now and I will be ordering a 2021 HO Aisin, 4:10 geared DRW of RAM Cummins behemoth in January. When it arrives in March you all will know.

Once again thanks!!
Scott

This is my next step as well. Right now I am limited in what I can load up and take with me because of the GAWRR of my truck. I want to do some boondocking but I can't tow my rig with a full water tank because I end up over my rear axle limit - let alone with a bed full of extra propane and water tanks. I am looking at a 2020 3500HO with an 8 foot bed. I just have to convince myself that it's okay to spend twice as much on a truck as I did on my trailer lol.

Thanks for serving!
Eric

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