Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone Fleet | Keystone RV Models > Toy Haulers
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 01-27-2020, 06:39 PM   #1
DynoGuy
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Statesville
Posts: 2
Starting to think my new Raptor is a Lemon.

I just bought a 2019 Raptor 415 this last October to full time in since I'm working out in Las Vegas.
The FW tank was cracked from the factory which I didn't realize until the trip home to North Carolina for Xmas which also screwed up the level sensor (it goes from empty to full with only 18 gallons which I verified). CW just got the tank in on Friday but can't get me in before I leave to go to Johnson Valley on Thursday for King of the Hammers so I'm going to bring along a 38gal auxiliary tank I have. Somewhere between Vegas, home and back the Furrion "bat wing " HD TV antenna came off along with a fender flair on the sofa slideout (I had checked all the outside screws when I was home). Then just last week the Keytv quit (no blue light) which never worked with my DishTV anyways (I ran a separate cable from the living room to the outside to fix the issue). Also I just started noticing that the 1/2 bath toilet doesn't hold water in the bowl for more than 30mins. And another thing that's bugging me is the whole "King mattress" is a joke. I went back to a queen sized one, since the base for the bed is sized for a queen not a king. What's the use if the mattress is hanging over the edge and not supported anyways. I guess that's what I get for buying new.
DynoGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2020, 08:36 PM   #2
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,841
Trust that your "complaints" have been documented tens (or hundreds) of times on the forum. Fortunately, for almost 100% of the problems, there has been a 100% fix, so consider what you're facing as "growing pains". If you let it get to you, you'll either spend the entire time you're making payments with a "miserable attitude" or you'll "tow yourself into insanity".... Either way, the best alternative is to take a deep breath, know that your problems aren't unique to "only your Raptor" and that many, MANY others have "towed down that same pothole filled road" and they all survived, you will too.

Honestly, things happen, things get fixed and more things happen. Hopefully all of your "things" will happen during the warranty. If you think of the apartment you moved out of to move into your Raptor, imagine it being towed down the road at 70MPH. Do you really think it will (or would) survive the first 10 miles ???? Every time you tow, you subject your RV to an earthquake and a tornado and if it's raining, throw in a hurricane for good measure....

Give your dealership a chance to get things fixed and go break 'em again.... Any other mindset will drive you crazy.
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2020, 09:30 PM   #3
Bob R
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Pahrump
Posts: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by DynoGuy View Post
And another thing that's bugging me is the whole "King mattress" is a joke. I went back to a queen sized one, since the base for the bed is sized for a queen not a king. What's the use if the mattress is hanging over the edge and not supported anyways. I guess that's what I get for buying new.
That is bugging me also, why couldn't they cut down the "night stand" on the one side and center the mattress which would give the other side a small night stand also, but I guess the designers don't really use the product.

bob
__________________
2019 Raptor 356 with iFlex Smartryde Suspension
2022 F350 CC DRW 409CI Diesel
Bob R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2020, 01:20 PM   #4
LewisB
Senior Member
 
LewisB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Tucson
Posts: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by DynoGuy View Post
And another thing that's bugging me is the whole "King mattress" is a joke. I went back to a queen sized one, since the base for the bed is sized for a queen not a king. What's the use if the mattress is hanging over the edge and not supported anyways. I guess that's what I get for buying new.
Our 2018 raptor 353TS was the same way. Not uncommon. Easy fix. Measure the amount of unsupported overhang and then cut half-inch plywood twice that width, glue and screw down to existing bed top. Make sure the lift up portion will still allow access to the storage area. The whole fix takes about as long as it does to send an email.
LewisB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2020, 07:54 AM   #5
Icantdrive55
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Houston
Posts: 17
If it makes you feel any better, I'm at over $14k in repairs on a brand-new Fuzion that hasn't been able to even leave the dealership once since purchased.

Thankfully, it seems to be solid now, after getting the right people at Keystone involved (thank you Sherry!!!) and hopefully finally getting out of here in the next few weeks
Icantdrive55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2020, 08:25 AM   #6
John57
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Grand Blanc
Posts: 17
Well, we are in a new 427 with issues galore. Currently, we're in a park in Florida and talking with other Keystone owners - the problems are common. I have listed no less than 14 warranty issues already, two have been critical - the fridge and the furnace.
Frankly, I am disgusted with the quality of the products that come out of their factories. The other 12 issues, save for what I believe is a cable splitter part gone bad, are/were all human related carelessness inside the factory. My rear bathroom door has a quarter inch gap in the middle of it - someone didnt square it up during installation - you can actually see someone sitting on the toilet! Something is wrong with the RG-6 cable on one of the tvs - likely a staple hammered through it. There are way too many to list here - but if another country enters this market - it would improve the quality immensely, IMO. Look what Japan did to our auto industry.
But the worst thing is the instructions you get with them. Worthless. The walk through omitted several things as well. I have talked with Keystone techs on the phone and they were also absolutely wrong on one issue (my tank flush fills both black tanks - the 427 does not have 2 tank fill points as I was told).
Lastly, I asked for a diagram to be sent to me during my first 3 calls to Keystone on 3 different issues. Each time I was told there were no diagrams. On my 4th call - the gal said "I dont know, let me look at the diagram".
Its no wonder there are so many pissed off buyers of RVs. Most companies apparently put out crap from their factories with no inspections and no manuals to try and diagnose something yourself. Usually, on first trips are where you find these things out and you have to pay a mobile repairman for WARRANTY work as I did.
Now, my wife and i are considering getting rid of ours after one trip because of all of these issues. Although you dont meet people during hotel stays, the frustration levels have been overwhelming several times. Retirement isnt supposed to be this way.
John57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2020, 09:37 AM   #7
Weekender 1
Gone Traveling
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Palmyra
Posts: 62
"Trust that your "complaints" have been documented tens (or hundreds) of times on the forum. Fortunately, for almost 100% of the problems, there has been a 100% fix, so consider what you're facing as "growing pains".



Do you work for Keystone?
Growing pains knowing you just unloaded some serious cash and from day 1, and you have problems! Kinda suck it up buttercup!





"Either way, the best alternative is to take a deep breath, know that your problems aren't unique to "only your Raptor" and that many, MANY others have "towed down that same pothole filled road" and they all survived, you will too.
Honestly, things happen, things get fixed and more things happen. Hopefully all of your "things" will happen during the warranty. If you think of the apartment you moved out of to move into your Raptor, imagine it being towed down the road at 70MPH. Do you really think it will (or would) survive the first 10 miles ???? Every time you tow, you subject your RV to an earthquake and a tornado and if it's raining, throw in a hurricane for good measure...."


Ah!! So your trying to tell us they don't build units for such.
I don't know about anyone else, but if you build something to be towed, you'd test for it to make sure it can handle it. Suck it up buttercup comes to mind again.


"Give your dealership a chance to get things fixed and go break 'em again...."


First you gotta hope Keystone will accept the problems.
Second there someone competent enough to fix it and the dealer isn't backed up so much , its a cob job and out. Which is more than likely.
And then once its cobbed up since its built like crap it'll break again after the warranty is up and. Suck it up buttercup.



And if don't work for Keystone, you should!
Weekender 1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2020, 04:14 PM   #8
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weekender 1 View Post
"Trust that your "complaints" have been documented tens (or hundreds) of times on the forum. Fortunately, for almost 100% of the problems, there has been a 100% fix, so consider what you're facing as "growing pains".



Do you work for Keystone?
Growing pains knowing you just unloaded some serious cash and from day 1, and you have problems! Kinda suck it up buttercup!





"Either way, the best alternative is to take a deep breath, know that your problems aren't unique to "only your Raptor" and that many, MANY others have "towed down that same pothole filled road" and they all survived, you will too.
Honestly, things happen, things get fixed and more things happen. Hopefully all of your "things" will happen during the warranty. If you think of the apartment you moved out of to move into your Raptor, imagine it being towed down the road at 70MPH. Do you really think it will (or would) survive the first 10 miles ???? Every time you tow, you subject your RV to an earthquake and a tornado and if it's raining, throw in a hurricane for good measure...."


Ah!! So your trying to tell us they don't build units for such.
I don't know about anyone else, but if you build something to be towed, you'd test for it to make sure it can handle it. Suck it up buttercup comes to mind again.


"Give your dealership a chance to get things fixed and go break 'em again...."


First you gotta hope Keystone will accept the problems.
Second there someone competent enough to fix it and the dealer isn't backed up so much , its a cob job and out. Which is more than likely.
And then once its cobbed up since its built like crap it'll break again after the warranty is up and. Suck it up buttercup.



And if don't work for Keystone, you should!
You've GOT TO BE KIDDING ME !!!! Either that, or you're extremely good at making ASSumptions….

No, I do NOT work for Keystone, never have, never will. I also don't get paid (this is strictly VOLUNTARY) by this forum to put up with insults from someone with a "busted RV" and a axe to grind.

That said, I do have a realistic view of just what an RV is (not what I'd wish it was) and let that "realism" polish my outlook on RVing. I find that most who are able to shrug their shoulders, say, "OK, now what?" and move on are much happier with their RV, using it and even enjoying it. Those that do the "gut-rench", look for anything to justify an argument with the dealership and Keystone, typically only own 1 travel trailer, or if they do buy a second, it's usually not a Keystone product and they move their "complaints" to a different forum...…

Anyway, now you know the answer: Nope, I don't. Maybe if you're looking for a challenge, you could apply at Keystone and "make the changes you think would fix all their issues" ????

If this post "comes across as "accusatory or ill tempered" then maybe think about what you suggested: That I'm a "shill for Keystone"... That's not only insulting, it's derogatory and, being accused of such is not something I find complimentary.
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2020, 06:59 PM   #9
sourdough
Site Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weekender 1 View Post
"Trust that your "complaints" have been documented tens (or hundreds) of times on the forum. Fortunately, for almost 100% of the problems, there has been a 100% fix, so consider what you're facing as "growing pains".



Do you work for Keystone?
Growing pains knowing you just unloaded some serious cash and from day 1, and you have problems! Kinda suck it up buttercup!





"Either way, the best alternative is to take a deep breath, know that your problems aren't unique to "only your Raptor" and that many, MANY others have "towed down that same pothole filled road" and they all survived, you will too.
Honestly, things happen, things get fixed and more things happen. Hopefully all of your "things" will happen during the warranty. If you think of the apartment you moved out of to move into your Raptor, imagine it being towed down the road at 70MPH. Do you really think it will (or would) survive the first 10 miles ???? Every time you tow, you subject your RV to an earthquake and a tornado and if it's raining, throw in a hurricane for good measure...."


Ah!! So your trying to tell us they don't build units for such.
I don't know about anyone else, but if you build something to be towed, you'd test for it to make sure it can handle it. Suck it up buttercup comes to mind again.


"Give your dealership a chance to get things fixed and go break 'em again...."


First you gotta hope Keystone will accept the problems.
Second there someone competent enough to fix it and the dealer isn't backed up so much , its a cob job and out. Which is more than likely.
And then once its cobbed up since its built like crap it'll break again after the warranty is up and. Suck it up buttercup.



And if don't work for Keystone, you should!

You know, I've been on the road having a great time and come back to the forum this evening.....and now you're after another member! If a person as an owner of an rv can't/won't develop a mindset of "dealing with it" then you probably need to buy a pony . You also need to understand the animal (rv ownership), AND, learn how to best facilitate what you need done. Finding a forum and venting to everyone about your inability to correct issues, or unhappiness, is counterproductive to those that are able to actually move forward and get things done. But then again, I forget that all "newer" trailers have "eternabond" over all the screws because it's better"...... Oh, I don't work for Keystone either, and I can buy any kind of trailer I want.....and I have a new Montana High Country waiting....and....it doesn't have "eternabond" over all the screws....THANK GOODNESS!!
__________________
Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
sourdough is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2020, 02:16 AM   #10
Weekender 1
Gone Traveling
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Palmyra
Posts: 62
Well when the 3 musketeers have a status quo, very acceptable attitude, it is was it is Bro, mindset I have to wonder why are they protecting this junk.
This type conveyance is what I expect from Keystone and the dealer trying to cover there ***.
My boat, my Hallmark trailer, Hell my truck, all things that will go down a highway in your category 1+hurricane had the problems these campers do. And I saw somebody posting these problems, the last thing I would do is tell them to suck it up buttercup and that's what you did and continue to do.


Just not right in any means.
Weekender 1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2020, 06:38 AM   #11
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weekender 1 View Post
Well when the 3 musketeers have a status quo, very acceptable attitude, it is was it is Bro, mindset I have to wonder why are they protecting this junk.
This type conveyance is what I expect from Keystone and the dealer trying to cover there ***.
My boat, my Hallmark trailer, Hell my truck, all things that will go down a highway in your category 1+hurricane had the problems these campers do. And I saw somebody posting these problems, the last thing I would do is tell them to suck it up buttercup and that's what you did and continue to do.


Just not right in any means.
Yeap, reality sucks sometimes. If you really don't like it, then sell your Keystone, take your chances with Forest River, Winnebago, Jayco or heck, just pick up that "free reservations book" at your local Holiday Inn, Hampton Inn or if you really like to save money, Knight's Inn.

That said, making insulting accusations or comments about moderators or members of the forum is inappropriate and won't be ignored on this forum.
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2020, 06:47 AM   #12
German Shepherd Guy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Norwood, CO
Posts: 667
Whoa there Weekender 1:

Take a deep breath.



No one on this forum has ever been anything but realistic on RV ownership since I have been a member. AND John has been absolutely A BEST RESOURSE for those of us getting into RVing.



If you spend any time on this forum you will note that we long ago came to the conclusion that quality is NOT JOB 1 for the industry. Spend some time and you will see that all manufacturers have this problem and it has been discussed and diagnosed many times here.


So you can either sit on the side of the road and complain and complain and complain about it (which will not change even one mind in the industry hierarchy) or you can join list like this to figure out how to make your unit OK and enjoyable. There is no "suck it up buttercup" mentality LEAST of all by John, which you would know if you spent any time on this list at all.
So please stop the personal attacks, and if you want to help, figure out what you can give in the way of CONSTRUCTIVE advice to the original poster DynoGuy, who is having to deal with real issues now that he owns his Raptor. Or sit down, be quiet, at let those who do want to help him do so.

JMO
Oak
__________________

German Shepherd Guy

2018 Keystone 26RBPR
2014 Suburban 2500, 6L with 3.73 rear

German Shepherd Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2020, 06:54 AM   #13
LewisB
Senior Member
 
LewisB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Tucson
Posts: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by German Shepherd Guy View Post
Whoa there Weekender 1:

Take a deep breath.

No one on this forum has ever been anything but realistic on RV ownership since I have been a member. AND John has been absolutely A BEST RESOURSE for those of us getting into RVing.

If you spend any time on this forum you will note that we long ago came to the conclusion that quality is NOT JOB 1 for the industry. Spend some time and you will see that all manufacturers have this problem and it has been discussed and diagnosed many times here.

So you can either sit on the side of the road and complain and complain and complain about it (which will not change even one mind in the industry hierarchy) or you can join list like this to figure out how to make your unit OK and enjoyable. There is no "suck it up buttercup" mentality LEAST of all by John, which you would know if you spent any time on this list at all.
So please stop the personal attacks, and if you want to help, figure out what you can give in the way of CONSTRUCTIVE advice to the original poster DynoGuy, who is having to deal with real issues now that he owns his Raptor. Or sit down, be quiet, at let those who do want to help him do so.

JMO
Oak
What Oak said...I completely agree!
__________________
Brad & Penny (50 years!)
2017 F350 DRW CC 4x4 Payload=5560
2018 Raptor 353TS
2019 Can Am Maverick Sport XRC - the "Blue Goose"

On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjc...yZ_w7jyofaPLVQ
LewisB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2020, 07:56 AM   #14
John57
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Grand Blanc
Posts: 17
Well, I do understand the problems that can occur with any moving parts, on an RV or elsewhere. I really struggle with the lack of quality coming out of the factory. I know things will break. I expect them in anything that involves motion. Its gonna happen.
I worked for a global manufacturer, everything is traceable to a date and time manufactured as well as an individual. My issue is (and really a concern for all of America's industrial complex) that these individuals responsible for the construction of the vehicle (or parts of) are being allowed to repeat over and over from one model year to the next.
It gets ignored simply because there is enough profit built into each machine to cover these issues and plenty extra. If that isnt a concern to each and every one of us we have problems far more serious than a broken RV.
Maybe its the next generation that has been heavily diagnosed with ADD and hooked to cell phones and "meds" that are more important than their job.
With all the social media, the first company to successfully eliminate a high percentage of these "over and over" issues with brand new vehicles will get my business... that's if we stay in the RV mode....
You know, its really easy to write about issues on here as some suggest, but when the manufacturer refuses to act upon the oft- repeated ones, in their own forum, that scares teh hell out of me...... but once being in industry, I know everything comes down to the dollar... and apparently there are enough of them in this industry that actions/corrective measures arent needed.
John57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2020, 08:10 AM   #15
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,841
Quote:
Originally Posted by John57 View Post
Well, I do understand the problems that can occur with any moving parts, on an RV or elsewhere. I really struggle with the lack of quality coming out of the factory. I know things will break. I expect them in anything that involves motion. Its gonna happen.
I worked for a global manufacturer, everything is traceable to a date and time manufactured as well as an individual. My issue is (and really a concern for all of America's industrial complex) that these individuals responsible for the construction of the vehicle (or parts of) are being allowed to repeat over and over from one model year to the next.
It gets ignored simply because there is enough profit built into each machine to cover these issues and plenty extra. If that isnt a concern to each and every one of us we have problems far more serious than a broken RV.
Maybe its the next generation that has been heavily diagnosed with ADD and hooked to cell phones and "meds" that are more important than their job.
With all the social media, the first company to successfully eliminate a high percentage of these "over and over" issues with brand new vehicles will get my business... that's if we stay in the RV mode....
You know, its really easy to write about issues on here as some suggest, but when the manufacturer refuses to act upon the oft- repeated ones, in their own forum, that scares teh hell out of me...... but once being in industry, I know everything comes down to the dollar... and apparently there are enough of them in this industry that actions/corrective measures arent needed.
John57,

This is NOT a "Keystone owned forum". Keystone RV (the manufacturer, not the forum owner "Social Knowledge, Inc"), of your/my trailer are NOT members of this forum, they do NOT respond to any comments on this forum and as far as I can determine, they do NOT even access or read any of the comments on this forum. This is a forum of "owners and interested public" there is simply no "factory monitoring, factory support or factory intervention" that I've ever seen or even suspected.

Check the disclaimer at the bottom of EVERY forum page: This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company. This disclaimer "used to be bolded and in red" but we found that people don't read it anyway, so that was changed a couple of years ago...

Anyone who "believes they can fix Keystone" by complaining on this forum or by "issuing threats on this forum" are wasting effort that will only be seen by other forum members (not associated with Keystone), most of, I might add, are happy, satisfied owners who can sympathize with but not provide any resolution to those who are not satisfied or happy.

If anyone wants to "fix the industry" by providing "the industry with solutions" this is not the place to converse with "the industry".... THEY AREN'T HERE !!!!!
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2020, 08:11 AM   #16
travelin texans
Senior Member
 
travelin texans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Picacho, Az
Posts: 6,809
Weekender,
Check out the red flag at the bottom of the page, there's no one from Keystone on this forum, so they are not hearing any of your bitching or name calling, which means that you haven't changed anything at Keystone or the RV industry a bit.
The ONLY one saying "suck it up buttercup" was YOU!!!
There are however lots of folks on here that have been there done that offering help to solve your problems. But to do so you may have to step away from your keyboard typing insults, pick up a tool or two & fix something yourself just as most EVERYONE on here has done.
Should there the better QC at Keystone, or any brand you choose? ABSOLUTELY YES!!
Is it likely to change in our lifetime? NOPE, NOT A CHANCE!!
As long as they can sell'em as fast as they make'm ain't nothin gonna change.
__________________
Full-timed 10+ years
Sold '13 Redwood FB
Traded '13 GMC Denali DRW D/A
Replacement undetermined
travelin texans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2020, 08:52 AM   #17
Weekender 1
Gone Traveling
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Palmyra
Posts: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by John57 View Post
Well, I do understand the problems that can occur with any moving parts, on an RV or elsewhere. I really struggle with the lack of quality coming out of the factory. I know things will break. I expect them in anything that involves motion. Its gonna happen.
I worked for a global manufacturer, everything is traceable to a date and time manufactured as well as an individual. My issue is (and really a concern for all of America's industrial complex) that these individuals responsible for the construction of the vehicle (or parts of) are being allowed to repeat over and over from one model year to the next.
It gets ignored simply because there is enough profit built into each machine to cover these issues and plenty extra. If that isnt a concern to each and every one of us we have problems far more serious than a broken RV.
Maybe its the next generation that has been heavily diagnosed with ADD and hooked to cell phones and "meds" that are more important than their job.
With all the social media, the first company to successfully eliminate a high percentage of these "over and over" issues with brand new vehicles will get my business... that's if we stay in the RV mode....
You know, its really easy to write about issues on here as some suggest, but when the manufacturer refuses to act upon the oft- repeated ones, in their own forum, that scares teh hell out of me...... but once being in industry, I know everything comes down to the dollar... and apparently there are enough of them in this industry that actions/corrective measures arent needed.



Agree!!!


Its a very simple fix but greed has taken it to new levels.
Instead of accepting Status Crap and telling everyone with problems, suck it up buttercup, use the resources and show Keystone the direction its going and how there seen!
I don't care what the Red whatever states, I bet dollar to donuts you got Keystone here and there loving your reactions to how to address arising problems. And you wouldn't see it judging on your blindness for other things.
Weekender 1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2020, 08:54 AM   #18
Weekender 1
Gone Traveling
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Palmyra
Posts: 62
Oh no, gonna be banned!!!:whistli ng::roll eyes:
Let me get some dicor and fix it.
Weekender 1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2020, 09:16 AM   #19
flybouy
Site Team
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,714
John57 the website has been addressed so I won't repeat that info.

What I do want to point out is expectations and competition. Nothing alters a manufacturers actions faster than sales, after all, making a profit and selling the product is the entire point of being in business. When a manf. builds a product and a competitor comes along and builds a SIMILAR product for less money most people will choose the lower cost. Longevity of the new product is unknown brand quality is often unknown or overlooked in pursuit of "saving money".

This happened years ago in the boating industry. Sea Ray was the "cadillac" of the recreational boat industry. Bayliner came along, copied the looks and built a discounted version. For a few years Bayliner dominated the market, that is until the word got out about all the issues that were revealed a short time during ownership. They had problems with delamination, structural issues with weak/insufficient stringer engineering, weak transoms, inferior wiring, eic.

We are going thru the same natural evolution of the RV industry. I'm old enough to remember Dutch Craft as being one of the better built trailers on the market. After the RV industry "boom" not so much. Competition drives the price and the build of the product. If consumers start buying RVs based on quality of build vs "bling for the buck" nothing will change. I won't hold my breath for that to happen.

I own a Keystone product. I am not associated in any way the Keystone company. So with that said, if anyone can find an RV that's a comparable price with comparable size, comparable furnishings, finishes, and appliances that's built substantially better than I'd urge you to buy it and share the information with the rest of us so we can have the choice.
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
flybouy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2020, 09:21 AM   #20
LewisB
Senior Member
 
LewisB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Tucson
Posts: 822
What are your expectations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by John57 View Post
...the first company to successfully eliminate a high percentage of these "over and over" issues with brand new vehicles will get my business... that's if we stay in the RV mode...
Same wavelength with Marshall - I would submit that this is mostly about "expectations...".

Forum expectations: This is not a Keystone Forum - John & Danny have already covered that issue.

RV Quality Expectations: The broader issue is our individual/personal expectations regarding "quality". Our first RV was a 13' travel trailer pulled by an old Chevy (see photo). When I step into our current 2018 Raptor, I see 2 bathrooms, heating, AC, a giant refrigerator, TV, bed, heated massage couch, etc., guess which one I think is "higher quality"? Compare that old Chevy to my big DRW pulling at 68 mph on the freeway!

So listening to someone list loose molding, cracked flooring, cabinet doors that are not in perfect alignment, etc. pretty much go in and out of my head with no impact. I'm more than happy to get out my tools and do a little work on my rig - it actually gives me pleasure. The difference between our first and our current RV demonstrate capitalism at its very best - technological growth that has enriched our lives beyond any reasonable expectation. A vast majority of RV owners are more than happy to pay current prices for these travelling suites (no intended reference to Grand Design, haha).

The wonderful thing about capitalism is that you have a choice. If you are unhappy with the Fords and Chevy's of the RV industry, then step up to the Mercedes versions. You may get your expected quality at twice the price - they are there, go find them. (Of course, some of you will undoubtedly be disappointed in their quality as well; thank heavens there's a different forum for those users).
Then:
Click image for larger version

Name:	305FirstTrailer.jpg
Views:	326
Size:	367.2 KB
ID:	25407
Click image for larger version

Name:	306FirstTrailer.jpg
Views:	388
Size:	361.0 KB
ID:	25408
And Now:
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1957.jpg
Views:	380
Size:	159.0 KB
ID:	25409
__________________
Brad & Penny (50 years!)
2017 F350 DRW CC 4x4 Payload=5560
2018 Raptor 353TS
2019 Can Am Maverick Sport XRC - the "Blue Goose"

On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjc...yZ_w7jyofaPLVQ
LewisB is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
raptor

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.