Balance or No Balance

[the sodfather]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

The only reason I can come up with to not balance? Just plain too cheap to spend the money.....

Ya, spend thousands of dollars on an rv/trailer/whatever and try to save $30 on balancing. Makes no sense to me. Unfortunately your probably right...

[gearhead]

If it can be balanced it should be balanced.
.....Gearhead

[CWtheMan]

Trailer tire balancing is lug centric.

http://www.loadstartrailertires.com/...lbalancing.pdf

[huhhhhh]

So my 2012 Fuzion 405 has the aluminum rims rated at 110 psi. How do I find out what brand the rim is and if it is Hub or Lug Centric. I thought all the aluminum rims center holes and lug holes are machined on center.

[chuckster57]

Lug centric wheels will have lug nuts with a tapered end to "center" the wheel. Hub centric wheels use lug nuts with and integrated washer to hold the wheel.

Brand may be stamped or cast on the back side of the rim.

[huhhhhh]

Coming from a machining background if the rims are machined the center hole and lug holes are machined concentric to each other. So if the taper lug nuts position the wheel on center the hub hole should also be on center. I'm thinking it wouldn't matter if the tire was balanced with lug nuts or the center taper nut on the balancing machine as both will put the tire on true center.

Any one agree or am I missing something.

I understand the difference on a steel rim where the center hole may not be concentric to the lug holes how this is important.

[chuckster57]

I may be wrong ( sure won't be the first time) but LUG centric wheels have a larger than hub diameter, which would allow for excess wobble if lugs were loose. HUB centric wheels have a much tighter tolerance.

[canesfan]

Originally Posted by huhhhhh

So my 2012 Fuzion 405 has the aluminum rims rated at 110 psi. How do I find out what brand the rim is and if it is Hub or Lug Centric. I thought all the aluminum rims center holes and lug holes are machined on center.

Sendel wheels are stamped on the outside. Mine are stamped in a spoke.

So with all this talk, what are Sendel wheels, lug or hub centric? I just did a bunch of searches and couldn't find anything. Would be good to know since I'm going to be having this done in a week or two.

[canesfan]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

I may be wrong ( sure won't be the first time) but LUG centric wheels have a larger than hub diameter, which would allow for excess wobble if lugs were loose. HUB centric wheels have a much tighter tolerance.

From everything I just read, that is my understanding, too.

[66joej]

From my understanding they are lug centric. Tapered lug nuts. I think.

[canesfan]

Lug or Hub Centric - So I called Sendel and asked. He said pretty much all trailer wheels are lug centric because there are many different axle mfgs and the tolerances are not tight enough to make them hub centric. He told me a lot and was very helpful and informative. He also said balancing trailer wheels is a crap shoot, because as the trailer sits the tires flat spot and until you get rolling down the road and it heats up and "adjusts" itself they are going to be out of balance anyway. Makes sense.

He also told me about self correcting weight bags, that I have never heard of. He said I might want to look into them since I have 16" wheels. He said they are'nt very good for smaller wheels but 16" and bigger they are. So now I have something else to look into.

[huhhhhh]

I can confirm that my lug nuts are tapered and that is what's locating the wheel on the axle. Until I can pull a tire off and look at the center hole I won't know if the center hole is machined or just a cast hole. If it's machined it should be concentric to the lug holes thus making no difference if the tire shop uses lug nuts or the standard center nut on their balancing machine. If the center hole is cast then I agree that only lug nuts should be used by the tire shop to balance. I wouldn't think a cast center hole would be very concentric to the lug holes.

Maybe a call to the rim manufacture will shed some light on the center hole being concentric to lug holes or not.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by canesfan

...
He also told me about self correcting weight bags, that I have never heard of. He said I might want to look into them since I have 16" wheels. He said they are'nt very good for smaller wheels but 16" and bigger they are. So now I have something else to look into.

You might want to talk with the tire manufacturer and specifically ask the question: Will using balance beads in your brand tire void the warranty?

The Maxxis, Trailer King, Tow Max warranties all specifically state that tires with sealant, any solids or gasses other than air or nitrogen are not covered.

Carlisle's warranty states, "Sealants or other substances".... While it doesn't specifically state, "Balance beads", does Carlisle consider them "other substance" ???

With all the back and forth decision making you're doing, you might want to not void the tire warranty based on something suggested by a tire manufacturer spokesman......

[Outback 325BH]

According to many on these (and other) forums and tire stores, something magical happens when you put wheels and tires on a trailer that negates the need to balance.

All those issues with out-of-balance wheels and tires? That only happens on cars and trucks... but do not happen on trailers. Bouncing? Shaking? Abnormal tire wear? Wear and tear on other components due to shaking and/or vibrations? (I could go on and on.) Doesn't happen on a trailer... just on cars and trucks.

The rules of physics doesn't apply to trailers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rcwyatt]

Been reading all of this. Interesting discussion. I decided to call my car guy about balancing the 4 on my camper. He told me he has balanced very few in all of his years in business and in his opinion he didn't think it was necessary. BUT if I wanted them balanced it would be $40 apiece. Charges just $7.50 for a vehicle tire. Obvious he doesn't want to do it. Would it be that much more for the lug centric tire?

[CWtheMan]

Centramatic Balancers.

http://www.centramatic.com/wheel-bal...pe=Trailers-RV

[Desert185]

Originally Posted by canesfan

Lug or Hub Centric - So I called Sendel and asked. He said pretty much all trailer wheels are lug centric because there are many different axle mfgs and the tolerances are not tight enough to make them hub centric. He told me a lot and was very helpful and informative. He also said balancing trailer wheels is a crap shoot, because as the trailer sits the tires flat spot and until you get rolling down the road and it heats up and "adjusts" itself they are going to be out of balance anyway. Makes sense.

He also told me about self correcting weight bags, that I have never heard of. He said I might want to look into them since I have 16" wheels. He said they are'nt very good for smaller wheels but 16" and bigger they are. So now I have something else to look into.

I would pass on the self-correcting weights. Do some research on the idea.

As a somewhat related sidenote on the theory...a friend balances props on airplanes. There is a method using the self-correcting weight to dynamic balance propellors in action. He did a balance on an airplane with them installed and it was a fail. FWIW...

[Desert185]

Originally Posted by Outback 325BH

According to many on these (and other) forums and tire stores, something magical happens when you put wheels and tires on a trailer that negates the need to balance.

All those issues with out-of-balance wheels and tires? That only happens on cars and trucks... but do not happen on trailers. Bouncing? Shaking? Abnormal tire wear? Wear and tear on other components due to shaking and/or vibrations? (I could go on and on.) Doesn't happen on a trailer... just on cars and trucks.

The rules of physics doesn't apply to trailers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Tires on trailers are in a safe space sanctuary.

[Desert185]

Originally Posted by CWtheMan

Centramatic Balancers.

http://www.centramatic.com/wheel-bal...pe=Trailers-RV

This is the same type of balancing device that was a fail on the mentioned prop balance. Maybe good enough for a mounted trailer tire, but not a dynamic balance on a prop. I think I'll continue with the stick on weights.

[Drydays]

Originally Posted by huhhhhh

Just bought a 2012 Fuzion 405. Flew from Colorado Springs to Ft. Irwin to look at it before the purchase. Seller put on two new tires a week before I showed up and I decided to replace the other 4 to be safe for the 1000 mile trip back to Colorado Springs.

I asked the Firestone guy to mount and balance the 4 tires we took off the trailer to bring him and didn't notice until we had them all back on that there were no weights on them. Called the guy back and he said they never balance trailer tires. This didn't sound right to me so wanted to post here for opinions.

I had to fly back out early the next morning and the transporter is showing up Monday to haul it off. I didn't have any time to find another place to have them balanced.

I am a bit concerned that this is not a good situation for a 1000 mile trip.

I have done so many miles,,, and seen un balanced bounce all the time. I guess they love the feel of that vibration as a constant reminder that they are pulling a trailer.
My self, every tire that goes on any trailer I pull will/shall have tires balanced. A smoother ride, better wear on the treads and longer tire life. A non balanced trailer is like a guy who likes drinking a lite beer,, he doesn't like the taste of beer , he just likes going to the pot. As his tires will faster.
Thats' all.
C