Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone Tech Forums > Towing
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 11-05-2014, 08:57 AM   #1
gepaine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Carnation, WA
Posts: 190
Enough Truck?

I'm looking at buying a 2015 Keystone Montana 3725RL with a dry weight of about 12,500 lbs and a dry hitch weight of 2815 lbs. I am also planning to buy a 2015 Chevy Silverado 3500 Duramax SRW to pull it with. It has a 3.73 rear end, a 5th wheel tow rating of 17,100 lbs, and a payload rating of 4264 lbs. I plan on adding air bags to it.

I calculate the expected load to be:

dry hitch hitch weight = 2815
added hitch weight from cargo in trailer = 400
weight of slide hitch = 150
weight of passengers = 400
misc cargo = 150

Total = 3915

Given that Keystone is known for understating dry weights, I expect that the actual payload may be very close to the 4264 lbs rating.

Is anyone towing a similar 5th wheel with a similar vehicle?

Will I be pushing the Silverado too far?

I know the obvious solution is to go to a dually, but my garage isn't wide enough.

Thanks
__________________

2011 Keystone Cougar 24RKS
2007 Cadillac Escalade
Prodigy P2 Brake Controller
Past Trailer:
Forest River R-POD RP-175
Past Tow Vehicle:
2008 Toyota Sienna
gepaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2014, 01:27 PM   #2
KanTC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 1,270
gepaine,

Have you checked the payload sticker on the *actual* truck you intend to purchase -or- are you using the payload info from
the brochure? Truck manufacturers list an "up to" [best case scenario] payload weight, for a base model truck with no
options. The truck you buy [with options??] may weigh more & therefore have "less" available payload than advertised.

RV manufacturers don't (necessarily) under-estimate the advertised dry/shipping weights... the numbers shown (in the specs)
are an *averaged* weight for a standard build (base model) unit with no options/upgrades added. If the 5th wheel you buy has
numerous options/upgrades, it will likely weigh more (possibly a lot more) than shown in the specs. Many times, this gives
buyers the impression that manufacturers are mis-representing the dry/shipping weights, and that's typically not the case.
It'd be a huge catalog (print/online) if they provided "exact" weights for every model & possible combination of options!

All that said, it's best to check the weights/numbers of the actual (or nearly identical) items you plan to purchase. If the Truck
or RV dealers aren't local...??... find the units online, call and ask for specific (weight) info. If they're interested in your business,
they'll work with you (by phone) & answer any questions. Most dealers are helpful, and we've used this approach more than once
when making (long distance) RV purchases - saved us time, fuel, & headaches. On our most recent RV, the dealer (in another
state) even measured the bathroom (toilet/water closet) for me, before we talked about price/deals.

Hope this helps,
Terri, the Chevy co-pilot
__________________
'06 Chevy 2500HD 6.6L Duramax/Allison 4x4 CC SB
2010 Laredo 265RL {SOLD}
Reese 15K Pro-series (manual slide)
KanTC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2014, 01:28 PM   #3
chuckster57
Site Team
 
chuckster57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,237
King pin is before batteries and propane. How much fuel will be in the truck tank(s).
__________________

2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.

Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
chuckster57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2014, 01:56 PM   #4
gepaine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Carnation, WA
Posts: 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by KanTC View Post
gepaine,

Have you checked the payload sticker on the *actual* truck you intend to purchase -or- are you using the payload info from
the brochure? Truck manufacturers list an "up to" [best case scenario] payload weight, for a base model truck with no
options. The truck you buy [with options??] may weigh more & therefore have "less" available payload than advertised.

RV manufacturers don't (necessarily) under-estimate the advertised dry/shipping weights... the numbers shown (in the specs)
are an *averaged* weight for a standard build (base model) unit with no options/upgrades added. If the 5th wheel you buy has
numerous options/upgrades, it will likely weigh more (possibly a lot more) than shown in the specs. Many times, this gives
buyers the impression that manufacturers are mis-representing the dry/shipping weights, and that's typically not the case.
It'd be a huge catalog (print/online) if they provided "exact" weights for every model & possible combination of options!

All that said, it's best to check the weights/numbers of the actual (or nearly identical) items you plan to purchase. If the Truck
or RV dealers aren't local...??... find the units online, call and ask for specific (weight) info. If they're interested in your business,
they'll work with you (by phone) & answer any questions. Most dealers are helpful, and we've used this approach more than once
when making (long distance) RV purchases - saved us time, fuel, & headaches. On our most recent RV, the dealer (in another
state) even measured the bathroom (toilet/water closet) for me, before we talked about price/deals.

Hope this helps,
Terri, the Chevy co-pilot
It did help. Thanks.

I am using the payload from the brochure, but I will review the options list and adjust my figures accordingly.
__________________

2011 Keystone Cougar 24RKS
2007 Cadillac Escalade
Prodigy P2 Brake Controller
Past Trailer:
Forest River R-POD RP-175
Past Tow Vehicle:
2008 Toyota Sienna
gepaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2014, 02:04 PM   #5
gepaine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Carnation, WA
Posts: 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckster57 View Post
King pin is before batteries and propane. How much fuel will be in the truck tank(s).
I included the weight of the batteries and propane in my "cargo" estimate.

Also, I just chatted online with someone at Chevrolet.com and was given this definition of curb weight: "The Curb Weight is a measure of the shipping weight plus fuel to capacity."

I found in researching this that there are many definitions of "curb weight" depending on which organization is defining it. For example, some (such as European auto makers) include 75 kg's (about 165 pounds) for the weight of the driver. I guess you have to go to the source (such as Chevy) to understand what is included.
__________________

2011 Keystone Cougar 24RKS
2007 Cadillac Escalade
Prodigy P2 Brake Controller
Past Trailer:
Forest River R-POD RP-175
Past Tow Vehicle:
2008 Toyota Sienna
gepaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2014, 02:07 PM   #6
gearhead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Liberty, Texas
Posts: 5,021
If it has an optional 2nd A/C up front add that. If it has washer/dryer hookups up front I bet you will eventually get one. 150# for the combo.
I started with a 2175 pin weight and am at 2700 before the W/D unit. Cargo bay is only 1/2 full.
Sounds heavy for SRW.
Check the "yellow sticker" on similar trucks.
My Ford F350 diesel SRW payload is 3265 per the yellow sticker.
__________________
2018 Ram 3500 Laramie CC DRW LWB 4X4 Cummins Aisin 3.73
Reese Goosebox 20K
2018 Heartland Landmark 365 Oshkosh
2008 Bigfoot 25C9.4 LB Cabover
gearhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2014, 02:54 PM   #7
KanTC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 1,270
Quote:
Originally Posted by gepaine View Post
.......For example, some (such as European auto makers) include 75 kg's (about 165 pounds) for the weight of the driver. I guess you have to go to the source (such as Chevy) to understand what is included.
Chevy/GM uses 150 lb (driver weight) in their calculations.

"Because the trailer weight rating is calculated for a line of
vehicles, rather than an individual load situation, some
standardized assumptions are made when calculating the
trailer weight rating. First, the base curb weight of that type
of vehicle is used (the weight of a standard equipped vehicle
without any options). Second, it is assumed that there is only
one person in the vehicle (the driver) who weighs 150 lbs."

Quote taken (in part) from the 2013 Trailer Guide --
http://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam...0eBrochure.pdf

Terri, the Chevy co-pilot
__________________
'06 Chevy 2500HD 6.6L Duramax/Allison 4x4 CC SB
2010 Laredo 265RL {SOLD}
Reese 15K Pro-series (manual slide)
KanTC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2014, 04:45 PM   #8
gepaine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Carnation, WA
Posts: 190
Thanks for everyone's help.

I just can't get comfortable with the likelihood that I will exceed the 3500's payload rating so the wife and I have decided to continue looking for a new trailer. I know there must be many people out there exceeding their tow vehicle's ratings with no problems, but I just don't want to do it.

Thanks.
__________________

2011 Keystone Cougar 24RKS
2007 Cadillac Escalade
Prodigy P2 Brake Controller
Past Trailer:
Forest River R-POD RP-175
Past Tow Vehicle:
2008 Toyota Sienna
gepaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2014, 04:58 PM   #9
BOWWOW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: colorado
Posts: 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by gepaine View Post
Thanks for everyone's help.

I just can't get comfortable with the likelihood that I will exceed the 3500's payload rating so the wife and I have decided to continue looking for a new trailer. I know there must be many people out there exceeding their tow vehicle's ratings with no problems, but I just don't want to do it.

Thanks.
Nothing is worse than being under trucked! Have you considered a DRW?
__________________
2007.5 Silverado 3500 HD,DRW, LTZ red, afe II airbox w/ torque tube, transferflow 56 gal replacement tank,
banks speed brake, transgo jr shiftkit, aux trans cooler, b&w companion hitch.

2010 Fuzion FZ 302 has 12ply F-loads, Dexter ez-flex w/ wet bolts, 6 volt Deka GC 15 batteries, 1 gen battery, solarpanels, leds inside, replaced clear textured door glass with tinted, 87 gallons of loc-tite.
Decals removed.
AKA CONFUZION / PORH HONKY.
BOWWOW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2014, 05:12 PM   #10
bsmith0404
Senior Member
 
bsmith0404's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Las Cruces
Posts: 4,665
Personal opinion you won't exceed the payload on a 3500 SRW. I have a similar size RV, pin weight almost exact. I was over the payload of my 2500 by 400 lbs, but within the 3500. I went with the DRW for comfort, but could have gone with the SRW. Also, lose the added weight of a slider, you don't need it.
__________________

Brent
2013 Alpine 3500RE
2019 Silverado 2500HD Duramax
U.S. Air Force Retired (25 yrs)
bsmith0404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2014, 05:13 PM   #11
gepaine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Carnation, WA
Posts: 190
I considered a DRW briefly, but it is too wide for my garage - unless I park the other car outside.
__________________

2011 Keystone Cougar 24RKS
2007 Cadillac Escalade
Prodigy P2 Brake Controller
Past Trailer:
Forest River R-POD RP-175
Past Tow Vehicle:
2008 Toyota Sienna
gepaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2014, 06:26 PM   #12
jhudson
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 9
I have a 2014 3725RL and a 2012 3500 srw Chevy duramax . I have weighed both last year and this year. So here you go.
Truck by itself. Steer axle 4760 - 4820. Rat ing is 6000#. Rear axle 3460 - 3660. Rating is 7050. GVWR for my truck is 11600#. Truck is fully loaded with two passengers, one dog bd3 air hitch, two Honda 2000 generators and six gallons of extra gas for generators.
Now hooked to the 3725, steer axle 4800-4900#. Drive axle 6620 - 6980. Trailer axles 11260-11360#. Gross weight 22680 - 23240#. 1820 -1260 under GCWR of 24500#. First year weighing 180# under GVWR. This year I had to go on a diet. 280# over GVWR. 430 - 70# under rear axle rating. 1200 - 1100# under front axle rating. Pin weight for my 3725 is 3200 - 3400#. 14460 - 14760# for gross weight of the 3725.

I do not have air bags as the trucker does not need them. The 3500 have the overload springs and will rest just above them with my 3725 when static.
We absolutely love the 3725RL and the Silverado. I now have trimmed the weight back to be within the trucks GVWR. You will find with the storage that the 3725 offers, it is easy to fill it up.

Lastly I must apologize for and spelling and typos as I usually use the computer and not my phone. I hope you will find this information useful.
__________________
Using Tapatalk
jhudson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2014, 08:28 PM   #13
gepaine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Carnation, WA
Posts: 190
Thanks for the detailed reply. Your actual experience (weight wise) was very much inline with my estimates. For example, I had estimated that we would be about 300 pounds under GVWR, but might actually be 300 or 400 pounds over depending on variables such as my actual cargo, weight of options, etc. This potential to go over and possibly affect the way the 3500 performed (or affected safety) was concerning me. Apparently it concerns you also as you say you went on a diet.

During the times you were over-weight, did you notice any difference in how your rig handled, etc?

How does the 3500 ride when empty? (We drove both a 2500 and a 3500, and thought the 3500 gave a considerably stiffer ride than the 2500.)

Is your 3500 the standard bed or the long bed?

Thanks
__________________

2011 Keystone Cougar 24RKS
2007 Cadillac Escalade
Prodigy P2 Brake Controller
Past Trailer:
Forest River R-POD RP-175
Past Tow Vehicle:
2008 Toyota Sienna
gepaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2014, 01:00 AM   #14
kimbashaw
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Fort Covington NY
Posts: 40
I pull a similar fifth wheel but went with a dually
kimbashaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2014, 02:12 AM   #15
jhudson
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 9
I could not tell any difference when I was over. Truck sat and handled the same.

The ride empty is very good. You still know that you are driving a truck.

My 2012 is a 4X4 extended cab long bed LTZ. It is quite capable and easy to keep within its GVWR with the 3725. Just do not fill it with stuff that really is not needed. However with that said, I did it but now I really pay attention to it now. I just have to watch out for the DW. Many cabinets that she can put extra stuff in. That just in case stuff can really get you.

I do not think you will have any issues with either truck or trailer if you go that way. I had the same issue, DRW would not fit in the garage, and wife will drive the SRW but not a DRW. I do not know why not as the length of both is the same. But as we all know we must keep them happy [emoji1]
__________________
Using Tapatalk
jhudson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2014, 06:54 AM   #16
gepaine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Carnation, WA
Posts: 190
jhudson,

My garage is too narrow as well as too short so I would have to go with the crew cab, short bed, SRW. Regarding the empty ride, I take it that you meant that the 3500 rides very good for a truck. This is important to us since we go on long trips with lots of sightseeing around each stop.

We have not been able to test drive a 3500 short bed since they just are not available at this time where we live. So our ride comparison has been between a 3500 long bed and a 2500 short bed. We think the 2500 short bed has a very good ride - period. The 3500's stiffer ride may be due to the long bed (longer wheel base), but I think it probably has more to do with the different springs.

Anyone else have a comment on this?
__________________

2011 Keystone Cougar 24RKS
2007 Cadillac Escalade
Prodigy P2 Brake Controller
Past Trailer:
Forest River R-POD RP-175
Past Tow Vehicle:
2008 Toyota Sienna
gepaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2014, 12:02 PM   #17
bsmith0404
Senior Member
 
bsmith0404's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Las Cruces
Posts: 4,665
The 3500 will be a little stiffer in the rear, has to support the extra weight somehow. The front suspension is the same between the two trucks. You notice the ride difference when you go from one to the other, but once you drive it daily, it is a nice enough ride that you don't really notice it anymore. We take our truck on trips empty all of the time. With the rear entertainment systems and the larger cab size it's just so much nicer with 3 teenagers than packing everyone in the car. We never complain about the ride on long trips.
__________________

Brent
2013 Alpine 3500RE
2019 Silverado 2500HD Duramax
U.S. Air Force Retired (25 yrs)
bsmith0404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2014, 03:14 PM   #18
jhudson
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 9
We travel long distances with the 3725 in tow. Last season traveled 8000 miles total tow miles. We too when stopped use the 3500 as our tour vehicle. Both wife and I find it very comfortable when solo.

It is not a passenger car and still a truck so unloaded you will feel the road more than a car, but it is a very good ride. My truck has the 6000# rated axle for snow plow. I ordered that because of what I tow and I never use this vehicle in the winter but wanted the heavier front axle rating. I will say it is stiffer riding in the front than the non-snow plow option, but very nice ride for a 1 ton truck.

I tow no faster than 60 mph and travel around 300 to 350 miles per day. Like to stop earlier and look around the area that I will be staying. I use to tow with a 99 Dodge with the Cummins and that was a "mans" truck. Rough ride solo or loaded and very noisey, but I loved that truck. Now with the Chevy, the old Dodge was not in the same class as the Chevy, but have to give than Dodge credit as it was 13 years older. By the way, the Dodge never saw the Montana, there was no way it could ever handle the pin weight. Towed a Titanium with it for 10 years. Prior that I towed a Jayco.

As for trailer, Montana is hands down the best trailer I have ever owned.

Many choices out there, and I am very pleased with both truck and trailer. I am glad I did not order the DRW, but have to monitor weights. Not a big deal for me as I pass CAT scales all the time.

Good luck with your decision.

Jay
__________________
Using Tapatalk
jhudson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2014, 02:01 PM   #19
BOWWOW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: colorado
Posts: 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by gepaine View Post
jhudson,

My garage is too narrow as well as too short so I would have to go with the crew cab, short bed, SRW. Regarding the empty ride, I take it that you meant that the 3500 rides very good for a truck. This is important to us since we go on long trips with lots of sightseeing around each stop.

We have not been able to test drive a 3500 short bed since they just are not available at this time where we live. So our ride comparison has been between a 3500 long bed and a 2500 short bed. We think the 2500 short bed has a very good ride - period. The 3500's stiffer ride may be due to the long bed (longer wheel base), but I think it probably has more to do with the different springs.

Anyone else have a comment on this?
One of the main reasons that I stay with a DRW is that I have had the right rear inside go flat on me unrealized in the mountains for several hundred miles, I'm just glad that there was another wheel to take up the slack. I believe that between the DRW and the long bed I have maximized the stability. Having had some close ones stability is on top of the list for things I want from a TV.
__________________
2007.5 Silverado 3500 HD,DRW, LTZ red, afe II airbox w/ torque tube, transferflow 56 gal replacement tank,
banks speed brake, transgo jr shiftkit, aux trans cooler, b&w companion hitch.

2010 Fuzion FZ 302 has 12ply F-loads, Dexter ez-flex w/ wet bolts, 6 volt Deka GC 15 batteries, 1 gen battery, solarpanels, leds inside, replaced clear textured door glass with tinted, 87 gallons of loc-tite.
Decals removed.
AKA CONFUZION / PORH HONKY.
BOWWOW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2014, 05:07 PM   #20
gearhead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Liberty, Texas
Posts: 5,021
I would suggest when you test drive trucks to check the tire pressure. My F350 is pretty harsh riding with 80PSI in the rear tires. If I'm not towing I let them down to 70PSI. That takes a lot of the harshness out and it rides a lot better around town.
__________________
2018 Ram 3500 Laramie CC DRW LWB 4X4 Cummins Aisin 3.73
Reese Goosebox 20K
2018 Heartland Landmark 365 Oshkosh
2008 Bigfoot 25C9.4 LB Cabover
gearhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.