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09-19-2022, 07:23 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Mico, TX
Posts: 7,392
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Outback makes top 5!
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wiredgeorge Mico TX
2006 F350 CC 4WD 6.0L
2002 Keystone Cougar 278
2006 GL1800 Roadsmith Trike
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09-19-2022, 07:45 PM
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#2
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Site Team
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,598
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I read those things with a grain of salt. As we see on this forum and others the magnitude of the fault generally lies in the eye of the owner. The pre-delivery inspection that was done is often non existent. The use, abuse (owner not knowing what/how to use RV systems) many times contribute to a horrible experience simply from inexperience. JMO
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Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
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09-20-2022, 04:44 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 335
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The list was compiled by some one who is full-timing in and R-Pod and is a dog trainer. Presumably she is also a on-line journalist.
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Steve & Patti
2018 Grand Design Reflection 315 RLTS
2019 Chevy 2500 HD Diesel Z71
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09-20-2022, 05:53 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Mico, TX
Posts: 7,392
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I thought it curious that the Outback was singled out when the BBB complaints were for various models with no specific Outback issues in the majority.
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wiredgeorge Mico TX
2006 F350 CC 4WD 6.0L
2002 Keystone Cougar 278
2006 GL1800 Roadsmith Trike
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09-20-2022, 06:13 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,664
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Too bad about the Outback, if it be true, false, or just prejudiced againt.
We had a 2013 Outback 298re for 5 years purchased brand new. We had "zero" problem with it. The only issue was the front cap faded and spotted up. Keystone did do a repaint under warranty.
After 5 years, we still had zero issues ... until I went to replace the original battery. Then the wiring to the battery was so corroded the bolt broke on the battery terminal, which resulted in having to replace that wire, which broke at the next end where it was joined with several more wires, which also broke, and I ended up have to replace a lot of wire coming off the battery. I Jerry-rigged it all back together (really my fault. They had never been touched in 5 years). The got me to looking at some other things going on. Slide valves were kind of sticking and not moving smooth any more for the holding tanks. Carpet inside was looking poorly from lots of use, and other things like this.
But functionally, the trailer had no issues on anything, ever! Other than my own stupidity, like turning on the electric on the water heater and there was no water in the tank! Oh duh!
Mine must have been built on a Tuesday! It was a darn good camper. Too bad Outback made this list ... for whatever reason!
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2019 Montana High Country 375FL
2014 Chevy Duramax HD 6.6 - 3500 Diesel Dully Long bed Crew Cab
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09-20-2022, 06:20 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Las Cruces
Posts: 4,665
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Yeah. I don’t think Outback is anywhere near the others in this list. It doesn’t surprise me that Thor has two at the top. Unless they’ve changed, Thor doesn’t have a PDI department. They’re thought was it’s cheaper to put it on the dealer to fix things under warranty than to fix them before they leave the factory. Combine that with a dealer that doesn’t Dona thorough PDI and you have a lot of problems.
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09-20-2022, 09:14 AM
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#7
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Site Team
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmith0404
Yeah. I don’t think Outback is anywhere near the others in this list. It doesn’t surprise me that Thor has two at the top. Unless they’ve changed, Thor doesn’t have a PDI department. They’re thought was it’s cheaper to put it on the dealer to fix things under warranty than to fix them before they leave the factory. Combine that with a dealer that doesn’t Dona thorough PDI and you have a lot of problems.
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I got to tour the Newmar plant, have talked in person to the gen mgr of Grand Design. Both said unless it was a major functional issue, the assembly line won’t stop and it is cheaper to have the dealer fix it.
But that requires a dealership to actually PDI a unit before it’s delivered. Worked for a very short time that Pre PDI’d units before putting them on the sales lot. Know of a dealer that doesn’t even do a Manometer test prior to delivery, and then says they are 6-8 months out on scheduling.
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2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.
Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
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09-20-2022, 09:36 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Upper Chesapeake Bay
Posts: 4,804
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This guy is a former Amish person who I think works in the factory’s now hooking up stereos. He paints a picture of a good work ethic. I didn’t realize they only work until 12 pm though if I understand it correctly. And the Amish crack is donuts
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2020 Cougar 315 RLS
2020 Ram 3500 6.7HO 4.10 Dually Aisin
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09-20-2022, 09:59 AM
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#9
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Daytona Beach
Posts: 34
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In defense of no one or any company I remember reading that all segments of manufacturing went bonkers around April 2020 when the scary flu bug kicked into overdrive. Plants were closed, workers were sick and production halted. I read that temporary workers were utilized in many industries including automotive and recreational vehicles. It was advised not to purchase vehicles built between April and the end of that summer. I feel I got lucky in that my ‘20 F-150 was made in January, with no problem other than the dashboard warping that Ford has known about since 2015 or so. And hadn’t corrected. My Winnebago Adventurer had the faulty windshield frames that literally rotted out around the glass. My ‘14 Silverado had problems with the AC which Chevy had known about for several years. They all tend to ignore issues rather than retool a problem, and Keystone is no different. I have owned five RVs to date all with their own quirks but we had a blast with them and most every problem I had was my own neglect of all the things you people talk about like proper maintenance and upkeep. I heard dragging these things down the road is equivalent to a Cat 3 hurricane. She’s got two years experience and is trying to sell articles. It’s older but I love my Outback, flaws and all. I’m with Mr. Sourdough, ‘grain of salt’!
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John Santy
‘06 Kargoroo 28KRS
‘20 F-150 XLT
‘00 FLHRCI
‘21 Royal Enfield Himalayan
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09-20-2022, 10:16 AM
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#10
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Site Team
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,598
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That was an interesting video with an interesting perspective. I think he is probably right. The Amish used to be known as great craftsmen; in some things they still are. I think it was wrong for some manufacturers to stress Amish craftsmanship in their RVs while pushing those individuals past the point of "craftsmanship" with unrealistic production quotas. It not only results in errors during construction it ruins the Amish reputation for quality. I am not surprised at all about the dependability and also agree 100% with his assessment of other workers that typically take those day jobs - met and dealt with lots of them. Lastly, his observation about money and what it does is again on point. It's a shame that such a retro lifestyle is being ruined but it's sort of what we do these days.
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Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
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09-20-2022, 06:35 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Monroeville
Posts: 1,548
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I have no experience with any of the models that are not recommended, but given the list compiler is a professional dog trainer who full times in a RPOD with 4 dogs, I would take that list with a grain of salt. She compiled it based on "consistently bad reviews", without doing a statistical analysis on the number of models built or % of models recalled/repaired. We also know people are louder for the bad things and mostly silent when things go perfectly, so signaling out only bad reviews can lead to bias. But creating the list without any numerical analysis and just basing it on canvassing bad reviews means this list should probably be treated and believed like any other common clickbait article.
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2014 Bullet Premier 29bh in Charocal
2019 Ram 2500 HD 4x4, CC, 6.4L
2011 Passport 2510RB (Sold)
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09-20-2022, 06:56 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Liberty, Texas
Posts: 5,021
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^What I was thinking. Anyone that fulltimes in a R Pod with 4 dogs has questionable intelligence to me.
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2018 Ram 3500 Laramie CC DRW LWB 4X4 Cummins Aisin 3.73
Reese Goosebox 20K
2018 Heartland Landmark 365 Oshkosh
2008 Bigfoot 25C9.4 LB Cabover
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09-20-2022, 07:28 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Rockett, TX
Posts: 480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchmensport
Too bad about the Outback, if it be true, false, or just prejudiced againt.
We had a 2013 Outback 298re for 5 years purchased brand new. We had "zero" problem with it. The only issue was the front cap faded and spotted up. Keystone did do a repaint under warranty.
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We had the same experience with the front cap on our 2013 Outback. Never had any other issues with that trailer and its overall quality was the reason we went with Keystone when we up sized to a fifth wheel.
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Jerry & Debbie
with Fur Babies Sasha & Sam
2018 Alpine 3401RS
2019 Ford F350 SRW
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09-21-2022, 02:40 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Upper Chesapeake Bay
Posts: 4,804
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the internet is great in that anybody with a keyboard can become a “journalist”
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2020 Cougar 315 RLS
2020 Ram 3500 6.7HO 4.10 Dually Aisin
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09-21-2022, 05:20 AM
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#15
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Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,710
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As was stated reading with "a grain of salt" is good advice, personally I read (rarely this type of drivel) with skepticism. I don't consider a piece with virtually no cited facts and one single quote from someone about a product as journalism. "Newspapers" have been this way since the days of Ben Franklin and before. These days, the "News Media" likes to take a Twitter post, call it a "confirmed source" and run it as fact.
As for comments on the Amish, they are just people too. It's a religion and like any religion there are varied members. We have spent a lot of time in PA around Lancaster and have come to know a few Amish families. Long story but a niece has a child with a rare disorder that's mostly found in Ahmish communities as it requires both parents carry the recessive gene that causes it.
Over the last 30 years I have noticed more of the community working off the farms, more Amish selling goods they make and sadly a lot of "puppy mills". I don't blame the Amish as the Lancaster Valley area is predominatly a tourism attraction and people started visity because of the Amish. So to my thinking, profiting from that tourism that they spawned is only fair.
There is another community that's similar in the same region. They are the Mennonite and are often mistaken for Amish by those unfamiliar with the religions. So I'm not chastising nor defending the community but simply reflecting my experiences and observations. YMMV
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Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
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10-17-2022, 07:01 AM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 499
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I'm going with Gegrad on this one.
Who of us take the time to write and share good stuff?
We have a whole industry that is taught, and practices, "Bad news sells"
Life is turning into one giant soap opera.
Go camping folks, its why we bought these lousy rigs
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10-17-2022, 07:44 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Las Cruces
Posts: 4,665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gegrad
I have no experience with any of the models that are not recommended, but given the list compiler is a professional dog trainer who full times in a RPOD with 4 dogs, I would take that list with a grain of salt. She compiled it based on "consistently bad reviews", without doing a statistical analysis on the number of models built or % of models recalled/repaired. We also know people are louder for the bad things and mostly silent when things go perfectly, so signaling out only bad reviews can lead to bias. But creating the list without any numerical analysis and just basing it on canvassing bad reviews means this list should probably be treated and believed like any other common clickbait article.
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This is a very good point. I once had a customer tell me they weren’t interested in a Montana because they talked to a mobile tech that said he works in more Montanas than anything else. After I explained that Montana has been the number one selling 5th wheel for 18 straight years and outsells the next 3 top competitors combined (at that time) so it makes sense that he works on more of them, they softened up, looked at them, fell in love, purchased and have been very happy with it. Anytime you’re going to compile a list of anything based on numbers of problems, the ratio or percentage of problems vs sales is a key factor.
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