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Old 06-08-2020, 06:47 PM   #1
Big 417
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Curt Q20 vs Q25 wheel

Ok, so asides from the obvious....does any one have actually experience or knowledge between the Q20 and Q25 5th wheel heads.

I am currently running the Q20 wheel on a Ram prep frame. Our fuzion 417 GVW is 19600. Those running Curt's will know they wobble around on the rubber cushions pretty good, also my morryde pin box soaks up a lot of the jarring..

I have been thinking about upgrading to the Q25 head, pops right in place on the same frame. But I can't find enough info to distinguish the heavier(at least I'm hoping) construction between the 2. All the pics look the same, curt doesn't really say. I did email them today, see what the office jockey knows.

And no, I don't want to spend the $2500 on the Anderson and never look back lol, this is a $600 purchase. The curt subframe is built pretty well in my opinion.

Cheers
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Old 06-11-2020, 07:12 AM   #2
LewisB
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Originally Posted by Big 417 View Post
...Those running Curt's will know they wobble around on the rubber cushions pretty good...Cheers
I tried a Curt 20K hitch when we bought our last Raptor (2008 3712TS) triple axle. The Curt hitch was so "wobbly" due to the rubber connections it felt like a 40' bumper pull TT without an equalizer hitch and sway control. With 2.5 degrees of lateral "play" at the hitch, that translated into 2.5 feet of uninhibited lateral motion at the center trailer axle. I finally returned it to the dealer who traded for a Reese hitch which works really well. See my attached assessment I submitted to the dealer and Curt. Curt 20K Hitch Assessment.pdf

My advice...don't spend good money over bad - dump the curt and get a better hitch while you can.
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Old 06-11-2020, 08:30 AM   #3
Big 417
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Yeah, I don't get a tonne of movement from the head. My rubber pin box slides about 1.5" back and forth. Other than that it's not bad. I just don't overly enjoy being close to the capacity
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Old 06-12-2020, 11:10 AM   #4
Jshopes81
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Originally Posted by Big 417 View Post
Yeah, I don't get a tonne of movement from the head. My rubber pin box slides about 1.5" back and forth. Other than that it's not bad. I just don't overly enjoy being close to the capacity
The capacity wont hurt you. If it says 20k they build in safety margin. On most lifting devices its 200%, pressure its 200% and drops depending on pressure. That 20k hitch is probably tested good to at least 30k
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Old 06-13-2020, 07:14 AM   #5
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The capacity wont hurt you. If it says 20k they build in safety margin. On most lifting devices its 200%, pressure its 200% and drops depending on pressure. That 20k hitch is probably tested good to at least 30k
I don't agree with this opinion at all. While you don't necessarily need to have a large amount of excess capacity, knowingly running any part of your rig at "over design capacity" can not be justified based on any "opinion" of safety ratings. Safety ratings on equipment are based on the manufacturer's engineering and exist for good reason. If you are knowingly over capacity and involved in any accident involving loss of life, you can bet the opposing counsel will make sure the court knows you knowingly chose to road an unsafe "overloaded" rig and you will be held responsible. JMHO
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Old 06-13-2020, 07:24 AM   #6
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I don't agree with this opinion at all. While you don't necessarily need to have a large amount of excess capacity, knowingly running any part of your rig at "over design capacity" can not be justified based on any "opinion" of safety ratings. Safety ratings on equipment are based on the manufacturer's engineering and exist for good reason. If you are knowingly over capacity and involved in any accident involving loss of life, you can bet the opposing counsel will make sure the court knows you knowingly chose to road an unsafe "overloaded" rig and you will be held responsible. JMHO
Dont agree with what opinion? The gvw on their fuzion is 19600. Under 20k. The hitch is rated for 20k plus safety margin. Even if theyre under hitch weight on a 25k hitch theyre still over gross. You just said yourself about running over design capacity.
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Old 06-13-2020, 09:02 AM   #7
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Dont agree with what opinion? The gvw on their fuzion is 19600. Under 20k. The hitch is rated for 20k plus safety margin. Even if theyre under hitch weight on a 25k hitch theyre still over gross. You just said yourself about running over design capacity.
You may be right for this particular case and trailer - it's up to Big417 to make that call for his rig.

I don't mean to start a disagreement, but your Post #4 response states; "...If it says 20k they build in safety margin. On most lifting devices its 200%, pressure its 200% and drops depending on pressure. That 20k hitch is probably tested good to at least 30k." There is no such thing as a "standardized engineering design safety margin". Your statement is not defensible from either a legal or engineering point of view and it not based on facts - it is your own opinion only.

The problem is that a new or uninitiated RV user could easily read your statement and conclude that operating his hitch at 150% of rated capacity is just fine. So how about we amend your response to read "In this case, as long as you operate your trailer at or below the specified GVWR which is less than 20K, your 20K hitch would be within specified design limits and you should be just fine."
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Old 06-13-2020, 09:23 AM   #8
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I have no idea how you read my statement to say that its ok to run it at 150% of its rating, i was referring to safety margin above the rating that something has to be able to function at and still work.

There most certainly are standardized engineering safety margins built into things like this. Different things will have different margins, but if theres a rating on something, theres a number or percentage that it has to perform to above that.
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Old 06-13-2020, 10:12 AM   #9
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...i was referring to safety margin above the rating that something has to be able to function at and still work.

There most certainly are standardized engineering safety margins built into things like this. Different things will have different margins, but if theres a rating on something, theres a number or percentage that it has to perform to above that.
Manufacturers never intend for users of their products to include all or a portion of the design safety margin as a part of the designed safe working limits for their products.

Your statement that "standardized engineering safety margins" means that "different things have different margins" speaks for itselt.

I will have no further posts on this issue.
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Old 06-13-2020, 10:15 AM   #10
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I am one of the uninitiated and didn't read having a safety margin meant going over the stated rating. That would be dumb even for an uninitiated like me. I also didn't get Big 417's remark "And no, I don't want to spend the $2500 on the Anderson". The Andersen Ultimate Rail Mount is under $600 on their website (not sure if he is gooseneck or raiL) but $2500? I bought the incredibly heavy steel version (due to being a cheapskate and lack of foresight) and it was a lot less than $600. I don't think they sell the steel version anymore... wish I had bought the aluminum.
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Old 06-14-2020, 04:33 AM   #11
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Manufacturers never intend for users of their products to include all or a portion of the design safety margin as a part of the designed safe working limits for their products.

Your statement that "standardized engineering safety margins" means that "different things have different margins" speaks for itselt.

I will have no further posts on this issue.
If you cant bother reading what youre responding to you shouldnt have bothered to respond to begin with.
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Old 06-17-2020, 01:37 PM   #12
Big 417
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I am one of the uninitiated and didn't read having a safety margin meant going over the stated rating. That would be dumb even for an uninitiated like me. I also didn't get Big 417's remark "And no, I don't want to spend the $2500 on the Anderson". The Andersen Ultimate Rail Mount is under $600 on their website (not sure if he is gooseneck or raiL) but $2500? I bought the incredibly heavy steel version (due to being a cheapskate and lack of foresight) and it was a lot less than $600. I don't think they sell the steel version anymore... wish I had bought the aluminum.
I may have estimated a little high at $2500 LOL. I am up in Canada, so I guarantee it'll be more than $600. I have never actually seen an Anderson up in this neck of the woods, or any dealers advertising them. I know they are good.

I paid $1550 cdn for my curt q20 ram prep hitch. Just to put it into perspective.
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Old 06-17-2020, 07:03 PM   #13
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I may have estimated a little high at $2500 LOL. I am up in Canada, so I guarantee it'll be more than $600. I have never actually seen an Anderson up in this neck of the woods, or any dealers advertising them. I know they are good.

I paid $1550 cdn for my curt q20 ram prep hitch. Just to put it into perspective.
I had an andersen. I have a b&w now. I like the b&w better, it moves the pin weight forward of the rear axle and is smoother going down the road. I just sold my andersen, maybe you can find someone in the states that would ship? I sold my aluminum ball mount for 500$, but i know i wouldnt have had a problem shipping and i know alot of other folks wouldnt either.
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