Towing an '08 Fuzion 362

jwv · 12-03-2011, 07:58 AM

thanks for the feedback. Im leaning towards an 08 fuzion 362. A 12,500# dry weight rig. Ill be at 13,700 with the atv's. I wanna pull this with a
2010 f250. Do ya think ill be ok ? May need airbags ? Ive been given advice to make sure the trailer has 16 " wheels. its a triple.

F250 owners and or 3/4 ton owners. Will I be ok on mountain passes ?
Will a 15.5k 5th wheel bog me down to 30/35 mph on a good grade ?

Festus2 · 12-03-2011, 08:31 AM

There are numerous threads and posts about "what can I tow with my "x" and they can be found by doing a forum search or by browsing through this particular forum on "Towing and Tow Vehicles".
Remember that air bags and other similar add-ons will not increase your towing capacity. They may help to level out the two units or to cushion the ride somewhat but don't be mislead into thinking that, by adding air bags, you will be able to tow a larger and heavier RV.

Paddler · 12-03-2011, 09:13 AM

Just doing a quick look, not really crunching the numbers since I don't have the specs for your truck....I'd guess you're looking at to much trailer for the F250. Max capacity on the 362 is 16500, and the hitch weight when loaded will probably be over 2500. That will probably put you over the weight limits of the truck. Again, just a guess.

A real quick check for you... open the truck's driver door and see what your max payload is. Subtract, pin weight 2500lbs, hitch 200lbs, 2 adults 350lbs, If you have 500 or more lbs remaining...you're good to go

jwv · 12-03-2011, 10:23 AM

max payload is 1983 so id be over. ill be traveling alot in the mountains.
Im probably best off with an 11,000 lb raptor . The 05 3512 raptor is 11k
and is the lightest tri-axle ive been able to find thatll support my 1300 lbs
of atvs in the garage.

Paddler · 12-03-2011, 12:29 PM

Keep a close eye on the pin weight as payload capacity is the weak point of 3/4 ton pickups. Having a payload under 2000lbs, minus the hitch, passengers and other extras you put in the truck, doesn't leave much for pin weight.

With your limited payload capacity, you might want to look at the Keystone Energy series bumper tow, toy haulers. A quick glance at the spec sheets on the Energy looks like they might handle your toys. Your truck is certainly a match for the Energys.

Good luck,

SteveC7010 · 12-03-2011, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwv

max payload is 1983 so id be over. ill be traveling alot in the mountains.
Im probably best off with an 11,000 lb raptor . The 05 3512 raptor is 11k
and is the lightest tri-axle ive been able to find thatll support my 1300 lbs
of atvs in the garage.

11K dry or GVWR? It matters, a lot.

jwv · 12-03-2011, 06:16 PM

cant find the gvwr for the trailer. the hitch weight is 2100#. My 2010
f250 crew cab diesel short bed has a payload of 2430#. dry weight 11k.
If I cant pull this safely id be very disappointed. my truck's gvwr is 10k.
rear axel is 6250 gvwr.

therink · 12-03-2011, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwv

thanks for the feedback. Im leaning towards an 08 fuzion 362. A 12,500# dry weight rig. Ill be at 13,700 with the atv's. I wanna pull this with a
2010 f250. Do ya think ill be ok ? May need airbags ? Ive been given advice to make sure the trailer has 16 " wheels. its a triple.

F250 owners and or 3/4 ton owners. Will I be ok on mountain passes ?
Will a 15.5k 5th wheel bog me down to 30/35 mph on a good grade ?

Based on the specs you provided of 12500 dry weight plus 1600 in atvs, you will still be loading at least 1500 in gear (that is a low estimate), your gross trailer weight will be at least 15600. I believe that the pin weight alone will exceed the payload rating of the F250.
Steve

SteveC7010 · 12-03-2011, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwv

cant find the gvwr for the trailer. the hitch weight is 2100#. My 2010
f250 crew cab diesel short bed has a payload of 2430#. dry weight 11k.
If I cant pull this safely id be very disappointed. my truck's gvwr is 10k.
rear axel is 6250 gvwr.

Let's see....

The pin weight is spec'd at 2,100# (although they are usually heavier.)

Your truck has a max payload of 2,430#.

That leaves 300# for you, the Mrs., the kids, the dog, and whatever gear you usually carry in the truck. Oh yeah, that slider fifth wheel hitch you'll need because it is a short bed is gonna weight a bit, too. Oops, forgot the full tank of diesel fuel, too.

Realistically, you are over max with just the rated pin weight and the people.

SteveC7010 · 12-03-2011, 07:55 PM

One other thing to consider in all this is the tires on the truck. Each tire has a max load rating. The max load of the vehicle is limited to the max load of the tires.

You'd have to pull a pressure/load chart for your particular tires to see what they are capable of carrying, although the max at 80 psi is usually stamped on the side of the tire. The lower the pressure, the lower the capacity. Very few of us run our trucks at a full 80 psi normally, although there are a few RVer's who remember to air up the rear tires when towing, especially with SRW TV 's.

The load carrying capacity of the tires is one of the main reasons that a 350 duallie has a much higher payload (up to nearly double) than a 350 or 250 SRW even though the frame, suspension, and drive line are pretty much identical in all other respects.

My general rule of thumb is that pin weights that are north of 2,000# pretty much necessitate a DRW TV.

LouSlugger · 12-03-2011, 08:05 PM

I have a 2007 362 and pull it with a 2009 F250 SD with 6.4 liter diesel. I haven't had it out west in the mountains but have been through Smokies and also have pulled it up a very steep secondary road in Kentucky (loaded with four dirt bikes, etc.) with no problems.

**JRTJH** · 12-03-2011, 08:27 PM

Another consideration is maintaining the pin weight/trailer weight ratio. Loading the aft of the trailer with 1300 lbs will "lever" significant weight off the pin. In order to maintain the proper ratio (15-25%) of weight on the pin, you may be forced to load the front of your trailer with more cargo (some people have found that they need to fill the black tank to get enough weight on the pin). Do a search for pin weight in toy haulers to get some ideas about what problems others have had in this area. And, if you do consider a bumper tow toy hauler, realize that tongue weight is even more critical than pin weight for proper towing/trailer control.

jwv · 12-04-2011, 05:17 AM

i was reading on another thread that when I load my atvs this reduces pin
weight. Also some trailers have the water tank behind the rear axel to reduce more pin weight when filled.

Paddler · 12-04-2011, 06:35 AM

As JRTJH pointed out; yes, loading your ATVs will reduce the pin weight. He also pointed out that you will still need to maintain a 15-25% pin weight for the trailer to tow properly. Assuming 14000 lbs loaded, 15% is 2100 lbs, add in hitch, passengers and you are 700-800 lbs over your truck's rated payload capacity. Will your Ford tow & stop the 362? Yes it will. Will you be over your trucks weight limits? Yes, you will.

Call your auto insurance company, ask them if they see any issues with towing a trailer with an overloaded truck....The final decision is yours, just be aware of the possible liability issues in the event something goes wrong.

jwv · 12-04-2011, 07:22 AM

without weighing in. To be properly balanced when loaded how much sag should I expect on my truck, if any ? 2 inches ok ?

SteveC7010 · 12-04-2011, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwv

without weighing in. To be properly balanced when loaded how much sag should I expect on my truck, if any ? 2 inches ok ?

There are too many variables to fairly answer your question.

As for how much sag is OK for your truck, again, we really can't answer that remotely. Every combination of TT and TV is different. How much is acceptable also depends on how your truck sits both loaded and unloaded.

My duallie squats a couple of inches, but the rear end sits rather high anyway. However, I am working with a pin weight between 1,600# and 2,000# and a payload capability that is over 4,500#. Counting me, the dog, the wife, and all the gear I keep in the truck, I still have nearly a ton of remaining spare capacity.

Festus2 · 12-04-2011, 08:06 AM

I am not sure how much your truck might or might not sag is the major concern here. Considering the TV you have and the model of toy hauler you are thinking about, it would appear that, no matter which way you slice it, you will be overloaded. The posters above have rightly pointed out that this combination of TV and RV will exceed the safe limitations. Even though it may not be your first choice, it might be prudent to consider a more substantial tow vehicle if you are set on one of those toy haulers. It may cost you more to do this upgrade, but you can't put a price on the safety of you and your family as well as others on the road in addition to the liability issues you could be faced with should you get into an accident.

jwv · 12-04-2011, 03:06 PM

Id love to see this demonstration.
f250 vs f350 vs f450.

Load em the same with a 15k tri axel 5th wheel.

0-60 time.
60-0 time.
Downhill cornering. I bet the differance would be minimal.

Festus2 · 12-04-2011, 04:33 PM

I'm sure there must be a demonstration like this on somewhere on Utube but I didn't realize the fastest time from 0-60 mph was all that important when pulling an RV. Personally, I'd rather be safe than swift.

**JRTJH** · 12-04-2011, 04:40 PM

You're probably right, towing accelleration, stopping distance (remember trailers have brakes when they function normally) and maybe even cornering under normal situations should be pretty much the same. After all, the 250 and 350 do share essentially the same transmission/engine/rear end gearing ratio. However (always an exception) as stated previously, with a 250, rear suspension and rear tires are the biggest critical limiting factors. If you take a 9500 lb GVW 250 with a gas engine, you can easily have a payload of 3500 lbs, but add the extra 1000 lbs of the diesel and you reduce the payload by that much weight. On the 350, the rear axle payload is nearly the same as the 250 (limited by tires) but when you add dual rear wheels, you can easily increase payload by more than a ton (upwards of 4500 lbs total). The 450 increases payload even more by increasing axle size, wheel/tire size, and changing to a stronger transmission.

I tow a fifth wheel with an F150. I'd suggest that I could "tow" (accellerate and decellerate) the toy hauler you're suggesting comparably to a gas engine F250 or F350. Where I'd have a significant problem is hitting a bump and blowing out both rear tires, breaking a spring or shearing an axle retaining ring. Although the 250 doesnt have the problem of semi floating axles, it would have the problems of under rated tires, overloaded axles, over loaded suspension. As far as "rear end squat", once the rear axle hits the stops, squat also stops (until the tires start "squatting". So to measure towing ability by how fast you get to 60MPH or to measure load by how far the "back end drops" are definitely NOT reliable ways to measure a truck's ability to tow or carry cargo.

I can't remember where I wrote it, but I recently compared the horsepower and torque of my 1993 F250 7.3 liter with my 2010 F150 5.4 liter gas engine (they are nearly the same). Given that data, then it essentially means that my F150 can most likely compare to that diesel in accelleration, decelleration times and as long as the trailer brakes work properly, in stopping distance. But, does that make it safe to tow nearly a ton more payload than the truck is rated to carry? No more than the F250 can safely tow a ton more cargo than it's rated to tow. Both trucks are capable of accellerating and decellerating (under normal conditions) adequately, but there's a volume of other considerations that cloud the safety of towing with an overloaded vehicle. There's a reason we have weigh stations and stiff fines for overloading even the biggest trucks on the highways. To put a family (and also anyone else who happens to travel the highways) in jeapordy by overloading a personal vehicle is just as hazardous to those who are unsuspecting on the highway as is an overloaded 18 wheeler. A F250 overloaded with cargo may not cause as much damage as the big rig, but if you're the one in the Ford Focus that get's run over, it doesn't really much matter how big the overloaded rig is.

I wouldn't suggest you go bear hunting with a 50 cal machine gun any more than I'd suggest you go with a 22 cal pistol. A 30/06 would be much more appropriate.

For towing your proposed trailer, I wouldn't suggest you get a 5 ton Freightliner any more than I'd suggest you try with a F250. A F350 dually would be much more appropriate. It's pretty much a matter of the right tool to do the job. Hope this makes sense to those who manage to read all the way to the end

You may also like: