Keystone Cougar Quality

[Techmark]

We bought a 2021 Cougar 24RDS in September 2020. I was curious what people think of the Keystone quality?

We’ve used our three times and are currently on a six week stay in the South. There are a lot of little things that are subpar in my opinion. I was thinking that $40K would get us a better product. Does anyone else have quality issues? Or did I get the Monday morning or Friday afternoon edition?

[chuckster57]

As a tech, I noticed after Covid shut everything down, when the RV industry started back up, all the manufacturers were way behind in building units. From entry level to high end I have seen a decline in quality as they try to meet quantity demands. If your somewhat mechanically inclined and have some basic tools, it’s easier to repair small stuff on your own.

[Brantel]

Welcome to the reality of owning an RV.

Bottom line is most of them are built with similar construction techniques, materials, components, and quality control. This seems to be true with units even 3 times as expensive as yours. Until you get up in the higher 6 figure units, they are very similar across all brands and models.

If you don't believe this, just look behind the wet bay's, electrical distribution panels, and into the underbelly's of the various brands and models. Almost guarantee you won't be able to notice any significant difference in the rats nest you will find of wiring, plumbing, rough cut holes, left over sawdust, trash, and other foreign material you will find in these areas. Scary when you see a converter or furnace box with half an inch of sawdust on top of it....

Some argue that COVID actually slowed production down because the manufacturers could not get components fast enough to keep up with their normal production rates. Your guess is as good as anyone's on what impact that had on build quality.

I agree that it is good to be handy and have some tools if you are going to own an RV. If you don't fix what you can yourself, your unit will spend more time at the service department than in your possession doing what you purchased it for.

[wiredgeorge]

A real good buddy of mine was a very senior executive with Ford then a major motor coach company and mentioned to me that high end and entry level campers had workers coming out of the same pool and these workers moved around a lot. He also mentioned that want ads had to state there was no drug testing in order to draw candidates. Most component suppliers are right there next to the OEMs in Elkhart but I suspect most of the parts for appliances and electronic components come from China and with all the trade and pandemic uncertainty, suspect that they are not running full bore cranking this stuff out. I use metric (Japanese Industrial Standard) hardware in my business and prices of JIS screws and other hardware (comes from China mostly) has gone through the roof.

[JRTJH]

Keystone, like any other RV manufacturer produces several "brands" in different "price levels"... All of those brands are produced in different "adjacent buildings" on the Keystone "campus" in Goshen. There isn't even a fence between the different brand lines. Cabinets are made in a "cabinet shop" at one end of the campus. One day the cabinet shop may be making door facings for Montana fifth wheels and the next day (or maybe that same day, after lunch) they're making door facings for Summerland (the cheaper line of Springdale) which is the entry level level of entry levels....

On any given day, if the Montana line is "caught up" or "on hold for parts" many of those workers are pulled to build Hideouts or Cougars or Alpines or ???? And when the Summerland line is down, guess where those "entry level craftsmen" are pulled to work.....

So, the same workers build Montana and Alpine brands that also build Summerland and Hideout brands.... It's not a "far stretch" to also believe that Cougar, Outback, Premier, Sprinter, Laredo and the rest of Keystone's brands are also "included in that workpool mix"...

That "workpool mix" considered, it's also not a far stretch to realize that the Lippert chassis, the Suburban furnace, the KeyTV system, the Thomas Payne recliner, the Phoenix faucet, the Sterling fiberglass shower surround, the Denver mattress, the FILON siding, the Kinrow windows are also "intermingled" after they enter the shipping and receiving plant and then sent to the various "brand buildings on campus"....

There's some difference in the lipstick, but the underlaying pig is essentially built the way Keystone builds their pigs....

If you move 3 blocks down the road, Dutchman does the same.

Move 3 blocks "up the road" and Grand Designs has a similar plant building their different brands....

Then move across the road and Lippert builds the chassis for all three, as does Alpha Systems for the TPO roof and the NOBEL FILON panels used in nearly all RV sidewalls that is manufactured, you guessed it, in Goshen, Indiana by Crane Composites......

If you haven't guessed it by now, the same workers who are "disgruntled at Keystone" walk across the street to Crane, down the road to Grand Designs, over the field to Lippert or around the corner to Dutchman......

If you think you're buying a "better RV" well, do your homework carefully. Chances are it's made by the same worker using the same products purchased from the same warehouse and delivered by the same forklift, regardless of which decals are on the outside of the trailer sidewall or which shape front cap is screwed onto the "trailer box".....

There's a reason why the "management team at Winnebago" broke away from that corporation to start Keystone Industries"... They even advertise it in their "beginning brochures" by saying, "Improved floorplans, bigger holding tanks and an RV designed for the RV owner" They seldom, if ever, break away and state that they're building a "better RV" just an "improved concept of what the RV owner really wants"....

[nellie1289]

Everything said here by everyone else is totally true. I had a keystone cougar that i owned for five years that had pretty good quality if you ask me. EVERY unit is going to have a 1-2 year shake out period. I just bought a 2021 Montana and haven't even used it yet and it was already in for warranty repairs. It takes a year or two for these things to "settle" if you ask me. I accepted this process when I unloaded a perfectly good operating 5 year old cougar for a new Montana. I will say on close inspection i do think the build quality on the Montana seemed better overall, I think they probably put more senior staff on those lines and the entry level ones get the greenhorns. But they all have issues. Just get it all fixed, keep an eye on things especially during your warranty period. Keep a punch list and then hand it to the dealer when you take it in for repairs. I would do them all at once as long as they are not interfering with your enjoyment of the unit. Good luck.

PS, I would of never gone back to keystone if I thought that they made inferior products.

[jsb5717]

Pretty much any manufacturing assembly line process will have attachment schedules that specify all of the various aspects of the assembly at every station along the way. How much glue, or sealant per application. How many nails, screws, or staples per component. All of that will typically be engineered into an acceptable build. How each and every one of those specs is met at each station by every worker can be a huge variable and relies heavily on a QC process that may or may not mandate a certain level of adherence to the spec.

Seems like most RV's have some level of quality issues. While most also seem to be generally trouble free, a bad apple can come out of any plant from any manufacturer. As stated, with the current level of demand for product the finished product quality can be a crap shoot. Our 2018 HC has be almost completely trouble-free. Others of the same era have had multiple issues.

Another piece of the puzzle is customer expectation. What level of quality is acceptable to each buyer? Or what is actually expected? That can be a huge variable as well. Sometimes expectations exceed reality.

Most experienced buyers expect that some repairs will be needed and most just do those themselves. That's just a simple reality to owning an RV.

Good luck with the Cougar. Generally they are considered to be a good brand with nice amenities in their price range.

[sourdough]

I won't restate everything that has been said but all the comments are on the money. As far as the "little" things you find wrong? Just thank your stars it's not the BIG things you are experiencing! Tools and basic carpentry, mechanical and electrical knowledge is a huge plus with RV ownership. The willingness to do some repairs on your own, despite being under warranty will help you a long way.

As far as Cougar quality and amenities; keep in mind that you bought the "1/2 ton series" Cougar and not the "luxury", full tilt Cougar. The 1/2 ton series is basically a Cougar floorplan with lots of corners cut to achieve weight reduction, ie; "1/2 ton". Those things DO make some of what you see seem subpar. Prior to buying this unit I looked extensively at the Cougar line and in fact had chosen a Cougar 315RLS as the "one". During that time I looked at a few 1/2 ton models back to back with the regular Cougar and there was a marked difference in the materials and overall "feel" of quality in them. I asked the sales manager about that and he told me the 1/2 ton line was just as I mentioned; made to be lighter with lighter, cheaper components.

In the end we bought the Montana High Country in my signature BUT I compared a lot of trailers (getting to your point of general Keystone quality). We looked at Forest Rivers (low end/high end), Gulfstream, Keystone, Jayco, Grand Design etc. We chose the Cougar over the GD Reflection after very close inspections of both. They both are similarly constructed, of the same materials, by basically the same people with the same methods. GD is highly respected in some circles but digging into it they have the same quality/repair issues as Keystone.

At the end of the day it's a mindset. Owning an RV means there are going to be failures so be prepared personally to repair them if possible. All RVs are basically put together the same way and most of them will have issues at some point. Every time that trailer (home/box on wheels...fully loaded) bounces and jumps down the highway every screw, staple, trim, shade etc. is subjected to an earthquake. We just have to take it in stride and have fun.

This week it's a brand new Cougar 1/2 ton sitting next to me having issues I've tried to help with. A couple of weeks ago it was a Vilano and before that a Solitude; the feeling of subpar and breakage/failures knows no class boundaries in the RV world....

[Northofu1]

I went from a 2015 Bullet Premier 26RBPR to a 2015 Cougar 29 RET Much happier. So far

[Techmark]

Thank you to everyone that replied to my thread. It does give me some piece of mind. Thanks again and stay safe.

[ewbldavis]

Agreed with all these.

I think for what the industry has become, the Cougar is a well-built unit for the price point. Sure - there are details you may have someone else doesn't, but overall the quality seems to be there after a full summer of seasonal use (meaning we used it ALOT).

[Blueswede]

We just bought a 2021 Cougar to replace a 2015 Hideout. We liked the HO, but after 7 years, it became more obvious as to the lack of quality in it. No storage, no windows to speak of, no privacy. When we saw the Cougar, it had everything we were ever looking for in a trailer and then some. The build quality at least in our minds was head and shoulders above the HO. No hinge screws showing on the cabinet doors and the hinges we a much nicer residential quality. Much better doors, lots of windows, just a better build all together. There are still some of the same items such as plastic bath faucets, which I will be replacing. But overall, a much better build. We took it out to AZ for its maiden voyage and had no problems whatsoever.
All in all, we are quite happy with it. Lots of room and lots of extras.

[nellie1289]

I have looked at a ton of units, searching for new rv's multiple times. In my opinion the cougar is the nicest thing out there for the money "VALUE"!

[Life-in-Him]

Our 2020 24sawe cougar is great. 23k miles in 10 months, 23 states. And yes there have been problems. LCI brakes, a hard spot in a drum, leaky seals causing grease to flow into brakes.
Some over tightened stripped screws. Put a dowel in hole & rescrew.

1" wheel clearance over tires. Instal 2x2 lift kit & morRyde suspension kits. Now 4 1/2". Nothing left of plastic OEM bushings & the bolts showing wear.

Some water leaks, roof @ nose & kitchen window. Dicor fixed.

Screen door handle broken misaligned.

Had more but far fewer than expected, & fewer than any home we've owned new or used.

This is our full time home even being 78 yrs old & I'm partially inop. 😱
If everything were perfect I'd need a 5 senses full checkup w/brain transplant. Probably needed anyway.

Back in the day: we didn't have this thing called internet & mass communicate as we have now. Built my 1st camper in 1962 & had only me to deal with.

I'm not completely pleased with our unit but I bought it, live in it & until something else more accommodating allows us to benefit the same or better, we'll live, fix, & enjoy what we have.

Besides where else can we find such informative & helpful folks mixed with frustrated grippers?