Keystone

[DKan6058]

Hello to all,

Looking to purchase a new trailer. Was looking at the Hideout, Sprinter or the Outback. Looking for some input pro's and con's of these models or the Keystone product in general.

Thanks

Dave

[JRTJH]

Hideout travel trailers are wooden frame trailers. Hideout fifth wheels are a "hybrid frame" (part aluminum/part wood). Sprinter and outback are aluminum frame trailers. Sprinter is a "wide body" (in some models).

Price "entry points": Hideout is an entry level trailer (cheaper with less expensive components)

Sprinter and outback are "mid price point". Depending on the dealer, time of year and "buyer demand" many RV trailers are sold at 30-40% off MSRP... When you get right down to it, there is no "manufacturer's sticker" so the MSRP is often "whatever the dealer establishes for the unit. So, they mark them up, then give you a "big discount" and convince you that you just got "the best deal this year on one of our RV's".....

Shop wisely, find a quality dealer, a workable floorplan and expecially important, a service department that is competitent and reliable.

[sourdough]

As John pointed out, shop and compare. MSRP from dealer to dealer can vary widely. The bottom line generally comes down pretty close. There may be a little variance if you try to deal on the same unit between east and west areas.

I could give you several personal examples but the most recent was the trailer I have now. Started dealing on it prior to the end of 2019. Made a deposit on it sometime in January. Signed papers first week of March.

I pulled this particular trailer up almost every day studying it to determine what I wanted to have done to it. It always came up with the msrp right up front. About February I was still in FL (bought in TX and had paid the deposit along with working out all the details of the deal). Pulled up the trailer and BOOM the msrp was suddenly 10k more than it had been! I almost flipped out. Called the GM and he said not to worry, they were just making "price adjustments" and my deal wasn't affected. I will say I was using bottom line figures obtained in FL to negotiate his price. So, do some shopping and comparing of bottom lines vs msrp.

[Northofu1]

You won't get two better pieces of advice than that.
Coupled with a 3/4 ton if you're still in the 8k GVWR range.

[travelin texans]

Match whatever rv you want to the truck you have, unless you plan to get more truck soon. If upgrading the truck soon, skip the 3/4 & go 1 ton so you're ready for the next rv upgrade.
Makes for a very poor rv towing experience if you get too much rv with too little truck. This seems to be the norm the past few months judging by the number of newbies on here looking for advice on towing their XX' trailer with their 1/2 ton truck or SUV, too many listening to the rv salesman.

[DKan6058]

I knew my truck would not do a whole lot. To be honest I thought it would do more then what it shows. But like they say go big or go home!! Lol. Looking at a 3500 on Tuesday!

[Bill-2020]

Originally Posted by sourdough

.... Pulled up the trailer and BOOM the msrp was suddenly 10k more than it had been! I almost flipped out. Called the GM and he said not to worry, they were just making "price adjustments" and my deal wasn't affected. I will say I was using bottom line figures obtained in FL to negotiate his price. So, do some shopping and comparing of bottom lines vs msrp.

Sounds almost like my experience except it didn't work out as well- ordered the 2020 1/2 Passport with the rear door through the only dealer in the area (yeah... CW ). Put down the required special order deposit, waited 4 weeks for build and delivery, delivery day came, PDI went well, sat down and showed the finance guy where one of their other dealerships had the exact same model already on the lot for $1000 less... I wanted a grand off the deal. Finance guy went and got the GM. GM said no way he can match it, even if it was the same company store. Had I not put down a grand for the deposit 4 weeks earlier I would have walked off and driven the 6 hours to the other CW. I did email the big guy (Marcus Lemonis) when one of those emails came in about "If you're not happy, I'm not happy. Contact me." Sent the details in an email. His "office" called me few days later, I discussed the issue I had with a nice lady. In the end they basically said there's nothing CW will do. And I replied over the phone that I'd never buy again.

So it's very important to be comfortable with your selling dealer, Dave. I should have thought twice and driven further but that $1000 off wasn't showing until 3 weeks after I ordered it. That gut feeling was there from the beginning and I should have listened more.

[DKan6058]

I hear ya, sometimes our mind out thinks our gut feelings and in the end, its aways our wallet that pays for it. Thanks for the advice though. It will re-enforce me to double think and sleep on it!!

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Bill-2020

Sounds almost like my experience except it didn't work out as well- ordered the 2020 1/2 Passport with the rear door through the only dealer in the area (yeah... CW ). Put down the required special order deposit, waited 4 weeks for build and delivery, delivery day came, PDI went well, sat down and showed the finance guy where one of their other dealerships had the exact same model already on the lot for $1000 less... I wanted a grand off the deal. Finance guy went and got the GM. GM said no way he can match it, even if it was the same company store. Had I not put down a grand for the deposit 4 weeks earlier I would have walked off and driven the 6 hours to the other CW. I did email the big guy (Marcus Lemonis) when one of those emails came in about "If you're not happy, I'm not happy. Contact me." Sent the details in an email. His "office" called me few days later, I discussed the issue I had with a nice lady. In the end they basically said there's nothing CW will do. And I replied over the phone that I'd never buy again.



So it's very important to be comfortable with your selling dealer, Dave. I should have thought twice and driven further but that $1000 off wasn't showing until 3 weeks after I ordered it. That gut feeling was there from the beginning and I should have listened more.

After my first year or so getting acclimated to CW and making them acclimate to me I've had no issues. In fact stellar results compared to the other dealers. But that took a tremendous amount of time doing what I do.

If you in fact ordered a unit from a dealer with an agreed deal, made a deposit upon reaching a deal then looked for a better deal and then hit up the selling dealer to match it is unacceptable. Getting upset about it is not right either. Look first. Research and deal first. Once agreed your are bound, and should be, to your agreement. Marcus (his office) was right to refuse your request.

CW had nothing to do with your failure to do due diligence IMO. Buying a unit 6 hours away vs buying one locally for a $1000 difference would be a show stopper for me in the first place. Sorry

[Bill-2020]

Originally Posted by sourdough

After my first year or so getting acclimated to CW and making them acclimate to me I've had no issues. In fact stellar results compared to the other dealers. But that took a tremendous amount of time doing what I do.

If you in fact ordered a unit from a dealer with an agreed deal, made a deposit upon reaching a deal then looked for a better deal and then hit up the selling dealer to match it is unacceptable. Getting upset about it is not right either. Look first. Research and deal first. Once agreed your are bound, and should be, to your agreement. Marcus (his office) was right to refuse your request.

CW had nothing to do with your failure to do due diligence IMO. Buying a unit 6 hours away vs buying one locally for a $1000 difference would be a show stopper for me in the first place. Sorry

My stance is this - The selling dealer was CW. The better priced same unit was also at CW, 6 hours away (we would have made it a shakedown trip driving that far). I feel that the GM knew he had me. There were many other poor dealer actions on this deal that I did not get into (too long winded) because this was not the subject of this post. Don't be sorry, we agree to disagree. After being treated the way I was treated after the deposit, I simply won't do business with them again. I expected better out of a major corporation. I'll take my money elsewhere. It's a simple as that. I'd be happy to PM on this if you're interested in the additional details, just drop me line.

[Bill-2020]

Originally Posted by DKan6058

I hear ya, sometimes our mind out thinks our gut feelings and in the end, its aways our wallet that pays for it. Thanks for the advice though. It will re-enforce me to double think and sleep on it!!

One of the most enjoyable things is going to look at them and all the options of the different units. We enjoy the RV shows just to window shop. But those haven't been going on since CV reared its ugly head.

Enjoy your hunt for the just right one!

Bill

[chuckster57]

As a tech that works on RV’s I can give you this advice. Spend some serious time in any unit your interested in. Open cabinets, look at the trim. Check the corners for squareness. DO NOT BUY any unit without putting hands AND EYES on it. Note the stock number or last 8 of the VIN if you don’t negotiate a deal right then.

Two units built one after the other can have significant quality differences. Make sure you verify everything is working BEFORE you sign, and that’s for any brand or model you choose.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Bill-2020

My stance is this - The selling dealer was CW. The better priced same unit was also at CW, 6 hours away (we would have made it a shakedown trip driving that far). I feel that the GM knew he had me. There were many other poor dealer actions on this deal that I did not get into (too long winded) because this was not the subject of this post. Don't be sorry, we agree to disagree. After being treated the way I was treated after the deposit, I simply won't do business with them again. I expected better out of a major corporation. I'll take my money elsewhere. It's a simple as that. I'd be happy to PM on this if you're interested in the additional details, just drop me line.

The reality is this; I make a deal; I shake your hand; it's done....the rest is irrelevant. Simple as that. I have no stake in what you do and I hope you are happy doing whatever that is.

[DKan6058]

I hear ya! I put interiors in corporate aircraft. We have some of the best quality in the interiors we put in. Plus I used to be in quality control and affectionately became known as the "prick".

[wiredgeorge]

One thing to consider.... The minute you buy a camper from a dealer and drive it off the lot you own a USED camper. The depreciation is huge. The advantage of a NEW camper is that it has the brand new camper smell and the dealer is on the hook to fix things. The dealer will often take your new camper to fix thing and keep it for months and you hear never ending complaints about dealer service here on this forum.



My personal feeling is a new camper, other than the smell, is a HUGE waste of money. Let someone else eat the depreciation. Get smart on what things can go wrong in a camper by studying the subject which you will have to learn anyway even if you buy a new camper. Find a private seller who is desperate to unload that camper that was an impulse buy and just be hurting from the payments. Use due dilligence and go over any prospective camper being sold and you will not regret saving the money you will end up learning how to make most common repairs yourself and avoid long wait times for some dealership shop to make small repairs.



You will also find that once you own any camper there will be MANY things you had wished you had considered with the floorplan, the amenities, the stuff that makes the trailer more your style. If you buy the WRONG trailer initially, a used trailer makes the resale a lot less painful. I own a 2002 and have made it mine and do all my own repairs/maintenance and quite frankly have less problems than many buying new trailers and I bet I can sell it quickly for what I paid for it and the only thing I would lose is the money spent upgrading and making it mine. Doubt we will be selling.

[DKan6058]

I learn this when I bought my last camper from a dealer (CW) when I took it in for warranty work. When I got it back from them with all issues supposedly fix. I found out very quickly that they'll lie to make a quick buck. None of the issues were properly fixed. In the end I had them over the barrel and to avoid any further retribution by me. I had them send me the parts I needed to fix the RV. Now everything works as advertised and I'm a happy camper.

[flybouy]

Bill I don't know what all you experienced but I have to make a couple of comments. When you gave the dealer a deposit you made an agreement ( a contract) to purchase a product for x amount. That dealer then entered a contract to purchase it from Keystone for x amount of dollars. Keystone could offer an incentive (price reduction) a week or even a day later but the deal is done on your order so the dealer still has to pay the price agreed up, just as you do.

The second factor here is the distance between dealerships. It's standard that retailers and chain restaurants have different pricing for different areas. I know this for a fact as I worked in both industries for many years. I worked in development dept (real estate & new construction) but sat thru more meetings where every dept had to report. From financial, to loss prevention to sales.

So depending on the area one location may have differing prices than another. Doesn't matter if it's McDonalds or WalMart. As a consumer if you live in an area that costs less you would not be happy if the cost was increased so that those living in a more expensive area could enjoy the same price. There are many reasons,, obviously NYC costs more than Tucson AZ. The costs of doing business varies.

I'm not defending CW or any other company. I just want any reader to understand 2 things here. One,, prices vary because the cost to do business varies greatly between locals. Two, a deal is a deal and it's the consumer's responsibility to do the due diligence BEFORE entering the agreement. Once a deal is signed the time for negotiations are over.

If you want to "back out" of the deal the (go back on your word) then you must be prepared to pay the penalty if it's stipulated in the contract. Typically the only way to cancel a contract without penalty is to prove some sort of deception or illegal dealing like not disclosing damage if asked, "bait and switch", "hidden" return or restocking fees, etc.

Again, this is not passing judgement on what Bill experienced but as general information for anyone reading this.

[travelin texans]

I agree, a deal is a deal!
This is not the big box hardware store or retail shop that promises to "price match any competitor".
Not to mention that if you did not walk into the one that was a $1000 cheaper are you 100% certain they were optioned exactly the same, dealers are sometimes not totally honest when advertising, the one you bought may have that much or in options.
You signed the deal now cussing the dealer????

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

I agree, a deal is a deal!
This is not the big box hardware store or retail shop that promises to "price match any competitor".
Not to mention that if you did not walk into the one that was a $1000 cheaper are you 100% certain they were optioned exactly the same, dealers are sometimes not totally honest when advertising, the one you bought may have that much or in options.
You signed the deal now cussing the dealer????

Even those "price match" guarantees typically have a bunch of disclaimers.

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by flybouy

Even those "price match" guarantees typically have a bunch of disclaimers.

Yep! Lowe's/HD both advertise this but by not selling the same brands as the other they've found a way around it, but still advertised.

To the OP, read the disclaimer at the bottom of the forum, there's NO ONE from Keystone monitoring this forum & definitely NO ONE from CW either & highly doubtful CW will go broke from your lack of patronage.
But you got to vent here!