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Old 07-04-2020, 07:30 AM   #41
sourdough
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Originally Posted by +Ruff Rider View Post
Is this a threat ?

I read your response and all I can do is shake my head.

I guess if you perceive stated facts about the possible repercussions from irresponsible internet posts (sage advice) - and you are guilty of those posts, yep, I would feel threatened.....by my own actions.
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Old 07-04-2020, 08:12 AM   #42
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Back to the OP, if they're still around?
The majority votes NO the 3/4 isn't enough truck with 1 vote for "I don't give a sh## about the numbers, the law or what anyone with experience says, tow what want, you'll be fine!".
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Old 07-04-2020, 08:35 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Jcholt7379 View Post
Our Anderson hitch is 35 lbs
GVWR for this 5th is 12,400
5th hitch is 1915
All of this is #14,350

#10,090 under...
It's only the wife and I...
We never pull with water and very little food.
Grocery shopping is always part of our long stop

So, can anyone answer my original question= would airbags add value to the ride?
It might be that we are still getting use to 5th or bumper pull
So back to your original question, hard to tell.
I have pushed or been over GVWR with most of my 3/4 ton TV, never used air bags, never had a bad ride or squat.
Our 2001 Ram 2500 was well over GVWR at 10,500# on the TV, at the time our 5er has a 2,700# pin, simple math will tell you the TV without 5er was 7,800#. Do you know what your TV weighs ready to hook up to the 5er? Just you and DW and not much else in the TV you might be very close to being within your numbers.

PS, ON EDIT: I got tired of worrying about a crash and law suits, now tow with a 2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW.
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Old 07-04-2020, 09:35 AM   #44
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Axle Weights Key

OP, this is a very intelligent group when it comes to TV weights Specs, trailer weight specs, and the like. I would take their advice, and I have, chew on it and make a decision as to what you feel is "I can sleep well at night" decision. The bottom line is axle weights........weigh, weigh, weigh..... if you are over axle weight, that is where you will be compromised if a court battle pursues. I'm from a family of state troopers, sheriff's, and son in a small town police force. Over 90 years of police experience and not one was able to recall 1, insurance not covering accident involved in weights (even in a death accident), 2, a ticket issued due to over weight (unless commercial and visually evident) 3, any attorney pursued lawsuit. I haven't seen any online proof or evidence to those facts either. What you do need is self confidence and awareness of all safety variables mentioned. Again, stay within the axle weights, beef up the vehicle where it meets those variables mentioned and you'll be fine. To your original question, yes.....get the airbags and enjoy a more comfortable ride...may not stop the chucking all the way but will level set TV.

Enjoy the rode and please be safe.....listen to these fellows in here they've been doing this a long time (no intent to insult on age...just relying on your wisdom.) But again, you and your family's decision.
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Old 07-04-2020, 09:42 AM   #45
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OP, this is a very intelligent group when it comes to TV weights Specs, trailer weight specs, and the like. I would take their advice, and I have, chew on it and make a decision as to what you feel is "I can sleep well at night" decision. The bottom line is axle weights........weigh, weigh, weigh..... if you are over axle weight, that is where you will be compromised if a court battle pursues. I'm from a family of state troopers, sheriff's, and son in a small town police force. Over 90 years of police experience and not one was able to recall 1, insurance not covering accident involved in weights (even in a death accident), 2, a ticket issued due to over weight (unless commercial and visually evident) 3, any attorney pursued lawsuit. I haven't seen any online proof or evidence to those facts either. What you do need is self confidence and awareness of all safety variables mentioned. Again, stay within the axle weights, beef up the vehicle where it meets those variables mentioned and you'll be fine. To your original question, yes.....get the airbags and enjoy a more comfortable ride...may not stop the chucking all the way but will level set TV.

Enjoy the rode and please be safe.....listen to these fellows in here they've been doing this a long time (no intent to insult on age...just relying on your wisdom.) But again, you and your family's decision.

This may be true for your family but I have personally seen a NM trooper weigh a pickup/rv combo and send the truck on its way without the trailer.
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Old 07-04-2020, 09:48 AM   #46
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Cousins, uncle, and son both added this to their comments and I also included: (unless commercial and visually evident).....probably should have said "and/or" . That truck you are mentioning was probable visually evident..... lights point to the sky with TV rear bumper dragging. I could see that for sure.
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Old 07-04-2020, 10:11 AM   #47
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Is that sort of like "object permanence" in infants? If they can't see it, it doesn't exist... Usually about age 3, they learn that even if Mom isn't visible in the room, she still exists and they aren't alone. That's about when they start unrolling the toilet paper from the roll and drop their favorite toy in the toilet because they "realize it isn't lost if not visible"...

In adults, if you can't see it, one "should" realize that it still exists. Believe it or not, even if you can't see "bugs swimming in that green pus" in your infected wound, bacteria is really there... And, for the doubters (sheesh) yes, Covid is real, even if you can't see it....

Same with civil lawsuits for damages that "aren't from tickets written by my brother in law"...

I was involved in an accident about 20 years ago in Las Vegas, on the strip. I was stopped at a red light, the light turned green, I was rear-ended. Clearly not my fault and I didn't receive a ticket, the guy that hit me got the ticket. Well about 6 months later, I was sued by him for medical costs involved in his injured knee. He sued me, even though it clearly was not my fault. It cost my insurance company $8,000 to settle out of court. Since I was with Allstate at the time, my rates went up due to the claim, even though I wasn't at fault. I was told by the Allstate legal team at corporate, that it was cheaper for them to settle out of court than to pay the legal expenses of defending me in court. They said, if I wanted to sign a release, I could defend myself in court, otherwise, they were settling the case the cheapest way possible "for them"... It cost me until I moved to State Farm, but I had an accident claim on my record for the next 7 or 8 years... "Thanks All State"

So, take it for what it's worth, LEO involvement is NOT required for someone that runs into your RV to find a means to extract money, pain and increased insurance rates from your "overweight RV".... YMMV and I'm in no way worried about whether you get sued or not, I know that if it happens to me again, I'll be as prepared as I can be, not to have to pay a nuisance lawsuit...
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Old 07-04-2020, 11:22 AM   #48
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OP, this is a very intelligent group when it comes to TV weights Specs, trailer weight specs, and the like. I would take their advice, and I have, chew on it and make a decision as to what you feel is "I can sleep well at night" decision. The bottom line is axle weights........weigh, weigh, weigh..... if you are over axle weight, that is where you will be compromised if a court battle pursues. I'm from a family of state troopers, sheriff's, and son in a small town police force. Over 90 years of police experience and not one was able to recall 1, insurance not covering accident involved in weights (even in a death accident), 2, a ticket issued due to over weight (unless commercial and visually evident) 3, any attorney pursued lawsuit. I haven't seen any online proof or evidence to those facts either. What you do need is self confidence and awareness of all safety variables mentioned. Again, stay within the axle weights, beef up the vehicle where it meets those variables mentioned and you'll be fine. To your original question, yes.....get the airbags and enjoy a more comfortable ride...may not stop the chucking all the way but will level set TV.

Enjoy the rode and please be safe.....listen to these fellows in here they've been doing this a long time (no intent to insult on age...just relying on your wisdom.) But again, you and your family's decision.
I'm on several other forums, besides this one and just last week on one of them, this type of discussion was taking place...the normal back and forth about being overloaded, how overloaded, whether it was over payload or axle, or whatever. One of the members is an attorney and this is one of his specialties.....civil cases involving accidents and percentages of fault based on overloaded vehicles such as trucks and trailers...including RVs. According to him, you don't have to be completely at fault....just some percentage of the overall fault and you can become liable for damages in the suit. Of course you percentage of fault, dramatically increases your percentage of liability and damages to be paid. I'm certainly not an attorney, but it certainly makes sense that there are probably hundreds, thousands, probably tens of thousands of them out there that make their living defending accident victims.
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Old 07-04-2020, 05:54 PM   #49
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Xrated is correct at least in Oregon, the cases many times came down with silly stuff like person A was 80% at fault and person B 20%.
Looking back clear to the 2000 plus/minus we has computer crimes people would would look up at types of stuff on what a person was posting. By the late 2000s I was taught how to get a a subpoena and get the exact person and where the computer was by address to help with solving crime. With basic information, a quick trip to the Grand Jury and all types of personal infor was found. We had volunteers looking daily at fish and wildlife forums for illegal activity, mostly being bragged about.
The accident reconstruction cops get a subpoena and or warrant to pull the vehicle computer. They normally go back to the factory and return with pages of data. They sometimes seize the vehicle and check anything that could or might be a factor for or against the crash.
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Old 07-04-2020, 06:00 PM   #50
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Is that sort of like "object permanence" in infants? If they can't see it, it doesn't exist... Usually about age 3, they learn that even if Mom isn't visible in the room, she still exists and they aren't alone. That's about when they start unrolling the toilet paper from the roll and drop their favorite toy in the toilet because they "realize it isn't lost if not visible"...

In adults, if you can't see it, one "should" realize that it still exists. Believe it or not, even if you can't see "bugs swimming in that green pus" in your infected wound, bacteria is really there... And, for the doubters (sheesh) yes, Covid is real, even if you can't see it....

Same with civil lawsuits for damages that "aren't from tickets written by my brother in law"...

I was involved in an accident about 20 years ago in Las Vegas, on the strip. I was stopped at a red light, the light turned green, I was rear-ended. Clearly not my fault and I didn't receive a ticket, the guy that hit me got the ticket. Well about 6 months later, I was sued by him for medical costs involved in his injured knee. He sued me, even though it clearly was not my fault. It cost my insurance company $8,000 to settle out of court. Since I was with Allstate at the time, my rates went up due to the claim, even though I wasn't at fault. I was told by the Allstate legal team at corporate, that it was cheaper for them to settle out of court than to pay the legal expenses of defending me in court. They said, if I wanted to sign a release, I could defend myself in court, otherwise, they were settling the case the cheapest way possible "for them"... It cost me until I moved to State Farm, but I had an accident claim on my record for the next 7 or 8 years... "Thanks All State"

So, take it for what it's worth, LEO involvement is NOT required for someone that runs into your RV to find a means to extract money, pain and increased insurance rates from your "overweight RV".... YMMV and I'm in no way worried about whether you get sued or not, I know that if it happens to me again, I'll be as prepared as I can be, not to have to pay a nuisance lawsuit...
This type of case happens every day just for the the reason that to a point it is just cheaper to settle than fight. The claimant gets some money and you pay for it.
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Old 07-04-2020, 08:03 PM   #51
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So back to your original question, hard to tell.
I have pushed or been over GVWR with most of my 3/4 ton TV, never used air bags, never had a bad ride or squat.
Our 2001 Ram 2500 was well over GVWR at 10,500# on the TV, at the time our 5er has a 2,700# pin, simple math will tell you the TV without 5er was 7,800#. Do you know what your TV weighs ready to hook up to the 5er? Just you and DW and not much else in the TV you might be very close to being within your numbers.

PS, ON EDIT: I got tired of worrying about a crash and law suits, now tow with a 2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW.
Quote:
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Again, stay within the axle weights, beef up the vehicle where it meets those variables mentioned and you'll be fine.. ...
No amount of "beefing up the vehicle" will increase any of the numbers, most will reduce the payload due to the weight of those items added to "beef" it up.
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Old 07-05-2020, 03:45 AM   #52
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I don't like getting into these kinds of discussions, but ...

- all F250s are NOT an F350 with a different badge
- an F350 has a 1/8" thicker rear axle shaft and a 4' vs 3.5" axle tube
- most F250s have a 2+1 rear spring. F350 starts at 3+1 rear spring (the +1 is the overload). If the F250 has the camper and/or 5er package it will have 3+1 6100 pound capacity springs along with 6000 pound fronts.
- a crew cab LB F250 diesel weighs in at about 8000 pounds
- Airlift or Firestone air bags will smooth out the loaded ride and help level the trck - trailer combo. I tow with 15-20 pounds pressure. Unloaded, those air bags can hammer your fillings out.
- Air bags do nothing to stop chucking. It's trailer weight distribution and hitch construction/slop.
- an Anderson weighs more then 35 pounds. You need to add in whatever is holding it in place in the truck bed.
- a rear sway bar helps. The OE Ford version with the Camper Special package is OK but a Helwig is better. I used a Helwig on a past F350 - it is huge in comparison.

What does all this means - if you haven't bought the truck, keep looking for an F350 with 5er tow package. You will most likely exceed the B pillar sticker capacity with virtually any 30 plus foot 5ers with most F250s. No, I'm not weight police since I tow over that sticker weight with an F250
Regardless of what or how different the 250 and 350 are they Both come with a 10,000 payload sticker. According to the geniuses here you must follow the stupid sticker. I go by the white sticker. It has all the legal information on that sticker. Tire pressure I go by what is written on the tires. You sir are correct on your information about the difference between the two trucks.
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Old 07-05-2020, 04:07 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by +Ruff Rider View Post
Regardless of what or how different the 250 and 350 are they Both come with a 10,000 payload sticker. According to the geniuses here you must follow the stupid sticker. I go by the white sticker. It has all the legal information on that sticker. Tire pressure I go by what is written on the tires. You sir are correct on your information about the difference between the two trucks.

Both an F250 and F350 come with 10,000 lb payload stickers? WOW...the hits just keep rolling. Thanks for your on-point insight Mr. Ruff. That is one of the least factual statements you have made to date. Have a great weekend and get out from under the bridge and get some sun!
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Old 07-05-2020, 05:15 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by +Ruff Rider View Post
Regardless of what or how different the 250 and 350 are they Both come with a 10,000 payload sticker. According to the geniuses here you must follow the stupid sticker. I go by the white sticker. It has all the legal information on that sticker. Tire pressure I go by what is written on the tires. You sir are correct on your information about the difference between the two trucks.
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Both an F250 and F350 come with 10,000 lb payload stickers? WOW...the hits just keep rolling. Thanks for your on-point insight Mr. Ruff. That is one of the least factual statements you have made to date. Have a great weekend and get out from under the bridge and get some sun!
I haven't looked lately, But up through at least 2018 Ford had an F350 with a de-rated GVWR of 10,000#.
There are some states that consider a truck over 10,000# GVWR a commercial vehicle, and charges far more registration fees because of the commercial status. Putting the buyer/owner in a real Catch22 position.
Ford should be ashamed of itself for talking out of both sides of it's mouth. One side giving a buyer a F350 that won't cost an arm and leg to register, and stating in it's owners manual and web site with the the statements "Do Not Exceed Any Weight Ratings"
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Old 07-05-2020, 05:17 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by +Ruff Rider View Post
Regardless of what or how different the 250 and 350 are they Both come with a 10,000 payload sticker. According to the geniuses here you must follow the stupid sticker. I go by the white sticker. It has all the legal information on that sticker. Tire pressure I go by what is written on the tires. You sir are correct on your information about the difference between the two trucks.
A more correct statement is that the F350 CAN be ordered with a 10,000 GVWR if someone wants that for licensing purposes. Actually the F350 SRW can have anywhere from 9900 to 12400 depending on configuration and choice. The F250 9900, 10000 or 10800. We are talking 2020 4x4s for both.

According to this document, Ford seems to have followed GM in having a 250 with over 10K GVWR. It would be nice to know their thinking behind that and how it is going to effect licensing. Maybe that is why GM dropped the 2500 and 3500 badges on most models. RAM seems to have stayed with in the traditional class 2/class 3 boundaries.

https://media.ford.com/content/dam/f...Tech-Specs.pdf

One needs to remember that no pickup will exceed the federal bridge weight laws, that are enforced at weigh stations across the nation. Talk to any hotshot hauler to learn more about that. What one can exceed is licensing requirements in states that license tonnage or when hauling commercially.

As pointed out civil court is a completely different issue. Think ambulance chasers.

I would also point out this already have a 250/2500 and what a larger trailer repeats it's self daily across internet forums far and wide. If a larger 5th wheel is in your future always purchase at least a 350/3500 SRW as a stating point.

Both RAM and Ford is recent years have changed the configuration differences between the 250/350 and 2500/3500 to be more than a spacer block and/or number of leafs in spring pack. I believe Ford now has a different(smaller) rear differential in the 250 vs the 350.
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Old 07-05-2020, 08:03 AM   #56
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We are pulling a 2019 Cougar 315RLS with Anderson Hitch.

Does anyone recommend adding airbags or airlift to smooth out the ride? We upgrade from a 27 ft bumper pull.

I am waiting for hip surgery, so; I have some downtime.
I tow with a 2016 Ram 3500 HO Cummins and tow a 2019 Grand Design Solitude 310 GK. The truck is still within it limitations as stated by the manufacturer. However, I added airbags to level out the tow vehicle and eliminate the squat. I usually inflate the bags to 40 lbs. But, to smooth out the ride? Good luck. Note to weight and tow police: I added the bags to level the truck, not increase capacity.
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Old 07-05-2020, 08:33 AM   #57
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I have a 350 pulling my 5er with an Anderson hitch and I added airbags to try and smooth out the ride a bit. When we would encounter some rough roads with consistent "ridges", the short bed tended to bounce more than I liked. I added Firestone airbags (easier to install in my opinion) and it has helped. I run about 25 lbs which seems to be just about right. Happy with them.
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Old 07-05-2020, 08:35 AM   #58
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i’ve been helped by many knowledgeable people here including
Sourdough and others so for what’s its worth....i also have a cougar 315rls which we love (2019), but i had bought a 2019 f250 the week before, and once i got everyone’s advice on payload, gvwr, pin weight etc i took the truck back to the dealer and swapped it for the 350. i dont have the air bags so cant comment on that but i use the b&w 20 k manual slider hitch, and must say the combo is excellent. very little chucking, nose maybe 1 inch high and pulls great (diesel 4x4). so like others have suggested here i would really check your capacities vs realistic loads and think you will find a 350 will help avoid liability should you have an unfortunate accident.
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Old 07-05-2020, 10:24 AM   #59
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We are pulling a 2019 Cougar 315RLS with Anderson Hitch.

Does anyone recommend adding airbags or airlift to smooth out the ride? We upgrade from a 27 ft bumper pull.

I am waiting for hip surgery, so; I have some downtime.
Never needed bags on my TV, currently carrying a 2,800# pin on a 2016 Ram 3500 DRW rear axle is 7,200# loaded.
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Old 07-05-2020, 10:41 AM   #60
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I have a 2013 F250 /4dr / short bed. I pull a fifth wheel and have installed air bags for that very reason. I run a little over 20 psi in the bags and the ride is much smoother. I did not install them to increase payload capacity, I did so to help with the ride. Very satisfied with them.
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