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Old 02-05-2015, 04:40 AM   #21
Javi
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Originally Posted by pawpaw View Post
It's hard to find a F-350 DRW around here with a 3.73 rear...most have the 4.30's. 2015's are listing in the mid 60's for a well equipped Lariat 4x4. Looking for a previously enjoyed one that's 2 or 3 yrs old that's not beat up...lot of them have been used for hot shot truck's or for farm use down here.
I got over having to have all the gewgaws on a truck a long time ago. Butt warmers and leather seats ain't worth $20K to me.

You can get a well equipped XL dually, CC, diesel F350 for just under $40K if you look around. It won't have leather and a butt warmer but it will have all the necessary stuff like power windows and door locks, mirrors, brake controller, 5th wheel prep package, tilt steering, and CD player..
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Old 02-05-2015, 05:02 AM   #22
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It's hard to find a F-350 DRW around here with a 3.73 rear...most have the 4.30's. 2015's are listing in the mid 60's for a well equipped Lariat 4x4. Looking for a previously enjoyed one that's 2 or 3 yrs old that's not beat up...lot of them have been used for hot shot truck's or for farm use down here.

Exactly, I looked at used trucks for a couple of months back when I bought my new F-250. Insane resale values and the hotshot business around here is crazy and I did not want one of those trucks. I gave up and bought new, did the same last week when I traded my F-250.

Ford has some good deals on the 2015 Super Duties right now. I got my 2015 F-450 $11,000 off MSRP and I got $34,000 for my 2011 F-250 which I was pretty happy with. F-250 had 72,000 miles, tires about 75% worn, brakes needing replaced next service, along with coolant flush due next service. I figured if I was going to trade I'd better do it now, otherwise I was going to spend another $2,000 minimum on the truck and not get any more money for it.
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Old 02-05-2015, 05:13 AM   #23
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Most F250's have a payload of 2500 - 2800 pounds depending on accessories and luxuries added at the factory. Most F350 SRW crew cab short bed (the popular model) trucks list a payload of 2700 - 3200 pounds.

As pawpaw said, you really don't gain that much with a F350 SRW. GVW increases from 10000 to 11500 (in most models) but the truck weight goes up by several hundred pounds which reduces the gain substantially. The 8' bed is available on the F250, F350 SRW and the F350 DRW.
My 350 has a payload of just over 3,800 and the few 250's they had on the lot had payloads of 3,200. Mine is a SRW.
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Old 02-05-2015, 05:53 AM   #24
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Here is my $.02 worth.....As you can see by my sig I pulled my 342 (similar in size and weight to 371) with a SRW Ram 3500 4.10 with bags. Truck pulled fine and stopped fine with exhaust brake. However, I felt and knew the truck was overloaded so upgraded to F350 DRW. I have seen all the posts regarding DRW is the best etc, etc......and now I know how true those posts are. It is night and day difference with a unit of this size and weight.

FWIW the DRW is my daily driver and I drive 25-30k per year. Took me a month or so to get used to it, but now it is second nature. My wife feels comfortable driving it as well.
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Old 02-05-2015, 06:12 AM   #25
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My 350 has a payload of just over 3,800 and the few 250's they had on the lot had payloads of 3,200. Mine is a SRW.
Gary,

Your truck, like mine is a gas model. The 6.2L gas engine weighs about 500 pounds less than a diesel. I did fail to state in my post that I was discussing diesel engine tow vehicles, but the entire post has been directed toward that point of view. If you had elected a diesel engine, your payload would have dropped approximately 500 pounds. If you note your maximum trailer weight, it is 12,100 pounds, with the diesel, that goes up to 15,900 in the same model/chassis.

Here is one "recent model" Super Duty F250 CC payload sticker posted by a member. Another member stated that his F350 SRW barely has 3000 pounds of payload remaining with a full fuel tank and his passenger/cargo load.

http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/att...6&d=1374164580

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Here is my $.02 worth.....As you can see by my sig I pulled my 342 (similar in size and weight to 371) with a SRW Ram 3500 4.10 with bags. Truck pulled fine and stopped fine with exhaust brake. However, I felt and knew the truck was overloaded so upgraded to F350 DRW. I have seen all the posts regarding DRW is the best etc, etc......and now I know how true those posts are. It is night and day difference with a unit of this size and weight.
FWIW the DRW is my daily driver and I drive 25-30k per year. Took me a month or so to get used to it, but now it is second nature. My wife feels comfortable driving it as well.
The part of RVdawg's post that is in red is so true. All of us, (well, except for the fortune tellers among us) simply don't know what we don't know (so to speak). Like the "first time RV buyer with the under-rated tow vehicle. Driving it off the lot, he quickly learns that what he is "experiencing" in towability is "normal"..... so, to him, with nothing to compare, he will undoubtedly say, "My rig tows great" even if it is the "most unstable rig to leave the dealer's lot that day or that week". We simply don't know what we haven't yet experienced. We can "read about it on a forum" all day long, but until it 'sits us in the driver's seat" we can't compare "stable towing" to what we "think" is stable towing.

I experienced the same thing with my Springdale fifth wheel. Towing it behind my F150, I felt I had a "stable, good towing rig". Once I had the opportunity to hitch that trailer to my F250, I knew I'd been "fooling myself" about how great it towed. I experienced much more stable towing, better handling, better "towability" than I thought was possible. Reading through the posts on this forum, I have read post after post of members who have upgraded their tow vehicle and without exception, they all say the same thing. Yet we still have members with the question, "Can my truck tow this trailer?" and we still have people with their "one rig experience" who say, "I'm doing it and it tows just fine." Not being critical, but I have to ask myself, "Compared to what?" RVdawg, like myself and many others who have upgraded have the "luxury" of comparing previous tow vehicle performance to current tow vehicle performance. The comments he makes, "It is night and day difference with a unit of this size and weight." come from having been in the driver's seat of both vehicles. That's an honest and factual comparison, not a "speculation".....
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Old 02-05-2015, 06:14 AM   #26
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I've yet to meet or hear one person that switched to a DRW truck regret it and every single person told me if you pull your trailer with a DRW truck you'll never go back to a SRW.

I'll never forget a couple years ago when an F-250 pulls in to a motocross race and parks in the spot next to me. It was pulling the largest toy hauler I have ever seen to this date, unbelievable. Custom ordered and built, full body paint, thing was insane. I know it was at least 43 feet long, maybe 45. He had a fairly large Razor and several dirt bikes in the garage. An older guy I knew walked over to the owner and asked him how the F-250 pulled that toy hauler and the owner said great, why? The older guy told him he was full of crap and basically he was an idiot for pulling a $100,000 plus toy hauler with an F-250. It was an older one also so I know the tow capacity was even less than the new ones. It was pretty funny and the guy seemed clueless.
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Old 02-05-2015, 06:50 AM   #27
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Hi folks, first post here. Wife and I fell in love with a Fuzion 371 at our local dealer so I'm looking more into it. As it turns out some friends in California have one, and they say they pull it with an F250. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that dang near impossible? I see the pin weight on the 371 is ~3000lbs which I believe is significantly higher than what an F250 is rated for.

What do most folks typically use to pull a 371? I was thinking a 3500-class pickup, but now I'm wondering if I need to consider going with a dually?


Pg_rider, I am here in Colorado too and have a 371. I pull it with a 12 F350 Dually with the 6.7. The pin is heavy on this rig and once you fill your basement storage in the front it gets heavier. I would not consider anything but a dually for this rig. The stability pulling in the mountains is a very reassuring thing.
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Old 02-05-2015, 08:07 AM   #28
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Gary,



Your truck, like mine is a gas model. The 6.2L gas engine weighs about 500 pounds less than a diesel. I did fail to state in my post that I was discussing diesel engine tow vehicles, but the entire post has been directed toward that point of view. If you had elected a diesel engine, your payload would have dropped approximately 500 pounds. If you note your maximum trailer weight, it is 12,100 pounds, with the diesel, that goes up to 15,900 in the same model/chassis.



Here is one "recent model" Super Duty F250 CC payload sticker posted by a member. Another member stated that his F350 SRW barely has 3000 pounds of payload remaining with a full fuel tank and his passenger/cargo load.



http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/att...6&d=1374164580







The part of RVdawg's post that is in red is so true. All of us, (well, except for the fortune tellers among us) simply don't know what we don't know (so to speak). Like the "first time RV buyer with the under-rated tow vehicle. Driving it off the lot, he quickly learns that what he is "experiencing" in towability is "normal"..... so, to him, with nothing to compare, he will undoubtedly say, "My rig tows great" even if it is the "most unstable rig to leave the dealer's lot that day or that week". We simply don't know what we haven't yet experienced. We can "read about it on a forum" all day long, but until it 'sits us in the driver's seat" we can't compare "stable towing" to what we "think" is stable towing.



I experienced the same thing with my Springdale fifth wheel. Towing it behind my F150, I felt I had a "stable, good towing rig". Once I had the opportunity to hitch that trailer to my F250, I knew I'd been "fooling myself" about how great it towed. I experienced much more stable towing, better handling, better "towability" than I thought was possible. Reading through the posts on this forum, I have read post after post of members who have upgraded their tow vehicle and without exception, they all say the same thing. Yet we still have members with the question, "Can my truck tow this trailer?" and we still have people with their "one rig experience" who say, "I'm doing it and it tows just fine." Not being critical, but I have to ask myself, "Compared to what?" RVdawg, like myself and many others who have upgraded have the "luxury" of comparing previous tow vehicle performance to current tow vehicle performance. The comments he makes, "It is night and day difference with a unit of this size and weight." come from having been in the driver's seat of both vehicles. That's an honest and factual comparison, not a "speculation".....

JRTJH this an the other post has to be one of the best most thought out posts ever. Very honest and true. Hopefully people will heed the advice and better prepare themselves. It's so true that the more truck makes a difference in towing experience.


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Old 02-05-2015, 10:31 AM   #29
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I got over having to have all the gewgaws on a truck a long time ago. Butt warmers and leather seats ain't worth $20K to me.

You can get a well equipped XL dually, CC, diesel F350 for just under $40K if you look around. It won't have leather and a butt warmer but it will have all the necessary stuff like power windows and door locks, mirrors, brake controller, 5th wheel prep package, tilt steering, and CD player..
You're absolutely correct Javi. Same engine and tranny in the XL as the King Ranch but without all the bell's and whistles! If I can find a nice XL or XLT with the 6.7 I may go that route. Even in the country where I'm at all the DRW truck's are the high end ones. Rubber floors and vinyl or cloth seats don't bother me!!
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Old 02-05-2015, 10:38 AM   #30
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Exactly, I looked at used trucks for a couple of months back when I bought my new F-250. Insane resale values and the hotshot business around here is crazy and I did not want one of those trucks. I gave up and bought new, did the same last week when I traded my F-250.

Ford has some good deals on the 2015 Super Duties right now. I got my 2015 F-450 $11,000 off MSRP and I got $34,000 for my 2011 F-250 which I was pretty happy with. F-250 had 72,000 miles, tires about 75% worn, brakes needing replaced next service, along with coolant flush due next service. I figured if I was going to trade I'd better do it now, otherwise I was going to spend another $2,000 minimum on the truck and not get any more money for it.
What kind of fuel mileage do you get around town with the 450...I'm guessing you have the 4.30's and is it a 4x4. Empty around town I'm guessing 12-14 mpg...hwy around 16-17?
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Old 02-05-2015, 11:09 AM   #31
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Thank you all for the thoughtful and comprehensive responses! And as expected, they cover the entire spectrum of opinion!

I have no question that a DRW truck is the ideal solution. However, I just don't see that fitting into my plans due to practicality (daily driver, fitting in the garage, etc) and cost of ownership. So, that means either stepping down to a considerably smaller toyhauler, or sticking with something like the 371 and going with a 3500-class SRW truck. And of course, nobody wants to downgrade to a lesser camper...

FWIW I'm currently pulling a trailer that is very close to my truck's limits (I have a Ridgeline -- don't laugh). I have to say, after three years of towing all over the Rockies, I've had not one regret. Stability is incredible even in the wind, braking is strong, engine and suspension are still going strong at 110,000 miles... I only every think about the limits when I'm pulling up Monarch Pass and dropping down to ~35mph. lol

So perhaps I have a skewed perspective but I probably tend to lean towards the "just enough" truck mentality. That said, I don't think a 2500-class truck is the best option for me which is why I'm primarily looking at 3500s. Can anyone state what the 3500 buys you over the 2500? Same engine obviously, but what about brakes? Rear suspension I believe is slightly beefier if I recall correctly, but what does that do for the tow/payload ratings?
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Old 02-05-2015, 11:32 AM   #32
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pg_rider --

Your question about the 250 vs 350 has been previously discussed here at great lengths.

I would recommend that you go to this link to find a thread started by Povo back in October -- it goes on for 7 pages.

http://keystonerv.org/forums/showthr...ight=F250+F350

You might just find the answer to your question in this thread and the 7 pages of posts that follow. The comments and recommendations made back in October are probably the same as what would appear on the forum today so there wouldn't be much in the way of any new information.
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Old 02-05-2015, 12:09 PM   #33
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What kind of fuel mileage do you get around town with the 450...I'm guessing you have the 4.30's and is it a 4x4. Empty around town I'm guessing 12-14 mpg...hwy around 16-17?
I haven't had it long enough to find out yet but I'm sure it won't be as good as my F250. I reset the computer yesterday coming back from the RV show in Houston and averaged 19 on the way home. I drive mostly from my house to the Houston airport and averaged 19-20 mph consistently in my F250. I go back to work Monday so will get a good idea next week on gas mileage as I'll be driving it daily and same route I've done a thousand times. The 450 does have the 4.3 gearing. Weird part is it rides much better than my F250 which had air bags and ruined the ride when I had them installed.
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Old 02-05-2015, 06:56 PM   #34
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the current lineup of newer SRW 3500 trucks have a good amount of payload. I have a 2014 Ram 3500 Laramie SRW with every option available and my payload is 4074lbs. That is with a megacab also...the crew cabs have a bit more. I ordered this truck for an "average size hauler)...38ft...with max gvwr of 16500 and a wet and ready to camp pin weight of 3000-3300lbs give or take...all that being said, the Fuzion's tend to be a bit heavier on the pin than other haulers and I would not tow the 371 with my truck.


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Old 02-06-2015, 12:59 PM   #35
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Well it look's like the wife booked 3 night's for us at the Grand Isle State Park next weekend. Guess they're not as interested in the Mardi Gras parades as I thought! Only 60 miles away so it's a short little ride and right on the Gulf. We'll give the F-250 a little workout in the process.
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Old 02-06-2015, 01:07 PM   #36
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I haven't had it long enough to find out yet but I'm sure it won't be as good as my F250. I reset the computer yesterday coming back from the RV show in Houston and averaged 19 on the way home. I drive mostly from my house to the Houston airport and averaged 19-20 mph consistently in my F250. I go back to work Monday so will get a good idea next week on gas mileage as I'll be driving it daily and same route I've done a thousand times. The 450 does have the 4.3 gearing. Weird part is it rides much better than my F250 which had air bags and ruined the ride when I had them installed.
Good to know the 450 rides fairly smooth empty. Son in law has the airlift bags on his 250 and it rides smooth to me, so it surprises me that your's rode rough.
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Old 02-06-2015, 05:18 PM   #37
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Good to know the 450 rides fairly smooth empty. Son in law has the airlift bags on his 250 and it rides smooth to me, so it surprises me that your's rode rough.
Same here, I never figured it out. It was fine driving down the interstate but if you hit a bump it was terrible. Just driving through a parking lot and rolling over a speed bump would about toss your head to the ceiling. I'm not sure they didn't install something wrong, everyone told me it should ride smoother but that was not the case at all. It was fine pulling the trailer, just rode like crap empty.
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Old 02-07-2015, 11:40 AM   #38
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I still don't understand the discussion whether a certain size truck can pull this or that. The key metric is always payload capacity. A 250-350 srw simply does not allow for the payload of most modern 38ft plus toy hauler 3000-3500lbs typically. With Gas, passenger, hitch, anything else, you will legally be exceeding the trucks payload. Just check ford or dodge specs. You can absolutely toy regardless, but if you have any trouble you will be 100% liable. It is straight math.

When I loaded the 342 on to my new Ford 450, the suspension dropped significantly. I ended up putting on wireless airbags to level/adjust the ride.

When I was buying my 342 I watched a guy leave the rv dealer in a new ford 250 towing a fuzion 395 with the bed pinned to the bumper stops (meaning no suspension left). Sure, he can make it work, but it will be a interesting discussion in a court room determining liability if an accident happens.
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Old 02-07-2015, 02:57 PM   #39
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I pulled a Fuzion 322 with my F-250 and that's only a 35 foot toy hauler, pin weight around 2800 if I recall. I also installed airbags to keep it level and it didn't sag much at all, maybe and inch or two. The first time I realized for sure I wanted more truck was on the way to a motocross race with just me and my son in the truck. Nice wide highway and I was running about 60 and the road evidently had some dips in it. My rear suspension was bottoming out big time and I got in to an oscillation that got my attention real quick. Luckily it stopped but lasted for several seconds but scared the crap out of me. That only happened one time but one time was enough. Otherwise the F-250 pulled the 322 great but I never was impressed with the brakes on the F-250.

I'll try and find the weights from the one time I had it weighed an post them to give people an idea. The F-250 has zero business pulling anything over 37-38 feet and that's pushing it. Paperwork I have with my Fuzion 322 shows hitch weight of 2445 though I think I read somewhere else it's more than that which may be more like the number I quoted above. Maybe the difference being between the 322 and the 322 Touring Edition which I have. Empty weight of 11,870, cargo capacity of 4165. The 2011 F-250 towing capacity is 14,400 with a Rear GAWR of 6100 pounds and GVWR of 10,000. The 2011 F-250 is 1600 pounds over just on the tow capacity if the toy hauler is full. The 2015 F-250 is still over by 900 pounds and this is not a big toy hauler.

The 2015 F-250 tow capacity went up to 15,100 and the F-350 SRW is 15,700. The 2015 F-350 DRW is around 24,000 pounds, big difference. The 2015 F-450 has a GVWR 14,000 and Rear GAWR 9100 . The F-450 has a tow capacity of 31,200 but limited to 26,500 for 5th wheel towing due to max capacity of the 5th wheel hitch.
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Old 02-08-2015, 09:05 PM   #40
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I pulled my 371 over 2000 miles last year on the west coast, mostly fully loaded somewhere a bit north of 15000 lbs. If all the roads were smooth and flat there wouldn't be any problems. Unfortunately they all are not. This kind of load requires a great deal of responsibility.

Due to this forum and my concern for the safety of myself as well as others we are going to update to a DRW. Headed for Kellogg Idaho tomorrow.
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