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Old 09-06-2021, 01:32 PM   #1
IggyD
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Dead space?!

I recently found a small flaw that lead to another discovery. In my outdoor “kitchen” I noticed the fridge will thaw and leak water into the cabinet when the trailer is in motion (not connected to shore power). I thought I could add a switch to the outlet or run a 12v line so I can replace the fridge with my Dometic CFX instead.

I pulled out the fridge and found all these goodies.

Mice or Monday/Friday assembly work?



I also didn’t know RV outlets were this basic with the wires just pressed in.



The next thing I noticed is how flimsy the wall with the outlet is. It is held down on two diagonal corners so the top rear just pivots free.



The most surprising though was all dead space to the right of the stove. There’s a good amount of room there. The red lines show about how much room there is. The arrow shows a storage space under the lower bunk bed inside.





I’m trying to get ideas on how to utilize those space. I would like another outside accessible faucet to wash dishes or spray down on this side and rear of the camper. The water heater is behind wall to the rear of the outside fridge, and I could tap into both cold and hot lines. It seems like there is room for more than that so I’m open to ideas.
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Old 09-06-2021, 02:04 PM   #2
chuckster57
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Construction debris is very common in spaces that are not open without removing stuff. Speed is key on the assembly line so sockets that don’t require any securing of wires and only having to get 2 ears to grab helps, every day work.
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Old 09-06-2021, 02:13 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by chuckster57 View Post
Construction debris is very common in spaces that are not open without removing stuff. Speed is key on the assembly line so sockets that don’t require any securing of wires and only having to get 2 ears to grab helps, every day work.
I figured that much, especially considering what you are buying for the price. Attention to detail is second to attention to time and materials.

The dead space though is something surprising considering space is a premium on these trailers.
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Old 09-06-2021, 02:14 PM   #4
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Well unless you removed it, that basic RV outlet is missing the back cover. You now have electrically HOT, yes in a space not easily accessible but not complete.
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Old 09-06-2021, 02:17 PM   #5
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Iggy, probably every outlet in your house is pressed in with less contact than the outlet you're looking at here.
And I believe that is construction trash.....not uncommon.
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Old 09-06-2021, 02:30 PM   #6
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Well unless you removed it, that basic RV outlet is missing the back cover. You now have electrically HOT, yes in a space not easily accessible but not complete.
That’s exactly how I found it. I’m new to RV’s so I didn’t know these existed.
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Old 09-06-2021, 02:37 PM   #7
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Iggy, probably every outlet in your house is pressed in with less contact than the outlet you're looking at here.
And I believe that is construction trash.....not uncommon.
Now that you mention it. The ones in my home (I remodeled and replaced all the electrical) stripped about 3/4”, inserted into a hole and then held in by a screw. Considering speed is a factor with assembly and theres not really a focus on the construction trash, making sure multiple screws are tight on hot wires requires more attention then just pressing wires into the receptacle.
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Old 09-06-2021, 02:47 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by IggyD View Post
Now that you mention it. The ones in my home (I remodeled and replaced all the electrical) stripped about 3/4”, inserted into a hole and then held in by a screw. Considering speed is a factor with assembly and theres not really a focus on the construction trash, making sure multiple screws are tight on hot wires requires more attention then just pressing wires into the receptacle.
Typically a residential outlet with speed connectors (strip a wire and stick it in hole) the screws DO NOT hold the wire when the speed connecyor is used. The screw holds the wire if the screw is first loosend, then the wire is placed under the screw head then the screw is tightened down.
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Old 09-06-2021, 04:16 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by IggyD View Post
Now that you mention it. The ones in my home (I remodeled and replaced all the electrical) stripped about 3/4”, inserted into a hole and then held in by a screw. Considering speed is a factor with assembly and theres not really a focus on the construction trash, making sure multiple screws are tight on hot wires requires more attention then just pressing wires into the receptacle.
If you lived in a manufactured home (like a doublewide), all of your receptacles and light switches would be this type. These components have been used for well over 50 years in millions of homes. They save depth and don't require the installation of boxes. In an RV, they save weight and installation time. But yeah, they are supposed to have a plastic shell on the back, did you take yours off?

I can't really tell from some of these photos what I'm seeing. If the first photo is loose sawdust that doesn't look like it's arisen from the wood surface itself (water damage), it's probably just construction debris that wasn't cleaned out. (Really exciting to find in your furnace cavity, plugs up the sail switch no end.)

As far as the "spare" space, before you use anything, give a thought as to whether any of the adjacent items need ventilation airflow. If so, that may be why the space is there.
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Old 09-06-2021, 09:15 PM   #10
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If you lived in a manufactured home (like a doublewide), all of your receptacles and light switches would be this type. These components have been used for well over 50 years in millions of homes. They save depth and don't require the installation of boxes. In an RV, they save weight and installation time. But yeah, they are supposed to have a plastic shell on the back, did you take yours off?

I can't really tell from some of these photos what I'm seeing. If the first photo is loose sawdust that doesn't look like it's arisen from the wood surface itself (water damage), it's probably just construction debris that wasn't cleaned out. (Really exciting to find in your furnace cavity, plugs up the sail switch no end.)

As far as the "spare" space, before you use anything, give a thought as to whether any of the adjacent items need ventilation airflow. If so, that may be why the space is there.
I didn't take anything off; I just removed the fridge. Everything in the pictures is how I found it. Is there a link to purchase the back cover?

The saw dust is just debris from the hole that was cut to run the romex. In the very back you can see the pieced that make up the cutout. It's annoying more than anything, but it makes be want to check more cavities to clean them out. It's just a habit of mine, that I like even the things that aren't seen to be done to a higher standard.

As far as ventilation goes, it doesn't seem like there is anything there that requires it. The wall with the yellow arrow faces a storage area that opens into the center walk way of the camper under the lower bunk bed. The perpendicular wall is the back of the dinette seat. It's literally just dead space. Another thought is to open up the wall and have that space open into the camper as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flybouy View Post
Typically a residential outlet with speed connectors (strip a wire and stick it in hole) the screws DO NOT hold the wire when the speed connecyor is used. The screw holds the wire if the screw is first loosend, then the wire is placed under the screw head then the screw is tightened down.
I know which ones you are talking about. The ones I had used a a small plate under the screw that would clamp down onto the stripped wire when tightened. So it was faster than curling the wire into a C to put under the screw, but slower than the ones you mentioned.
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Old 09-07-2021, 03:15 AM   #11
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"[Another thought is to open up the wall and have that space open into the camper as well."] I wouldn't make an opening between the outdoor kitchen to the interior space. While using the kitchen the smells and food particals would be a beacon for insects and other critters to enter the camper.
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Old 09-07-2021, 06:00 AM   #12
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There is "precious little insulation" in any trailer. Likely there's virtually none in the area your arrows point to. The outdoor kitchen is exposed to the heat/cool "of nature" while the trailer interior is supposedly "insulated from that heat and cool (as well as the rain, snow, ice).

Cutting holes to fabricate "more storage" may seem like a good idea, but approach that kind of modification carefully and always remember that keeping the inside "separated and insulated" from the outside is necessary.

Nothing (well not much, anyway) is worse than stepping out of bed onto a cold, wet floor when expecting a warm, inviting surface for those barefoot trips to the toilet at 2AM. And, "pathways from outside to inside" are always appreciated by field mice, rats and even chipmunks and squirrels.....
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Old 09-07-2021, 10:30 AM   #13
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"[Another thought is to open up the wall and have that space open into the camper as well."] I wouldn't make an opening between the outdoor kitchen to the interior space. While using the kitchen the smells and food particals would be a beacon for insects and other critters to enter the camper.
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There is "precious little insulation" in any trailer. Likely there's virtually none in the area your arrows point to. The outdoor kitchen is exposed to the heat/cool "of nature" while the trailer interior is supposedly "insulated from that heat and cool (as well as the rain, snow, ice).

Cutting holes to fabricate "more storage" may seem like a good idea, but approach that kind of modification carefully and always remember that keeping the inside "separated and insulated" from the outside is necessary.

Nothing (well not much, anyway) is worse than stepping out of bed onto a cold, wet floor when expecting a warm, inviting surface for those barefoot trips to the toilet at 2AM. And, "pathways from outside to inside" are always appreciated by field mice, rats and even chipmunks and squirrels.....
Absolutely gentlemen. I would simply not open the space, but sort of relocate the wall so that the "void" would be open towards the inside, but the rest of the compartment walled off like it is now. The other downside of leaving it open its items finding their way into the crevices around the fridge stove while the trailer is in motion.

I think I will stay with my original idea of adding one of these in that area.

https://www.etrailer.com/RV-Fresh-Wa.../PF247701.html

I'm choosing this one becuase I have the same quick disconnect at the front of the camper and I can carry one hose for both.
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Old 09-07-2021, 11:43 AM   #14
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I didn't take anything off; I just removed the fridge. Everything in the pictures is how I found it. Is there a link to purchase the back cover?
O hell, that's unacceptable! Not just a shock hazard, but a fire hazard. The back cover is what substitutes for an electrical box.

Back covers aren't separately sold. There are various manufacturers of these outlets and their back covers are not interchangeable.

It's probably easiest just to fix this yourself. Outlet is $12 from Amazon. I don't know who makes the ones Keystone uses, only that this wasn't the same as what was in there, so you cant just swap in the back cover. But installing it is not hard.

The installation tool they suggest you buy is way pricier (professional ones are $400), but you can do a fine job with a plain pair of square-nose pliers and a small hammer.

Or, you can inspect the outlet you have, find the brand and model, order a spare somewhere, then just pop in the rear cover. Whatever makes you more comfortable. In fact, if you aren't far from your dealer, bring him this photo and ask for a replacement outlet for free, then you can swap the rear cover.
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Old 09-07-2021, 12:30 PM   #15
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O hell, that's unacceptable! Not just a shock hazard, but a fire hazard. The back cover is what substitutes for an electrical box.

Back covers aren't separately sold. There are various manufacturers of these outlets and their back covers are not interchangeable.

It's probably easiest just to fix this yourself. Outlet is $12 from Amazon. I don't know who makes the ones Keystone uses, only that this wasn't the same as what was in there, so you cant just swap in the back cover. But installing it is not hard.

The installation tool they suggest you buy is way pricier (professional ones are $400), but you can do a fine job with a plain pair of square-nose pliers and a small hammer.

Or, you can inspect the outlet you have, find the brand and model, order a spare somewhere, then just pop in the rear cover. Whatever makes you more comfortable. In fact, if you aren't far from your dealer, bring him this photo and ask for a replacement outlet for free, then you can swap the rear cover.
Thanks for the links! I'm going to call Camping World and send them a picture to see if they can get a replacement for me. I just got the camper in February. I'm now tempted to check the rest of the outlets.
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