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Old 12-08-2016, 05:18 AM   #21
bsmith0404
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Just curious why people always talk about costs of repairs for a diesel being higher than a gas. Yes I understand that a repair could cost more, but the life expectancy is greater and the chances of paying for a repair are less likely and less frequent. Additionally, the powertrain warranty on the diesels for GM and Ram are 5 years/100k miles. So the average person doesn't have to worry about paying for a single repair for the first 5 years. At that point, many diesel owners are still very confident in their trucks reliability, where gas owners still get scared when they bust the 100k mile glass ceiling. Additionally, many used truck buyers shy away from a 100k mile gasser, but don't bat an eye at a 100k mile coal burner so they retain better resale value.
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Old 12-08-2016, 05:43 AM   #22
rhagfo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outback 325BH View Post
In less than 50,000 miles TOWING HIS CAMPER. (Assuming your number lbs are correct.)

My capitalization is meant for highlighting not yelling...

Most people that choose a gasser do so because we don't tow all the time.

I have a 2016 F250 gasser and pull a 11,000 lbs TT... and get around 6.5 mpg. However, I only tow approximately 10% of the time.

For me personally, my reason for not going diesel were:
Initial cost
Potential repair costs (HPFP issues not covered by warranty for example)
Short trips (I routinely drive less than 1 mile cold, then shutdown)
I'm not afraid to rev the gasser like it is designed

Not saying a gasser is as good as a diesel. I LOVE the torque of the new ones. However, there are still valid reasons for going gasser.

I can get in the upper teens for mpg on the highway.


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Driving a gasser less than a mile and shutting down, is just as bad as doing to a diesel.
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Old 12-08-2016, 07:25 AM   #23
Outback 325BH
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Originally Posted by rhagfo View Post
Driving a gasser less than a mile and shutting down, is just as bad as doing to a diesel.


Not even close.


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Old 12-08-2016, 07:28 AM   #24
Outback 325BH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmith0404 View Post
Just curious why people always talk about costs of repairs for a diesel being higher than a gas. Yes I understand that a repair could cost more, but the life expectancy is greater and the chances of paying for a repair are less likely and less frequent. Additionally, the powertrain warranty on the diesels for GM and Ram are 5 years/100k miles. So the average person doesn't have to worry about paying for a single repair for the first 5 years. At that point, many diesel owners are still very confident in their trucks reliability, where gas owners still get scared when they bust the 100k mile glass ceiling. Additionally, many used truck buyers shy away from a 100k mile gasser, but don't bat an eye at a 100k mile coal burner so they retain better resale value.


Read up on HPFP failures and the costs associated with them. Ford doesn't warranty them or any other claim they see fit.

An entire new gas engine can be had for a fraction of the cost of a diesel repair.

You comments are the opposite of everything I have read and heard from modern diesel owners.


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Old 12-08-2016, 08:09 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Outback 325BH View Post
Read up on HPFP failures and the costs associated with them. Ford doesn't warranty them or any other claim they see fit.

An entire new gas engine can be had for a fraction of the cost of a diesel repair.

You comments are the opposite of everything I have read and heard from modern diesel owners.


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Well Ford is know for refusing warranty on the CP4, HPFP, but GM covers most and Ram uses the CP3 which is more reliable.
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Old 12-08-2016, 08:31 AM   #26
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There is some "speculation" going on among some posts here. Ford does not cover the LPFP (conditioning unit with water/fuel separator) in the extended warranty (past 36000 miles) but they do cover the HPFP and its associated fuel lines, injectors, etc. Here's the direct quote from Ford's 2015 warranty guide: Related to the fuel pumps, the parts in red are NOT covered, the parts in green ARE covered.

(4) Your vehicle’s direct injection diesel engine and certain engine
components are covered during the PowerStroke Diesel Engine Coverage
Period, which lasts for five years or 100,000 miles, whichever occurs
first. The following parts are covered during this extended coverage
period: the engine, cylinder block, heads and all internal parts, intake
and exhaust manifolds, timing gear, harmonic balancer, valve covers, oil
pan and pump, water pump, fuel system (excluding fuel lines, fuel tank
and frame mounted fuel conditioning module sometimes referred to as
the frame mounted pump/filter/water separator or frame mounted fuel
filter/water separator
), high pressure lines, gaskets and seals, glow plugs, turbocharger, two-stage turbocharger assembly, turbocharger actuator, powertrain control module, high pressure fuel injection pump assembly, injectors, injection pressure sensor, fuel rail pressure sensor, exhaust back pressure regulator and sensor, exhaust pressure sensor, manifold
pressure sensor, intake air temperature sensor, crankshaft position
sensor, camshaft position sensor, accelerator switch.

NOTE: Some components may also be covered by the Emissions
Warranties. For more information, see pages 17-31.
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Old 12-08-2016, 01:23 PM   #27
Outback 325BH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
There is some "speculation" going on among some posts here. Ford does not cover the LPFP (conditioning unit with water/fuel separator) in the extended warranty (past 36000 miles) but they do cover the HPFP and its associated fuel lines, injectors, etc. Here's the direct quote from Ford's 2015 warranty guide: Related to the fuel pumps, the parts in red are NOT covered, the parts in green ARE covered.



(4) Your vehicle’s direct injection diesel engine and certain engine

components are covered during the PowerStroke Diesel Engine Coverage

Period, which lasts for five years or 100,000 miles, whichever occurs

first. The following parts are covered during this extended coverage

period: the engine, cylinder block, heads and all internal parts, intake

and exhaust manifolds, timing gear, harmonic balancer, valve covers, oil

pan and pump, water pump, fuel system (excluding fuel lines, fuel tank

and frame mounted fuel conditioning module sometimes referred to as

the frame mounted pump/filter/water separator or frame mounted fuel

filter/water separator
), high pressure lines, gaskets and seals, glow plugs, turbocharger, two-stage turbocharger assembly, turbocharger actuator, powertrain control module, high pressure fuel injection pump assembly, injectors, injection pressure sensor, fuel rail pressure sensor, exhaust back pressure regulator and sensor, exhaust pressure sensor, manifold

pressure sensor, intake air temperature sensor, crankshaft position

sensor, camshaft position sensor, accelerator switch.



NOTE: Some components may also be covered by the Emissions

Warranties. For more information, see pages 17-31.


There are many reports of denying HPFP failures in the name of "water in fuel". Basically saying it is the customer's fault.

Either way, I'm not rolling the dice with them.

Won't buy a Government Motors for obvious reasons and won't buy a Fiat either.

[emoji846]


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Old 12-08-2016, 01:56 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outback 325BH View Post
There are many reports of denying HPFP failures in the name of "water in fuel". Basically saying it is the customer's fault.

Either way, I'm not rolling the dice with them.

Won't buy a Government Motors for obvious reasons and won't buy a Fiat either.

[emoji846]


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There's always the "somebody" that claims a denied warranty repair but almost always, we only get the complainer's side of the story and never hear what the company actually said, only what "he says they said" which is almost always "slanted and half truths".... I guess we'll always have that kind of unverifiable "verified" report being claimed on the internet. The only HPFP denials I've read about (No I haven't read 100% of the internet's posts) have been denied because the owner added DEF to the fuel tank and "trashed" the pumps. So, I'd guess that is a "water in fuel" condition, but certainly not a "normally occurring condition".... I haven't heard of anyone being denied a HPFP repair if the LPFP filter and water separator have been maintained properly and appropriate "fuel only/not DEF" has been put in the fuel tank.

I've got 25+ K miles on my 2015 diesel and my brother-in-law has 200K+ on his 2010 6.4L diesel. Both of them have "about the same" kind of LPFP/water separator. Neither of us have ever had any water drain from the canister, so in my experience (limited as it might be) I haven't seen any "water contamination in the diesel fuel, so I'd guess it would take a significant amount of "bad fuel" to even cause a problem with the HPFP.

I might add that we live in an area where there's significant cold, wet weather and if there's going to be "tank condensation" and "water contamination" we're in the "perfect storm" type conditions, yet we've not seen an issue...

Maybe we're just lucky ??? At any rate, as many diesels as are on the road, if the HPFP was that "picky" I'd think that there'd be a lot more problems being posted than I've seen.
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Old 12-08-2016, 06:51 PM   #29
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145k on my wonderful Government Motors D-max and the only repair I've had to make was an EGT sensor. I have added a FASS lift pump system which also adds a lower micron rated fuel filter and a separate water separator filter, but have never had any water drain from it. Additionally, I still run the stock filter/water separator so my fuel is getting double filtered. To be honest, I added the FASS system to save on filter costs. Changing a $30 filter every 10k miles or changing two $8 filters every 20k and a $30 filter every 50k (could have done an OE bypass and eliminated that filter, but decided not to). The FASS system filters are also much easier to change on the D-max than the OE filter. The system also adds a bit of extra piece of mind since it adds the lift pump, better filtration, and air removal which is better for the injectors. I've never had a fear of a denied warranty claim since Government Motors stands behind the D-max pretty much without question. After 145k pretty much trouble free miles, I'm happy to own one for obvious reasons.

Good info on the Ford Warranty, I read somewhere that they only had a 5 yr/50k warranty on the power stroke, I guess they decided to match the dmax and Ram.

As for Fiat, I'm not a big fan of their trucks, but they do have a great diesel engine with the Cummins.

Personally, I know a lot of diesel truck owners from all 3 makes and have never heard of a HPFP warranty claim denial. I've heard of some failures after the warranty has run out, but they seem to be fairly rare. Most of the ones I've heard of have been after a couple hundred thousand miles. I really don't care if someone wishes to tow with a gas truck (as long as I'm not behind them on a hill), I just don't understand the maintenance costs as a reason for it. Especially when you get 100k miles of warranty and most people change out trucks about the time the warranty would be running out anyway.
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Old 12-09-2016, 05:06 AM   #30
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All this diesel banter would be great if it was on its own thread. I don't see any relevance on this one.

"MPG's for the 2015-2016 2500 HD 6.0 gas burner"

Just sayin'...
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Old 12-09-2016, 02:58 PM   #31
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Have a 16 pulling a Carbon 33 getting about 6.5 with no wind and a if it is windy at all 5.7 pulling though the Flint Hill of Kansas, not mountains but pretty hilly. Put K&N filter on help a little. Empty doing around 12.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the sodfather View Post
All this diesel banter would be great if it was on its own thread. I don't see any relevance on this one.

"MPG's for the 2015-2016 2500 HD 6.0 gas burner"

Just sayin'...
My Bad!

I posted back to the post from Fjrandy that with his poor of fuel mileage, why he would not have opted to get a diesel, rig has a GVWR of 13,000. Diesel would pull that at about 12 mpg, and likely get close to 20 mpg empty, returning the up front cost in less than 50,000 miles.

Poster returned his reasons for not going diesel, biggest being short trips empty around town.

Sorry to have taken this thread on a Left turn!
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