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Old 12-20-2021, 08:40 AM   #21
travelin texans
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We traded vehicles back in March, fortunately just before the chip fiasco, while there we noticed that there were over a dozen used Tesla's on their lot. Asked the salesman about it to which he stated, remember this is a salesman, that due to lack of range & lack of remote charging locations for the EVs. Maybe the large metropolitan areas have a choice of remote charging stations, but 250 miles may not get you to one of those or back home if you live in small town America.
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Old 12-20-2021, 09:10 AM   #22
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No one has mentioned Fuel Cells, (FC's). Lesser known but another emerging alternative. The Hyperion wastewater plant in Los Angles, CA has used methane produced from sewage sludge to produce electricity and provide hydrogen for FC's to power some local govt. vehicles. No fossil fuels used! They can be filled similar to gasoline pumps in minutes vs. hours. I actually saw a Hydrogen pump at a PA Turnpike rest stop.

Don't get me wrong, I love the roar of a fossil fuel engine, even raced cars at Maple Grove Drag Strip in PA but we do need to leave this Earth a better place than we found it for the sake of our children and grandchildren. Technology Forcing, a real EPA policy, has made very significant strides in cleaning the air, let's see what the next 5-10 years brings for transportation.

I'm going to give up fossil fuels kicking and screaming like everyone else, but eventually embrace what the future brings.
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Old 12-20-2021, 09:19 AM   #23
wiredgeorge
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Originally Posted by travelin texans View Post
We traded vehicles back in March, fortunately just before the chip fiasco, while there we noticed that there were over a dozen used Tesla's on their lot. Asked the salesman about it to which he stated, remember this is a salesman, that due to lack of range & lack of remote charging locations for the EVs. Maybe the large metropolitan areas have a choice of remote charging stations, but 250 miles may not get you to one of those or back home if you live in small town America.
I saw on the news that Joe and Kamala plan on putting up 500,000 NEW charging stations around the country with my hard earned tax money. This is one of their spend George's tax dollars money giveaways... This will be a great boon the the electro-mobile owners.

Found this elsewhere regarding Tesla charging:

QUOTE "How long do Superchargers take to charge a Tesla? Currently, most Tesla Superchargers can now recharge up to 200 miles of range in just 15 minutes, depending on the rate of charge. These DC charging speeds range from 90 kW to 250 kW, depending on which Supercharger pile you’re at.

While 250 kW is the current limit for Superchargers, Tesla has shared plans to increase DCFC charge speeds upwards to 300 kW." UNQUOTE

While charging for 15 minutes sounds great, my poor arithmetic skills made me exercise my knowledge of Ohm's law and it appears a 15 minute charge at either power level would require the it's own coal fired electrical plant to generate this much juice. I am not sure what voltage is used to charge these beasts. Of course, most folks will still want to charge at home. If you plug into that handy 110V 15A plug, 2 to 3 miles PER HOUR for range. To go 100 miles, that means 33 to 50 hours of charging.

Folks will soon get the picture and put in a 240V outlet. Get the electrician to install a 50A breaker with 240 outlet to get between 20 and 30 miles of range per hour of charge so you can charge for a 100 mile trip in at best 3 1/2 hours or so.

Tesla offers its own solution called the "Wall Adapter" and these charge faster than the other home charging methods but cost a bucket of money and an electrician must be paid.

Again, where does the electricity come from? Fossil fuels account for 60 percent of US electrical generation and Nuke 20 percent and renewable generation (wind/solar etc) 20 percent.

To make the install of these charging stations useful from an eco standpoint, the basic generation of electricity would have to be altered I think.
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Old 12-20-2021, 10:00 AM   #24
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Cool

And what do you do with a 5 year old electric vehicle? NOTHING! because the battery needs replacing at 7 years so the dealer won't touch it on trade in and no one that knows anything about them will buy it from you! So you're stuck!
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Old 12-20-2021, 01:28 PM   #25
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And what do you do with a 5 year old electric vehicle? NOTHING! because the battery needs replacing at 7 years so the dealer won't touch it on trade in and no one that knows anything about them will buy it from you! So you're stuck!
Excellent point. This article says most electro-mobiles are warranted for 8 years. Should the battery need to be replaced on the owner's dime, this article also has an actual invoice for this service. North of $14K for the battery and north of $2K for the labor. Ouch.

https://www.currentautomotive.com/ho...lacement-cost/
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Old 12-20-2021, 02:58 PM   #26
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Very big and important issue. Can we do anything individually or as an RV group to try and help?
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Old 12-20-2021, 03:51 PM   #27
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Very big and important issue. Can we do anything individually or as an RV group to try and help?
Yes we can. And to answer the "What next?" question, here's the answer.

https://laughingsquid.com/cercle-concept-bicycle/

Yes ladies and gentleman, the cure for fossil fuel consumption, obesity, traffic congestion, and all of the other associated problems has been found.
I figure you can get about 6 of these on one campsite. So no more problems getting a place to camp. Just put a porta-potty over the sewer connection and a tankless water heater (off the campsite power) with an enclosed shower and sink and voila!! More revenue for campgrounds, they will love it.
Wait !!! Where's my 55 inch television, fireplace, king size bed ect..? Oh well, we are all good American's so those items and your freedom are all expendable. Correct?
Yes there are those (in power) that would like nothing more than to see your TV and trailer turned into a chicken coup, maybe a planter or a home for Afghan refugees.
As for the electric alternatives, I agree that it is an industry that has a steep learning curve still to be negotiated, and it will be a long time before I comfortably put one of those products in my garage. I get the clean air thing for kids and it is a valid concern. but like John said, the real challenge is getting the rest of the world to be as concerned as we are. Good luck.
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Old 12-20-2021, 05:11 PM   #28
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I saw on the news that Joe and Kamala plan on putting up 500,000 NEW charging stations around the country with my hard earned tax money. This is one of their spend George's tax dollars money giveaways... This will be a great boon the the electro-mobile owners.

Found this elsewhere regarding Tesla charging:

QUOTE "How long do Superchargers take to charge a Tesla? Currently, most Tesla Superchargers can now recharge up to 200 miles of range in just 15 minutes, depending on the rate of charge. These DC charging speeds range from 90 kW to 250 kW, depending on which Supercharger pile you’re at.

While 250 kW is the current limit for Superchargers, Tesla has shared plans to increase DCFC charge speeds upwards to 300 kW." UNQUOTE

While charging for 15 minutes sounds great, my poor arithmetic skills made me exercise my knowledge of Ohm's law and it appears a 15 minute charge at either power level would require the it's own coal fired electrical plant to generate this much juice. I am not sure what voltage is used to charge these beasts. Of course, most folks will still want to charge at home. If you plug into that handy 110V 15A plug, 2 to 3 miles PER HOUR for range. To go 100 miles, that means 33 to 50 hours of charging.

Folks will soon get the picture and put in a 240V outlet. Get the electrician to install a 50A breaker with 240 outlet to get between 20 and 30 miles of range per hour of charge so you can charge for a 100 mile trip in at best 3 1/2 hours or so.

Tesla offers its own solution called the "Wall Adapter" and these charge faster than the other home charging methods but cost a bucket of money and an electrician must be paid.

Again, where does the electricity come from? Fossil fuels account for 60 percent of US electrical generation and Nuke 20 percent and renewable generation (wind/solar etc) 20 percent.

To make the install of these charging stations useful from an eco standpoint, the basic generation of electricity would have to be altered I think.

.… “this is one of their spend George’s tax money giveaways”

Now that was funny George!..I enjoy hearing your take on things…
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Old 12-20-2021, 07:44 PM   #29
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My sister just bought a BMW hybrid and they installed a charging station in the garage. If my memory isn’t mush I think it’s like 480 volts.

Can’t fathom how much power generating it would take to run a Tesla station with 20 outlets.
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Old 12-21-2021, 07:27 AM   #30
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.… “this is one of their spend George’s tax money giveaways”

Now that was funny George!..I enjoy hearing your take on things…

Hadn't seen you around for a bit and was wondering if the moderators had finally kicked you off the site for gross youtube posting bwhahahaha
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Old 12-21-2021, 04:37 PM   #31
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Hadn't seen you around for a bit and was wondering if the moderators had finally kicked you off the site for gross youtube posting bwhahahaha
.. I’ve been busy….finally finished rebuilding my Hemi for my 04 Ram 1500…my donor engine was filled with carbon and oil sludge. It was gonna be just a swap out but I ended up tearing it down and putting new rings and rod and main bearings…it’s a Frankenstein motor…used my crank,cam and lifters from my blown engine that was in better shape…engine building isn’t my forte so it took me longer then someone that does it more often……

CHANGE YOUR OIL PEOPLE ! It makes a difference

I just use the truck to run to Home Depot and run errands in but I like it
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Old 12-22-2021, 05:24 AM   #32
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We all need to widen our viewpoint. There are more ways to do electric than batteries. There are more non dino ways to power trucks. Most likely heavy trucks will switch to hydrogen. Many smaller trucks that need to go long distance may switch to H fuel cells. You would be a fool to think fossil fuel is a viable fuel in the future.
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Old 12-22-2021, 06:23 AM   #33
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Way back in 2010, I needed a commuter car for my daily 80 mile round trip, and bought a Toyota Prius, mainly for gas mileage and Toyota's reputation. 10 years and 170K miles later I traded it off as the book value was about the same as the cost to replace the traction battery, though it was still running great. I am believer in Toyota's hybrid tech but not behind all electric vehicles as they are today. There were no range limitations or fear with the hybrid setup. Honestly it wasn't that comfortable for a long journey however wasn't the intention of that particular model. The tech for batteries is improving and cost will come down as long as there is a profit motive.
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Old 12-22-2021, 06:56 AM   #34
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Ford Motor Company has purchased almost 4,000 acres for building their 'Blue Oval City' just east of Memphis. Ford will invest 6 billion in this plant and 4 billion in a battery plant to be built near Louisville. 6,000 new jobs plus related businesses for Tennessee and 4,000 new jobs for Kentucky.
And what is to be built? Ford F-150 electrics. I suspect the auto industry knows what is in the future.
https://www.actionnews5.com/2021/09/...cturing-plant/
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Old 12-22-2021, 07:46 AM   #35
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What next?

I bought a plugin hybrid 2022 Prius Prime two months ago to replace my Honda Fit as our urban vehicle. It has a 25 mile range on electric only, which gets me to and from work for 68 cents a day when temps are above freezing. Now that is cold, it is running as a hybrid most of the time and costing $2 a day for gas. Offsets the $150 to $200 a weekend I spend on the F250 gasser in the summer when pulling the FW.

IMO, at this time, EVs and plugin hybrids have their place but are not a replacement for all fuel powered vehicles. As a mostly dedicated urban vehicle, I am happy with ours. Maybe EVs will take over all/ most vehicles in my lifetime.
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Old 12-22-2021, 08:59 AM   #36
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We all need to widen our viewpoint. There are more ways to do electric than batteries. There are more non dino ways to power trucks. Most likely heavy trucks will switch to hydrogen. Many smaller trucks that need to go long distance may switch to H fuel cells. You would be a fool to think fossil fuel is a viable fuel in the future.
Define "the future". My future could be a moment from now dying while typing this, or it may be 30 or more years from now as I am 67 yrs old.History tells us that in the past The "Future fuel" was grass as it fed the beasts of burden that humans tamed for work and transportation. Then it was wood as steam engines in locomotives, farm equipment and ships "was the future". Then it was coal as BTU per pound coal could not (and still cannot) be beat if nuclear fission is not in the equation. I remember early in my childhood Chrysler built a turbine car that would be the "the car of the future". Then in the late 20 th century it was small fuel sipping diesels. Now, after decades it's still the battery powered car dominating the media.

Hydrogen? That's a dead end. I don't understand the cult following it has but here are a few facts. Hydrogen requires massive amounts of electrical energy to sp[lit off the two hydrogen atoms and store it. The cost to transport etc. makes Hydrogen inefficient, expensiven, and impractical. From what I've read about 50% of the hydrogen is lost by the time it reaches a vehicle's tank, which by the way is very heavy.

Alvin Toffler stated that "Technology feeds on itself" and I believe that battery power has come a long way still has a long way to go. I'm not Nostradamus so I don't know. If I did I'd be a very wealthy man. So in my opinion, the "energy alternatives" have a long way to go before they become practical, cost effective, and widely accepted. I do think whatever the vehichles and energy source of the future looks like it needs to compete with fossil fuels cost, convenience, and efficiencies.

As for being a fool, I don't consider myself a fool and don't really care for others' that call others that for the way they think. That seems to me as very much in opposition to "widening our viewpoints". Personally I think it foolish to talk in such "absolutes".
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Old 12-22-2021, 10:29 AM   #37
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I agree Marshall. Some believe if we "mandate" it then it will be so..... So much for that. There is currently nothing that can compete with fossil fuels. If we put all alternatives on an even playing field with zero subsidies the competition is literally eliminated without any possibilities for several generations - if then. Even then, cost to the consumer HAS to be a consideration as that is seemingly forgotten in many/most of the "hypotheticals".

Last but not least the reason for these changes has to be kept in mind - cleaning up the environment. Some think that if the U.S. will just export all the jobs, industry, technology and fuel resources then everything will be hunky dory.....even as all the other countries are industrializing, building, growing and out teching us. At least we will all be able to feel good as we spend the days as our forefathers did foraging for wood for the fire in the house to cook on, hoping a deer (or rabbit) will come by so we might have something to eat. Guess if it doesn't we can just hop on old paint with the methane bag strapped in the passenger seat of the saddle and start for town. Whoops, that would be a waste. Since the operation to put the methane tube etc. into the animal then makes it unable to do work and shortens its life, he only has a life expectancy of 6 mos. or 2 miles, whichever comes first - and it's 60 miles to town.....

As for those that call people names that don't agree with them, there is a small percentage of folks these days that believe they need to do that.....and it makes them "right". They don't realize all the "words" they spout don't do a thing but make them look ignorant. And no, I don't appreciate it nor does it belong in these conversations.
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Old 12-22-2021, 10:43 AM   #38
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The Bible Says (Proverbs 12:16) "The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, But he who heeds counsel is wise."
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Old 12-22-2021, 12:43 PM   #39
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Ford Motor Company has purchased almost 4,000 acres for building their 'Blue Oval City' just east of Memphis. Ford will invest 6 billion in this plant and 4 billion in a battery plant to be built near Louisville. 6,000 new jobs plus related businesses for Tennessee and 4,000 new jobs for Kentucky.
And what is to be built? Ford F-150 electrics. I suspect the auto industry knows what is in the future.
https://www.actionnews5.com/2021/09/...cturing-plant/
Hey that's great! More EVs drawing power to recharge. California can hardly keep the lights on during peak usage and they have to shut down grids due to fire hazards. How do they expect to add the recharging of a MASSIVE amount of EVs?
Of course the auto industry knows what's in the future, especially when they do not have to pay for it. Where do you think that $5.6 billion came from? Ford? I guarantee you that money came from the money printing machines in D.C. Some "strategy, disguised as legislation", allocating multiple billions to climate change agendas. Ford just looks good with "investment and job creation" of your tax dollars. That's all good until they hit the same challenges CA is having. Then they will not be able to build their electric toys or recharge them. Then what? Back to the diesel pump I guess.
A friend of mine in Nevada said he saw multiple EV recharge stations in a parking lot. Behind the parking lot? A diesel generator.
Kind of goes to the point others are making on here, we have a long way to go.
RMc
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Old 12-22-2021, 04:18 PM   #40
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I believe I know where the: "I guarantee you that money came from the money printing machines in D.C. Some "strategy, disguised as legislation", allocating multiple billions to climate change agendas." printing press vomit is coming from... my taxes, my kids taxes, my grandkids taxes and down to the 100th generation. Our visionary leaders sure know how to spend my money. Thanks govern MINT!
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