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Old 11-03-2021, 04:15 PM   #1
Village Idiot
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Battery/Converter Issue?

While removing the battery from my sister's camper (Salem 185RB) for the winter I found the electrolyte level was very low, I added over 1/2 gallon of distilled water. Tried to charge it but charger showed battery failure. I do much of the maintenance for her. My process is to remove the battery in the fall, check electrolyte level and ensure it is fully charged before I put it in the basement for the winter. Prior to re-install in the spring I again check electrolyte level and charge level. She used the camper approximately 15-18 days this year. The battery was new in the spring of 2020. Is this a battery issue or converter (over charging?) issue? How do I troubleshoot it?
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Old 11-03-2021, 04:24 PM   #2
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I would check the cells with a hydrometer. It could have a bad cell, and a hydrometer will tell you the state of each cell.
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Old 11-03-2021, 04:40 PM   #3
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Don't currently have one but will have Friday, thanks.
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Old 11-03-2021, 05:04 PM   #4
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While removing the battery from my sister's camper (Salem 185RB) for the winter I found the electrolyte level was very low, I added over 1/2 gallon of distilled water. Tried to charge it but charger showed battery failure. I do much of the maintenance for her. My process is to remove the battery in the fall, check electrolyte level and ensure it is fully charged before I put it in the basement for the winter. Prior to re-install in the spring I again check electrolyte level and charge level. She used the camper approximately 15-18 days this year. The battery was new in the spring of 2020. Is this a battery issue or converter (over charging?) issue? How do I troubleshoot it?
Important to only top off electrolyte AFTER battery is fully charged. If the plates are exposed, add only enough water to keep them submerged. Fluid levels rise as they charge. You don't want to over-fill.

"charger showed battery failure." - I generally don't trust equipment telling me something without confirmation. The aforementioned specific gravity check is key.

Putting the batteries in the basement should also include putting them on a float charger to keep them fully charged. Letting them sit for months is a bad idea. Flooded batteries can lose 30% of their charge every month, and once they drop below about 80% charged, they start eating themselves and may sustain permanent damage.
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Old 11-03-2021, 05:16 PM   #5
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Battery maintainers - check
Hydrometer- check
Thanks
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Old 11-04-2021, 02:08 AM   #6
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While removing the battery from my sister's camper (Salem 185RB) for the winter I found the electrolyte level was very low, I added over 1/2 gallon of distilled water. Tried to charge it but charger showed battery failure. I do much of the maintenance for her. My process is to remove the battery in the fall, check electrolyte level and ensure it is fully charged before I put it in the basement for the winter. Prior to re-install in the spring I again check electrolyte level and charge level. She used the camper approximately 15-18 days this year. The battery was new in the spring of 2020. Is this a battery issue or converter (over charging?) issue? How do I troubleshoot it?
1/2 gallon isn't very low, that's almost empty if it's a group 24. You might have a shot if you replaced it with actual battery acid and not just distilled water but I'd guess the battery will need replaceing. If she doesn't disconnect the battery either by removing the ground cable or using an aftermarket disconnect switch then ithe battery will go dead in a weeks or so from parasitic loads. Checking electrolyte level 2x a year isn't enough. Should be checked every 6 to 8 wks. IMHO. Once the electrolyte gets low enough to expose the plates then they can overheat and warp then touch and short out. Once that happens there's no reviving the battery.

I would replace the battery. In the spring, with the new battery fully charged plug in the shore cable with the battery cables off and check the voltage st the cables. Should be around 14 to 14.2 volts. Unplug shore power and connect battery cables. Plug back into shore power and watch it for 10 or 25 min. Voltage should settle down to around 13 volts
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Old 11-04-2021, 04:44 AM   #7
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Here's what Crown, Rolls and Trojan have to say about adding acid to flooded batteries:

https://www.crownbattery.com/news/wa...fe%20for%20use.

https://rollsbattery.com/wp-content/...ery_Manual.pdf
page 9: "UNLESS INSTRUCTED BY ROLLS TECHNICAL SUPPORT, NEVER ADD ACID
TO THE BATTERIES AT ANY TIME. USE DISTILLED WATER ONLY"

https://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/Tr...UsersGuide.pdf

Page 5: "Never add acid to a battery"
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Old 11-04-2021, 05:05 AM   #8
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"Here's what Crown, Rolls and Trojan have to say"
I was a little wary of where this post was headed.
I also had always been told to never add acid to a battery, only distilled water, by the Harley Davidson people and others.
I don't see a problem with a $90 investment in a new battery every two years for a little dependability, especially one being used in the manner that this one is. Very intermittent use is hard on a battery.
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Old 11-04-2021, 05:12 AM   #9
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I didn't go into detail because it was too late, my bad. What I was talking about was draining, flushing, then replacing the electrolyte. Adding would change the concentration. As I stated, I don't think it's worth saving at this point.
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Old 11-04-2021, 05:25 AM   #10
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1/2 gallon in ONE BATTERY?
PLEASE do yourself a huge favor and go buy a NEW battery now and be donw with the issue at hand... the plates in that battery are sulfated and the battery is SHOT...
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Old 11-04-2021, 06:29 AM   #11
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I would suggest the problem is "sulfation".

"A Sulfated battery has a buildup of lead sulfate crystals and is the number one cause of early battery failure in lead-acid batteries..."

So, here's my theory. The built up crystals eventually get to a point where they form a bridge from one plate to another. They are conductive so this causes an electrical short between the plates. That's why your charger indicated a failure.

Starting next season with a new battery then maintaining it at a fully charged and filled state will minimize sulfation and increase the useful life of the battery.
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Old 11-04-2021, 08:10 AM   #12
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I would suggest the problem is "sulfation".

"A Sulfated battery has a buildup of lead sulfate crystals and is the number one cause of early battery failure in lead-acid batteries..."

So, here's my theory. The built up crystals eventually get to a point where they form a bridge from one plate to another. They are conductive so this causes an electrical short between the plates. That's why your charger indicated a failure.

Starting next season with a new battery then maintaining it at a fully charged and filled state will minimize sulfation and increase the useful life of the battery.
Lead sulfate is an extremely poor conductor. That's a key factor in why it's so detrimental. Permanent sulfation covers the plates and prevents the surface area from being used in the reaction thus dramatically increasing resistance and capacity.

In extremely rare cases, the normal process of forming and breaking down lead sulfate can cause LEAD dendrites to form, which can result in your shorted plates theory. Shorted plates are catastrophic. These don't go unnoticed. Either during the event or by visible damage after-the-fact.

Given that these were likely routinely run with low electrolyte and stored in an unhealthy manner, lead-sulphate and possibly lead-oxide coating the plates have trashed one or more cells to the point that they can't be effectively charged.
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Old 11-04-2021, 08:26 AM   #13
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I think everyone is saying the same "bottom line recommendation"....

Those batteries are shot. Just store them in a safe location where they won't freeze (if uncharged) because they likely won't hold an effective charge. Make sure they're stored on a "leakproof pan or in a battery box"... Then, in the spring, use them as "core deposit" for new batteries and properly maintain the new ones.

These are "toast" or maybe even "just stale dry bread" at this point.....
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Old 11-04-2021, 08:31 AM   #14
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My process is "dead battery equals new battery". If that battery was 1/2 gal. low it's ruined. Keep them charging/maintained year round (converter/trickle charger) and water checked/refilled every couple of months. I believe somewhere on the top of the battery it will say something like "don't refill above the bottom of the hole" or something like that. If you fill it full you will just have the excess coming out of the top and filling the tray.
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Old 11-04-2021, 08:48 AM   #15
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"Lead sulfate is an extremely poor conductor"
This is a true statement and the overall condition of sulfation is the covering of the lead plates with the lead sulfide crystals reducing the effectiveness of the battery to hold a charge.
The issue I was trying to address was why the battery charger displayed a failure message. Any short between the individual cells will cause a fail condition on most smart chargers.
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Old 11-04-2021, 10:11 AM   #16
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I think everyone is saying the same "bottom line recommendation"....

Those batteries are shot. Just store them in a safe location where they won't freeze (if uncharged) because they likely won't hold an effective charge. Make sure they're stored on a "leakproof pan or in a battery box"... Then, in the spring, use them as "core deposit" for new batteries and properly maintain the new ones.

These are "toast" or maybe even "just stale dry bread" at this point.....
"just stale dry bread"...I laughed.

Thanks to all for all the wisdom, fortunately our brother-in-law can get us batteries at cost so it won't hurt quite as bad.
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Old 11-04-2021, 02:27 PM   #17
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Another bit of information I should have included. When I removed the battery there was liquid in the bottom of the battery box, there wasn't much, less than a half a pint. Assumed it was from some recent rains that managed to get in. The battery has been sitting in my garage since Sunday morning and doesn't appear to be leaking. Don't know that this changes anything.
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Old 11-04-2021, 03:42 PM   #18
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Another bit of information I should have included. When I removed the battery there was liquid in the bottom of the battery box, there wasn't much, less than a half a pint. Assumed it was from some recent rains that managed to get in. The battery has been sitting in my garage since Sunday morning and doesn't appear to be leaking. Don't know that this changes anything.
IMO, that won't change anything, the batteries still need to be replaced. I'd make a WAG that the water was what "perked out of the battery vents as steam/vaporization, collected on the cooler plastic battery box, condensed and dripped down the sides... With you putting half a gallon in the battery to cover the plates, I'd say that half a pint was distilled water with a hint of acid smell for good measure...
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Old 11-05-2021, 06:36 PM   #19
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Do I need to be concerned about the converter being part of the issue...overcharging?
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Old 11-05-2021, 06:38 PM   #20
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Do I need to be concerned about the converter being part of the issue...overcharging?
Depends on your converter. Is it a newer ”smart” charger that adjusts based on the battery’s state of charge or is it an older all or nothing?
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