No payload sticker , numbers check .....

boatguy · 09-29-2021, 02:43 PM

You all got me doing some hardcore thinking about our rig set-up after reading about all the conversations about payload and such . So just wanted to have some you who are more knowledgeable about the numbers , check ours to see how much "buffer" we have for our tow rig set-up . BTW, we have NO payload sticker on the doorjam like some have ...... will attach what we have .

Dedicated tow vehicle :
2001 Chevy Suburban 2500 2WD, 8.1-496 , 4l80E , 4.10 ratio .
New HD Draw tite hitch , Reese WD with sway control (friction style) , Tekonsha Prodigy .

Bumper pull Trailer :
2021 Keystone Passport 229RK .
Numbers from the factory (I know they are lower than real life) -
Shipping weight 5170 , CC 2030 , hitch 575 . 26'10" length .

I know I should scale everything, but have not yet . Thinking we are prob about 900-1K tongue weight with 2 6 volt batts, and propane, etc . I know we do not travel light like a lot of people try to say. We try, but still have most of everything we need , so prob are about 1200lbs or so of the CC .
Thinking we are maybe 6500-6800 loaded ?

Suburban travels light - 2 adults and a dog . Not much in the back except a full 12 volt travel cooler , some fluids, misc stuff . Trying to keep payload to a minimum .

Just wondering what you guys think about this set-up ? Been using it all summer , and have it dialed in pretty good so far . About 2500 miles so far and it tows great, with no lacking for power , no sway . I am a firm believer of not undersizing the tow vehicle so I think we should be in good shape , just looking for some real world confirmation from you all .
Do I have enough buffer built in with this set-up ? We generally travel all up and down the east coast from Maine to Florida , and out west to about Chicago area , but looking to "real west" , soon .

Thanks for any input !

wiredgeorge · 09-29-2021, 03:09 PM

My last tow vehicle was a 96 F250 and it also had no payload sticker. Most 3/4 tons will be in the neighborhood of 2000-2300 lbs but not sure how an SUV stacks up. Your camper gross weight will be about 7200 lbs and generally +/- 13 percent of the gross will be your tongue weight or roughly 936 lbs; may be more or less. Add stuff in your SUV, the hitch and passengers and you may be OK as I don't have any idea how many of you or how much these people/items weigh. I do know you own a gas hog (have been there) so lots of gas/potty breaks are in your future per my crystal ball. I am sure more sentient members will tell you more specific numbers based on your manufacture/weights sticker.

**flybouy** · 09-29-2021, 03:30 PM

Your GVWR is only 8,600 lb. SUVs are heavy by nature due to the extra interior space (more sheet metal, glass, carpet, extra seat, et .). The ONLY way to know is weight it, otherwise it's purely guessing. Why not weigh it an know?

**sourdough** · 09-29-2021, 03:58 PM

Without a scale weight of the vehicle you're just kind of "shooting in the dark". I pulled up a vehicle similar to yours (I think) but it had the 6.0L. I also don't know if they had regular and extended versions of your Suburban. It did have the same 8600lb. gvw.

It showed the curb weight of the vehicle as 5760lbs. and payload of 2840 - I don't believe either of those. A Suburban is a big, heavy vehicle.

That said, with that size trailer and if the vehicle specs are anywhere close, looks like that truck should be OK with that trailer. I think I would be worrying more about the suspension components and other items on a 20 year TV.

**JRTJH** · 09-29-2021, 04:18 PM

I agree with Marshall, the only way to know for sure is to put the rig on a scale.

I'd guess that you're figures are pretty close on the trailer, but a 20 year old suburban may (or may not) be close to what you're guessing. We had a 2004 Excursion Limited, Ford's "super large suburban type" with a diesel engine. It weighed almost 7800 pounds with a GVWR of 9200. Doing the math, that "huge 9 passenger vehicle" could only carry that many people if half of them weighed less than 100 pounds.... That's with nothing behind the rear seat or in the console. The "Achille's heel" for large SUV's is all the weight of that extra long top and all the seats under it. Compared to an open bed truck, the extra enclosure, leather and glass kills the carrying ability.....

You're close on the trailer weight estimate, but without an actual weight on the Suburban, there's no way to even guess how the rig stacks up.....

Essvar · 09-29-2021, 04:43 PM

Question.... I know the "payload" sticker deal but...

I've towed heavy trailers with light weight trucks that have more "payload"

and I've towed heavy trailers with heavy trucks that don't have the payload.

I'll take a heavy tow vehicle any day....

Thoughts?

boatguy · 09-29-2021, 04:47 PM

Looks like I should get to the scales . Truck normally loaded, then TT normally loaded sound good ?
So , my payload would be 8600 - scale weight of truck basically ?
Truck is rated to tow 12,000 from what I can find. Drawtite hitch matches that as well .

Truck is in great shape for a 20y/o 3/4 . Its originally a Cali truck, no rust what so ever , and right now, its sitting at 123K , mechanically (and suspension) very sound.
Its set-up for towing . Mag hytec trans and rear end cover for cooling and extra capacity, extra electric fan over trans cooler, scanguage 2 to keep an eye on things , hydro brakes, Auto ride shock delete, etc . Fully serviced constantly . New BF AT KO's .
Here is a picture from 2 weeks ago from Schoodic Point, Blueberry Hill (Acadia) . About as clean of a 20 y/o truck you will find . (Feel very lucky to have found this !)

TT was upgraded with new Goodyear Endurance tires, and also put on Dexter EZ- Flex suspension upgrade.

Acadia about 2 weeks ago ......

Will get on the scale soon . Just wanted to make sure I had plenty of buffer room and wasn't cutting it too close . I can feel "7K" pounds back there, but the Burb doesnt seem to be minding it one bit . Hills are non issue (can usually pass the semis up hill , and can keep 55-65 np on any inclines ), and had an emergency stop situation on our last trip and the rig stopped like an indy car . (very thankful we were not towing with a 1/2 ton !)

Its hard on fuel , but we can go for pretty long stretch's with out stopping thanks to the 38.5 gallon tank . Think we were hovering about 7-8mpg on the tough North east hills up to Maine from PA .

Thanks for the input so far !

**JRTJH** · 09-29-2021, 05:13 PM

That 12,000 pound tow rating" is a "marketing gimmick" not an "approved RV type trailer rating"... The way that manufacturers come up with tow ratings is by using an SAE standard process. That process requires a vehicle be able to tow a "flatbed trailer" with cement blocks (or iron ingots) that are carefully positioned over the axles to achieve a 10% tongue weight. Then that trailer is towed by the vehicle over a specific course and must successfully complete specific acceleration and braking tests as well as meet specific mechanical criteria (engine/transmission temperature, etc).

That is "artificial" when it comes to towing a "big square box" behind that same vehicle. The "tow rating" does not include any frontal area drag, no sidewinds or buffeting from passing trucks and large vehicles. It doesn't include a "non-adjustable 13% tongue weight or any "cargo in the tow vehicle"... All of which are routinely required in RV towing....

Take that 12,000 pound tow rating and "scrap it" You'll NEVER be able to simulate that kind of towing with any RV you hitch to your suburban.... Consider it a "advertising fantasy" as it simply doesn't apply to the kind of towing environment you have with a travel trailer behind your vehicle.....

Don't interpret these comments as suggesting that your vehicle is not capable. That's not what I'm saying at all. What I am saying is that without weighing your rig, you can't make any "specific judgement" and that not all you read about "towing ratings" in a brochure applies to the type of towing you do with a travel trailer behind your truck.

Ken / Claudia · 09-29-2021, 05:40 PM

You asked is the payload 8600 lbs NO WAY. Thats the GVWR. Look up what that means.
Payload will be easy to figure, take the vehicle to a scale station and check it by it self and full of fuel. That's your vehicle weight. Take the GVWR number in this case 8600 and minus that number of what your vehicle weighted in at empty.
Example: GVWR 8600 minus vehicle weight 6800 means 2000 lb payload.
Payload is max wt the vehicle can carry not pull. So, put all your people/gear in SUV hook up rv and again weight it to see real numbers, you might be close to vehicle limits.
Those weights listed for front and rear axles should also be under the posted numbers.
Axle overloads are what takes out wheels bearings/axles and sometimes breaks u joints and ring and pinion gears.

boatguy · 09-29-2021, 05:46 PM

Just did some checking online, and I did find some payload estimates for the exact chassis and options.
Granted these are just a guess until I get the truck to a scale .
8600 lbs is the GVWR, that much is known and in stone (sticker) .
This exact model of truck shows a estimated curb weight of 5510 (which sounds a bit low I will admit) . This puts the payload at 3090.

Wont know till I scale the truck to be sure, but I am guessing I have to be 6k+ some . That should get me in the 2500lb payload area . If the truck scales at 7k+ , its not going to be a good day , lol .

boatguy · 09-29-2021, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken / Claudia

You asked is the payload 8600 lbs NO WAY. Thats the GVWR. Look up what that means.
.

I never implied I thought my payload was 8600 lbs .

I asked how to calculate payload .
"So , my payload would be 8600 - scale weight of truck basically ?"
The dash was a minus. 8600 MINUS scale weight of the truck .

**sourdough** · 09-29-2021, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatguy

Just did some checking online, and I did find some payload estimates for the exact chassis and options.
Granted these are just a guess until I get the truck to a scale .
8600 lbs is the GVWR, that much is known and in stone (sticker) .
This exact model of truck shows a estimated curb weight of 5510 (which sounds a bit low I will admit) . This puts the payload at 3090.

Wont know till I scale the truck to be sure, but I am guessing I have to be 6k+ some . That should get me in the 2500lb payload area . If the truck scales at 7k+ , its not going to be a good day , lol .

That payload you found won't be right. My last 1/2 ton pickup weighed about as much as they are showing for a 3/4 ton Suburban....think full body all the way back, 300lbs. of extra glass etc. You WILL be well over 6k loaded. Don't worry about weighing the truck empty unless that is how you intend to travel...it won't be. LOAD it up with anything and everything because at some point that is where you will be for some reason.

I know you said it is in great shape mechanically and in the pics it looks nice but....it is lifted. Doesn't really matter what kind or which way the higher center of gravity will definitely cause you a problem in an emergency maneuver unless you have some really good stuff not only in the lift components but everything else used to support and control the vehicle - btdt many times.

LHaven · 09-29-2021, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatguy

BTW, we have NO payload sticker on the doorjam like some have ...... will attach what we have . !

On our 1999 Suburban, I remember our "yellow sticker" was actually on the door edge, instead of the doorframe. Just saying, if you have "doorframe" stuck in your head, you never even look there.

notanlines · 09-30-2021, 03:24 AM

Boatguy, just to make sure you don't get your hopes up. We owned a 1998 2500 GMC Suburban, 454 that ran great and loved every gas station in sight. For a period of time we towed a 38' Fountain Lightning, which when full of fuel with trailer weighed just north of 12K.
8800 GVW same as yours, and the weight of the vehicle WITH WDH, DW, full of fuel and just a few goodies in back left us with slightly under 1800 pounds of available cargo capacity.
We used 1200 pound bars on that cheap WDH and they were stretched to the max. There was no sway control, being a boat (an aerodynamic tow) and axles located farther back it didn't seem necessary at the time.
After a couple years we sold the Suburban and bought a new Excursion. Equal ride, equal thirst for gas, equally quiet, slightly less cargo capacity, but seemed to tow with more control. I have no reason why.

boatguy · 09-30-2021, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourdough

I know you said it is in great shape mechanically and in the pics it looks nice but....it is lifted. Doesn't really matter what kind or which way the higher center of gravity will definitely cause you a problem in an emergency maneuver unless you have some really good stuff not only in the lift components but everything else used to support and control the vehicle - btdt many times.

Nope , its all stock 2500 3/4 ton suspension . Running boards were removed , so maybe thats throwing you off . It is riding on slightly larger 265's though .
Already had a "hair raising" ( underwear changing maybe, lol ) , emergency stop situation with the whole rig in travel mode . Stopped very controlled , and FAST . BF's were barely squealing, and it would have put us on the winshield had we not been wearing seat belts we stopped so quickly . 3/4 ton big hydro brakes will do that. Like I said, glad we did not opt for a 1/2 ton .

**sourdough** · 09-30-2021, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatguy

Nope , its all stock 2500 3/4 ton suspension . Running boards were removed , so maybe thats throwing you off . It is riding on slightly larger 265's though .
Already had a "hair raising" ( underwear changing maybe, lol ) , emergency stop situation with the whole rig in travel mode . Stopped very controlled , and FAST . BF's were barely squealing, and it would have put us on the winshield had we not been wearing seat belts we stopped so quickly . 3/4 ton big hydro brakes will do that. Like I said, glad we did not opt for a 1/2 ton .

I'm glad it stopped well for you since that is one of the bigger concerns. I will say I've never seen a 2wd Suburban that sits like that and I've mess(ed) with vehicles a lot. Have you owned it since new?

NMRandy · 10-01-2021, 02:50 PM

"Axle overloads are what takes out wheels bearings/axles and sometimes breaks u joints and ring and pinion gears." I have never ever seen this happen. As a former LEO, you might have seen something I haven't. I had a friend that had that exact vehicle, and his was that tall, and was stock. The 1/2 ton 2wd, with 5 bolt wheels sat a lot lower.

quaddriver · 10-04-2021, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatguy

Just did some checking online, and I did find some payload estimates for the exact chassis and options.
Granted these are just a guess until I get the truck to a scale .
8600 lbs is the GVWR, that much is known and in stone (sticker) .
This exact model of truck shows a estimated curb weight of 5510 (which sounds a bit low I will admit) . This puts the payload at 3090.

Wont know till I scale the truck to be sure, but I am guessing I have to be 6k+ some . That should get me in the 2500lb payload area . If the truck scales at 7k+ , its not going to be a good day , lol .

I have a slightly older sub...same config a true 1 ton with the floater. empty wt is appx 5500lbs. GVWR is 8600 for the floating 2500s. But you are in PA I gather, so it is registered passenger with a SW classification. based on your sticker, you can go up to 9300lbs without johnny law having a case. but those buses have progressive ellipticals...first 5-600lbs gives you 3" drop. takes a thou for the next inch.

Target your tongue weight for under a tho, using the rule of 1/3rds that is under 700lbs on the *** end, the D/T hitch is 12000/1200 w/d? you will be fine. im running an older 10000/1000

Using my 90 I pulled our 290BHS using 750 bars in drop 3 and it was well within any margins of safety and moreso since I am not using sway at the moment. last weekend I used my new 1200lb bars at drop 3 and it was more than enough, I might go drop 2 this weekend until we get more crap in the trailer.

max out your brake gain, medium sync setting and learn how to use the charlie bar

quaddriver · 10-04-2021, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NMRandy

"Axle overloads are what takes out wheels bearings/axles and sometimes breaks u joints and ring and pinion gears." I have never ever seen this happen. As a former LEO, you might have seen something I haven't. I had a friend that had that exact vehicle, and his was that tall, and was stock. The 1/2 ton 2wd, with 5 bolt wheels sat a lot lower.

bone stock 2wd 1 ton. its how they made em.

Ken / Claudia · 10-05-2021, 11:21 AM

FYI, I had a 02 chev trailblazer long wheelbase, 4x4 GVWR was 6500, I took it to a scale station full of fuel and me. It was 5500lbs. Incase you not aware of those, it is much smaller than a Subur
Your right, I missed the -.
I will guess that vehicle is in the 6500 curb wt. +- some.

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