Tank sensors

chunker · 03-28-2020, 05:24 AM

During the PDI I/we checked the plumbing for operation and leaks but I didn't fill all the tanks up. At home under my pole barn with full hook ups, I am doing additional checks. The Raptor 356 has 4 waste tanks and the In command system to monitor them. I first filled the fresh tank and it showed being filled. I didn't fill to the point of running out the vent but will next week. The kitchen grey to kitchen worked good but the bath room grey shows no indications. I didn't fill to the point of backing up into the shower so no idea how much but I did put a lot in.

OK right off the bat I know the tank indicators are unreliable but in this case something isn't connected or such. Tanks are of course above the coroplast so can't see the tank sensors. With the In command is there a central spot to check? What about the big panel in the basement pass thru? Does that have relays or switches for individual tanks or is the In command have a reset or such to check?

I'm not going to "rush it to the dealer" for this and will wait till there are more things after a trip or two. But if it's something simple I'd rather do it myself than take it in.

For the black tanks since the flow to the toilets is slow, I'll stick a hose in the toilet for faster filling. Garage half bath showed 1/3rd? indication after running the sink a while.

77shovelhead · 03-28-2020, 06:28 AM

yes take off cover to the left 8 wires that is the tank sensors if you go to in command web site you can download Manuel for your model good luck

NH_Bulldog · 03-28-2020, 06:40 AM

Tank sensors serve no real purpose other than to give us something extra to worry about. There is no standard placement of the sensors on the tanks, they are inherently unreliable, and cause more stress than they are worth. Just my opinion. But if you really, really, really want to know for sure, use a 5 gallon bucket to dump water down the drain a bucket at a time. Check the sensor level each time and document how many gallons it takes to hit 1/3, 2/3, then full. At full reading compare gallons in tank to your stated tank capacity. Do this for all of your tanks. The numbers will be all over the place and likely will make you scratch your head, but at least you will know. Once you have a few trips behind you, tank readings will mean less and less and intuition will rule the day. Good luck!

**chuckster57** · 03-28-2020, 06:50 AM

Common issue is a bad ground at the tank.

With your gen issue and now the tank sensor issue, I’m beginning to wonder about the PDI. Both should have been caught and addressed BEFORE you ever saw it.

Tank sensors can and do work, and with a little care can remain reliable for the life of the unit.

Keystoned · 03-28-2020, 06:51 AM

Just to add some confusion, lol, I recently filled my fresh at home while watching the sensors indicate as expected until full, then stopped the water flow. A few days later I filled up at the camp ground before parking, until water came out the fill port. Should indicate full, right?
It indicated empty, hah! I didn't worry since I knew it was full. A day or two later it indicated full, sob! So now I'm wondering if I have find the sensors and make sure the nuts are not loose...they were on my gray tank.

chunker · 03-28-2020, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Common issue is a bad ground at the tank.

With your gen issue and now the tank sensor issue, I’m beginning to wonder about the PDI. Both should have been caught and addressed BEFORE you ever saw it.

Tank sensors can and do work, and with a little care can remain reliable for the life of the unit.

I'm aware that the dealer's PDI wasn't going to be thorough and mine wasn't as good as it should have been. I wasn't feeling good and after 4 hours was pretty wiped out. The generator issue was my fault with the strain relief I put on too tight. I'm out of town till next week so when I get back I'll pull the In command cover and look for a wiring issue. I'll also finish filling all the waste tanks. As tanks get dirty that contributes to poor working but new they should be clean and in their "best behavior".

I agree that bad grounds are a common culprit, but any suggestions where to start for this system? I really hate to pull the coroplast at this point. Along that thought, what kind of bolts are they that are used? Looks like some sort of small hex head with a plastic swirl thing on it. The hex head part doesn't look well defined sort of rounded so not sure what size wrench to use but it's small under 1/4". Past trailers had regular hex self tapping bolts maybe 5/16" or 3/8" head.

**chuckster57** · 03-28-2020, 08:24 AM

If they used self tapping then the 3/8" hex head is the most common. Just look for the sensor pack for that tank, run a jumper wire form the white to the frame and if it starts working then just add it permanent.

**JRTJH** · 03-28-2020, 08:30 AM

I can access the "end of the tank" and the sensor heads on two of my four tanks. There is a "false wall" at the rear of my "under bedroom passthrough storage" and behind that wall, the floor is cut away. I'd guess it's designed as a means to "flow warm air" around the tanks, but it does provide a "flashlight/mirror access" to the tank sensor fittings. Yours may as well.

Removing the Coroplast is not "difficult" but I wouldn't do it unless there's no other way. On most trailers, the Coroplast is "glued to the frame rails" as well as "shot in place". What looks like self tapping screws are actually "pneumatic nails" shot in place. Once you pull them, you'll need to replace them with self tapping screws/washers to reattach the Coroplast. Keep in mind that the "waterproof/airproof" foam that glued the Coroplast in place will no longer provide that protection, so I'd suggest not "pulling the Coroplast just to check". If you do pull it, get a can of foam (messy as it is) to "reseal the Coroplast" to the frame rails.

chunker · 03-28-2020, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRTJH

I can access the "end of the tank" and the sensor heads on two of my four tanks. There is a "false wall" at the rear of my "under bedroom passthrough storage" and behind that wall, the floor is cut away. I'd guess it's designed as a means to "flow warm air" around the tanks, but it does provide a "flashlight/mirror access" to the tank sensor fittings. Yours may as well.

Removing the Coroplast is not "difficult" but I wouldn't do it unless there's no other way. On most trailers, the Coroplast is "glued to the frame rails" as well as "shot in place". What looks like self tapping screws are actually "pneumatic nails" shot in place. Once you pull them, you'll need to replace them with self tapping screws/washers to reattach the Coroplast. Keep in mind that the "waterproof/airproof" foam that glued the Coroplast in place will no longer provide that protection, so I'd suggest not "pulling the Coroplast just to check". If you do pull it, get a can of foam (messy as it is) to "reseal the Coroplast" to the frame rails.

Yes the "bolts" appear to be a pneumatic nail of sorts. I agree and really don't want to pull the coroplast at this point. I peeked at the edge of the coroplast and could see another sheeting above it and it appeared to be glued so yes I want to leave that alone.

On the left side in the basement pass thru there is a removable wall but it only covers about half the aft wall. I'm going to pull it next week because I don't like that the water lines rub against an edge and eventually will wear through. I also can inspect some of the plumbing lines and drain connections for any potential leaking. The right side of the aft wall has the In command "big box" with all the relays?? etc. My thinking is that wall won't be easy to remove. Perhaps when I take the left side off I can see something. I will take the shop vac and do some clean up in there. Appreciate the info but it will be next week before I get back into it.

Roscommon48 · 03-28-2020, 09:15 AM

sensors don't work, it is a waste of time to worry about them.

**chuckster57** · 03-28-2020, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roscommon48

sensors don't work, it is a waste of time to worry about them.

Yes they do, IF YOU TAKE CARE OF THEM. Not going to argue with anybody, but after YEARS of working on THOUSANDS of different units, I have always been able to make them work..Just sayin

wiredgeorge · 03-28-2020, 12:46 PM

Tank sensors would be helpful if they were reliable. I have two gray and one black tank. The idiot lights for the gray galley and other gray tank work fine. Black tank showed four lights (full) since day one when I bought the camper. I cleaned the tank out with a magic wand a few times and still all red. I then replaced the sensors (thinking crud was causing the circuit to complete) and still four red lights. I then changed the wiring harness for the tank (good ground) and still four red lights. I did resistance checks and all sensors were as they should be. I checked continuity back to the control board in the kitchen. All good. I replaced the control board. Still four red idiot lights. I was just being stubborn as it was never an issue as far as a full tank but I wanted to figure it out and never did. Doesn't make the least bit of difference.

travelin texans · 03-28-2020, 02:49 PM

Every rv I've had they work great til the tanks been filled a couple times then they never change.
The 1st couple RVs I also drove myself nuts trying make them work, finally thought to heck with them, you'll know when they're full.
As to being any where near accurate even if they do work is anybody's guess. I think they should come with a dip stick, definitely be more accurate.

chunker · 03-28-2020, 07:34 PM

The ones on the motorhome worked well but the black tank did occasionally stick in some reading until I did a good flush. I flushed regularly. Ones on the GF's Crusader 5th wheel work pretty good as long as I clean tanks occasionally. 4 tanks.

I put some dish washer detergent, Cascade type, in as that seems to be a good degreaser and wetting agent to dislodge crud from the tank sides.

roadglide · 03-29-2020, 04:35 AM

I took my camper into the dealer for tank gauges they really didn't fix the the problem just told me it was wired wrong. Someone in the shop knew where the valves where because they had cut 3 nice sizes holes for access to the tank valves and some gage wires. I'm thankful for the holes in the coroplast and not having the dreaded nails.

chunker · 03-31-2020, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Yes they do, IF YOU TAKE CARE OF THEM. Not going to argue with anybody, but after YEARS of working on THOUSANDS of different units, I have always been able to make them work..Just sayin

Chuckster57 turns out the sensor for the front gray tank probably works if I could get any water to stay in the tank. I stuck a hose down the toilet and got full readings from the main black tank then put the hose in the bathroom sink. I could hear the water going in from the shower drain. After considerable time no reading on the In Command panel. Shut water off to check to make sure I wasn't filling the belly, all OK then looked at the sewer hose connection. I have full hookups at home and a clear section as 1st out of the tank. Clear water running out into the septic tank. I checked the T handle and closed, pulled open a couple times and it moves too easily. Pulled black tank T handle, more resistance and a gush of water as expected. I had pulled the after pass thru wall to see if I could see the sensors and tried tracing the grey cable into the abyss.

Tanks are not how I expected. I was expecting tanks across the frame but in this case the black is on the right, curb side and grey on the left, street side. I could see where the black cable went to the black tank but not the grey. Valves are on the aft side of the tanks. I'm not sure but it feels like the cable isn't connected to the gate valve and the valve is open.

Any other thoughts or solutions? I could take it back again but I haven't had a chance to use the trailer to see what else needs attention. BUT pretty awkward to take out with an open grey tank. Dealer is closed now so tomorrow I'll check with them and see about just fixing myself. Oh and the other sensors work although they show full pretty quick.

**chuckster57** · 03-31-2020, 04:39 PM

If you take the rear wall of the basement off does it give you and access to look?

chunker · 03-31-2020, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckster57

If you take the rear wall of the basement off does it give you and access to look?

Yes sort of. There is a cut out section of the floor and I can see the left side of the black tank and right side of the grey tank. The gate valve cables go down between the tanks and I can see the black gate valve but not the grey. It appears the grey tank cable does a loop before heading to the left side and out of sight. Cables are stiff and lots of wiring in there too. Gap in the floor is only maybe a foot. I can see the coroplast below the back of the tanks. The only way I see to access the gate valves is from below. Thanks.

EDIT I took off the plastic wall that goes along the wet bay and the 2 carpeted sections either side of the In Command module.

**chuckster57** · 03-31-2020, 05:56 PM

If the coroplast is held in place with self tapping screws, it’s easy to remove enough to have a peek with a flashlight. If it’s riveted in, I would probably take it in. That way the dealer can deal with them. I take them out and then replace with self tapping screws.

chunker · 03-31-2020, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckster57

If the coroplast is held in place with self tapping screws, it’s easy to remove enough to have a peek with a flashlight. If it’s riveted in, I would probably take it in. That way the dealer can deal with them. I take them out and then replace with self tapping screws.

It's mostly riveted except screws are used also to secure the gas line along the left side of the frame.

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