Spare tire blew up! By itself!

[apachewolf]

Originally Posted by Ccmano

Can't say I've ever seen this before. Went to winterize my 2020 Cougar 24SABWE and walked to the back where the spare sits. At first I thought an animal had chewed up the cover. Then noticed tire cords sticking out! Removed the cover and saw the tire (it's brand new, never been on the ground) ruptured from the inside out with tire cords sticking out. My guess is the cord structure was defective and direct sun on the tire with 80psi (cold) in it caused the pressure to build and rupture. Still it shouldn't happen! Glad I didn't have to actually use the spare! So off to the dealer to see what they will do.... should be interesting. ��
Has anyone seen this before?
H

Not the same scenario, but it happened to me too. However the tires were 24 years old and had taken us from Chicago to California, sat in the garage for 6 years on the cargo trailer, than took us on 12 trips from California to Arizona and sat an other 6-7 years in an open sun bathed lot until one day I came by and the tire looked exactly like your. Talked to the lot owner and he said it was not that unusual. But again my tires were MUCH older and had run quite some miles.

By the way they were GoodYear tires 15".

Happy camping.

[blubuckaroo]

I've had this happen, and seen it a few more times, on car hauler trailers, at car shows I attend. It can be quite loud and scary, if you're close by.
It's always been on the spare tire.
It seems to me that since the spare, even with a vinyl cover, is always exposed to the sun. It doesn't get rotated, so the same spot on the tire is always up.

Sunshine does more damage to RV equipment than any other natural exposure.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by apachewolf

Not the same scenario, but it happened to me too. However the tires were 24 years old and had taken us from Chicago to California, sat in the garage for 6 years on the cargo trailer, than took us on 12 trips from California to Arizona and sat an other 6-7 years in an open sun bathed lot until one day I came by and the tire looked exactly like your. Talked to the lot owner and he said it was not that unusual. But again my tires were MUCH older and had run quite some miles.

By the way they were GoodYear tires 15".

Happy camping.

If I send you some cash will you buy me a lottery ticket? 24 yr old tires????? Criss crossing the country??? You must be the luckiest person on earth.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Just another "wild theory":

I've got a Craftsman digital air pressure gauge that has a tiny button to switch between PSI, BAR and kpa. It's easy to accidentally change the setting while holding the gauge on a valve stem.... 80 PSI is 5.5 BAR... If a "multiple scale gauge" had been used AND the scale accidentally changed from PSI to BAR, and the tire inflated to 80 BAR, it would have had around 1100 PSI in it...

It would be "very frightening" to have that happen, and the tire might well have exploded with someone standing in front of it, but.... "is it a possibility" ?????

the wheel would probably fail if you just increased the inflation. Also I think you would not be able to get greater than 150 psi or so unless you have access to industrial air compressor or manage to plumb an air line directly off a "bottle" of compressed air or N2. You can get there but it has to be intentional.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by crk112

I'd be interested in knowing the temp difference under a "dark-colored" or "black" spare tire cover versus a "light-colored" or "white" spare tire cover.



Is it possible the black spare tire cover sitting in the sun every day would cause high enough temperatures to wear out the tire any faster than a white spare tire cover?

Hey I was wondering if anyone would get close to the real cause in this thread. I have a couple of posts on my RV Tire Safety blog that show the effects of sunlight on white vs black tire covers and yes a black cover is not good for the tire but people seem to like the look of a black cover.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Take a look at post #19 in this thread: https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...e+cover&page=2

Gee you take the fun out of me posting. Oh well.


I can tell everyone that I can make a tire do this almost on command under the right circumstances. I had a project a number of years ago and was able to get two new tires to fail within hours of each other after being on "test" for 18 days. This was not a running test but static, just as the spares seen in this and the referenced post.


This fact is why I did an early post (June 16, 2011) on the topic of white covers. Even posted the temperature numbers.


I would not consider the subject tire to be "defective". It certainly did not fail because of the zip code at the tire plant where it was made. The tires in my test above were made in the USA and as part of my study there were tires from different production plants.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by CWtheMan

Very interesting. Look where that tire was built.

B4 = TAURUS HUNGARIAN RUBBER WORKS - BUDAPEST - HUNGARY

I wonder what percentage of recycled carbon black is allowed to be used in the production of new tires in Hungary?

China about 20%. To be fair, Bridgestone uses 20%.

I believe the correct plant code is 1A.
Also the tire should say "Made in xxxxx" on the sidewall

[jasin1]

I was wondering if it was 100% air in it. We used to temp fix low tires with 30 Lb refrigerant bottles Just til we could get it fixed. Also people use starter fluid to seat tires in rims. Probably not the case but I was just wondering

[flybouy]

In my feeble mind I have a difficult time thinking that black tire covers are the causation for a tire rupture like the OP had. I've seen a lot Jeeps and the vast majority that I've seen have a spare tire hanging out the back with a black cover on it. If it was the tire cover in the sun then I'd think all those desert rats running around in the desert south west would have more spare tire blowouts going on than britches blowing out at a chili eating contest in Texas.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by flybouy

In my feeble mind I have a difficult time thinking that black tire covers are the causation for a tire rupture like the OP had. I've seen a lot Jeeps and the vast majority that I've seen have a spare tire hanging out the back with a black cover on it. If it was the tire cover in the sun then I'd think all those desert rats running around in the desert south west would have more spare tire blowouts going on than britches blowing out at a chili eating contest in Texas.

The issue is not the cover but the fact that a tire under a black cover is aging AT LEAST 4 times faster than a tire in use and in shade or under a white cover. Aging (loss of rubber strength) rate doubles with every increase in temperature of 18F
In my simple test on a day with some clouds I measured a +38F . It might be +50 in clear sky full sun which would make the rate 8 times faster so a 4 year old tire might have rubber with the flexibility and strength of 16 to 32 year old tire. The top is going to be hotter than the bottom so there is the reason for all the tires seen with this condition to have the failure on the top.



The reason for the belt separation in the force of Interply Shear that is in all radial tires. I also cover that in my blog or you can Google Interply Shear tire and find links to technical papers.


This is not Magic folks but basic science.


A simple statement of the tire failed because the top was fully exposed to sunlight and overheated by the use of a black cover that also retained the heat in the tire. This literally baked the life out of the tire.


While I have not examined this tire there appears to be a Nylon overlay which can make a tire more resistant to this type of failure but will not completely eliminate the possibility of failure.




RE Jeeps etc that have a tire on the back. Think this could be a strong contributor to any tire failure early in life when you hear them say I checked the air in my tire but I still had a blowout. Wonder how many moved the spare from the back tailgate to a ground tire.

[CWtheMan]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

I believe the correct plant code is 1A.
Also the tire should say "Made in xxxxx" on the sidewall

Okay, that may be true. Can you tell me where the tire size code is with those numbers/letters???? 1AD B4TRT1

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

The issue is not the cover but the fact that a tire under a black cover is aging AT LEAST 4 times faster than a tire in use and in shade or under a white cover. Aging (loss of rubber strength) rate doubles with every increase in temperature of 18F I was going to ignore this but I feel that since you quoted my lighthearted post the remarks are aimed directly at me. So let's talk about this.

I know it's not the cover itself that could cause this. While I'm not a "self proclaimed Tire Expert" I am an educated man. So give me some credit and don't take EVERY word literally.
In my simple test on a day with some clouds I measured a +38F . It might be +50 in clear sky full sun which would make the rate 8 times faster so a 4 year old tire might have rubber with the flexibility and strength of 16 to 32 year old tire. So the OP lives in Nevada and his spare was just under 2 years old. Are you saying that all those people that live in Nevada need to replace their spare tires every year if they have a factory Keystone black cover on it?
The top is going to be hotter than the bottom so there is the reason for all the tires seen with this condition to have the failure on the top.
Yea, more common sense, I understand heat rises.


The reason for the belt separation in the force of Interply Shear that is in all radial tires. I also cover that in my blog or you can Google Interply Shear tire and find links to technical papers. [B][COLOR="darkred"]You seem to reference your "Blog" in nearly every post (I'm talking the body of your p[ost as I see it at the bottom of every post). I hope this is for clarification and not promotion but after a while it's like seeing someone on television constantly saying "I wrote about this very thing in my new book ..."


This is not Magic folks but basic science. I think I have a pretty good grip on basic science so no need for the condescending tone.

A simple statement of the tire failed because the top was fully exposed to sunlight and overheated by the use of a black cover that also retained the heat in the tire. This literally baked the life out of the tire. I agree that this is a "simple statement" Without actually seeing the tire, opr testing the materials and getting a full history of the tire from day of manufacture, it couldn't be a definitive explanation for the causation of the failure.


While I have not examined this tire there appears to be a Nylon overlay which can make a tire more resistant to this type of failure but will not completely eliminate the possibility of failure.




RE Jeeps etc that have a tire on the back. Think this could be a strong contributor to any tire failure early in life when you hear them say I checked the air in my tire but I still had a blowout. Wonder how many moved the spare from the back tailgate to a ground tire.
I couldn't postulate on this as I don't live or frequent the desert. What I can state emphatically from my experience is what I have observed over several decades. I have kept trailers in storage lots for many decades. Many of the RV trailers that I've seen have the spare tire exposed to the sun.I've seen black and white covers. Now I don't know the amount of heat difference is between from the back tailgate to a ground tire.
I couldn't postulate on this as I don't live or frequent the desert. What I can state emphatically from my experience is what I have observed over several decades. I have kept trailers in storage lots for many decades. Many of the RV trailers that I've seen have the spare tire exposed to the sun.I've seen black and white covers. Now I don't know the amount of heat difference is between the 2 colors. And no, I'm not going to go "read about it on your blog", or anyone else's blog. I'm sorry, I just don't find the subject "riveting enough[ to capture my the 2 colors. And no, I'm not going to go "read about it on your blog", or anyone else's blog. I'm sorry, I just don't find the subject "riveting enough[ to capture my attention. Honestly, I don't think it would be interesting to me if I were stuck in a nursing home and the tv set was broke but that's just me. Others may find it a real "page turner". A blog IMHO is a place for "self proclaimed experts" to voice their opinions without being asked. Some can be very informative and instructional and some not so much. I've not visited yours so I don't know how how beneficial it would be.

So, back to my observations. I would look around and observe the other trailers setting on the lot. Sometimes I would look at the tires and think "Jeez those are dry rotted tires on that rig" and my GUESS would be that they weren't spending money on buying a new spare if they were sporting old tires on the axles. Now stating the obvious difference of desert vs mid atlantic I'm just guessing that maybe, just maybe setting in the sun for 20 twenty years might just be equal to setting in the desert for just under 2 years.

Another life observation ... I have driven more miles in the 50+ years of having a drivers license than I care to think about. I've driven cars & trucks, pulled various trailers with great tires, with recapped tires, and with the cheapest tires imaginable. I experienced a high speed blow out on the back of a passenger van in the late 1970's when the radial tires first appeared and issues with belt shifting were prevalent. Years ago when many large trucks were wearing recapped tires the roads would be littered in the summertime with "road gators"(the failed tire carcass). Don't see that so much anymore. Seems to me like the tire manufacturers have come a long way since the Ford/Firestone issues of years ago. I think the trailer tire manufacturers have been "behind the curve" in their advancements. Again, this is my opinions and observations falling back on common sense deductions.

My comments are in red above.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by CWtheMan

Okay, that may be true. Can you tell me where the tire size code is with those numbers/letters???? 1AD B4TRT1

Tire size code would normally be character 3 &4 not the size code is not universal so an AB from one company may be a different size than an AB from a different company.
The plant code is universal but again there have been some updates as amny plants have closed. Some decaded ago so a newer list has been published.


This site may be a good one to use
http://www.tiresafetygroup.com/tire-...ed-plant-code/


Here is more info on the DOT code
https://www.tirebusiness.com/article...daily-20180220

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by flybouy

My comments are in red above.

Thanks for the comments and observations. Just a couple of my own.


Yes I do reference my blog. With over 400 posts on tires, valves and related topics I find that even with that information out there on the web many people still claim "I have looked everywhere and can't find the answer to my question"


I suppose I could simply do a cut & paste of my posting but sometimes the topic is more technical than many want so I usually try to offer a short summary. Conversely there are those who have decided they aren't interested in my information so why should I fill up this forum with a couple hundred pages of information. I did respond to complaints of providing hot links to the information on my blog but was told that was not allowed. So I started to copy and paste the information but that got me kicked off that forum as there was apparently too much information for the moderators.


I do have a couple of specific comments.
Yes heat rises but the heat from direct exposure to Sunlight is what heats to top of the tire. Both rubber and air are good insulators so there is not a lot of heat transfer from the area heated by the Sun and other areas of the tire.


Wondering how I should reply to statements / questions about the color of the tire cover. If I simply say black is hotter will everyone be satisfied or will the follow up question be "How hot".


How would you explain the chemical reaction rate due to temperature in a sentence of 20 words or less that would be accepted by all readers?


One reason for the variation in failure rate is the variation in the level of Interply Shear due to inflation levels.


So are we good?

[CWtheMan]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

Tire size code would normally be character 3 &4 not the size code is not universal so an AB from one company may be a different size than an AB from a different company.
The plant code is universal but again there have been some updates as amny plants have closed. Some decaded ago so a newer list has been published.


This site may be a good one to use
http://www.tiresafetygroup.com/tire-...ed-plant-code/


Here is more info on the DOT code
https://www.tirebusiness.com/article...daily-20180220

I was using the chart below which says the size codes are standardized.

https://tire-information-world.com/tire-size/

Excerpt from 49 CFR 574.5

(1) First grouping. The plant code, consisting of two symbols, must be the first group of the TIN. The plant code represents the identity of the new tire manufacturer and was previously assigned to the manufacturer by NHTSA.

(2) Second grouping. For new tires, the second group, consisting of no more than two symbols, must be used to identify the tire size. For a non-pneumatic tire or non-pneumatic tire assembly, the second group, consisting of no more than two symbols, must be used to identify the non-pneumatic tire identification code. For retreaded tires, the second group, consisting of no more than two symbols, must identify the retread matrix in which the tire was processed or a tire size code if a matrix was not used to process the retreaded tire. Each new tire manufacturer and retreader must maintain a record of each symbol used, with the corresponding matrix or tire size, which it must provide to NHTSA upon request.

(3) Third grouping. The third group, consisting of no more than four symbols, may be used at the option of the manufacturer or retreader as a descriptive code for the purpose of identifying significant characteristics of the tire. However, if the tire is manufactured for a brand name owner, one of the functions of the third grouping must be to identify the brand name owner. Each manufacturer or retreader who uses the third grouping must maintain a detailed record of any descriptive brand name owner code used, which it must provide to NHTSA upon request.

(4) Fourth grouping. The date code, consisting of four numerical symbols, is the final group. The date code must identify the week and year of manufacture. The first and second symbols of the date code must identify the week of the year by using “01” for the first full calendar week in each year, “02” for the second full calendar week, and so on. The calendar week runs from Sunday through the following Saturday. The final week of each year may include no more than six days of the following year. The third and fourth symbols of the date code must identify the last two digits of the year of manufacture. For example, 0109 means the tire was manufactured in the first full calendar week of 2009, or the week beginning on Sunday, January 4, 2009, and ending on Saturday, January 10, 2009. The date code must be positioned as shown in Figures 1 or 2 for new tires and retreaded tires, respectively

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by CWtheMan

I was using the chart below which says the size codes are standardized.

https://tire-information-world.com/tire-size/

Excerpt from 49 CFR 574.5

(1) First grouping. The plant code, consisting of two symbols, must be the first group of the TIN. The plant code represents the identity of the new tire manufacturer and was previously assigned to the manufacturer by NHTSA.

(2) Second grouping. For new tires, the second group, consisting of no more than two symbols, must be used to identify the tire size. For a non-pneumatic tire or non-pneumatic tire assembly, the second group, consisting of no more than two symbols, must be used to identify the non-pneumatic tire identification code. For retreaded tires, the second group, consisting of no more than two symbols, must identify the retread matrix in which the tire was processed or a tire size code if a matrix was not used to process the retreaded tire. Each new tire manufacturer and retreader must maintain a record of each symbol used, with the corresponding matrix or tire size, which it must provide to NHTSA upon request.

(3) Third grouping. The third group, consisting of no more than four symbols, may be used at the option of the manufacturer or retreader as a descriptive code for the purpose of identifying significant characteristics of the tire. However, if the tire is manufactured for a brand name owner, one of the functions of the third grouping must be to identify the brand name owner. Each manufacturer or retreader who uses the third grouping must maintain a detailed record of any descriptive brand name owner code used, which it must provide to NHTSA upon request.

(4) Fourth grouping. The date code, consisting of four numerical symbols, is the final group. The date code must identify the week and year of manufacture. The first and second symbols of the date code must identify the week of the year by using “01” for the first full calendar week in each year, “02” for the second full calendar week, and so on. The calendar week runs from Sunday through the following Saturday. The final week of each year may include no more than six days of the following year. The third and fourth symbols of the date code must identify the last two digits of the year of manufacture. For example, 0109 means the tire was manufactured in the first full calendar week of 2009, or the week beginning on Sunday, January 4, 2009, and ending on Saturday, January 10, 2009. The date code must be positioned as shown in Figures 1 or 2 for new tires and retreaded tires, respectively

Yes the size code is "standardized" by each tire company but not "standardized" by NHTSA. These are the details I had to live under for years.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by flybouy

My comments are in red above.

Marshall, My brain blew up about a page previous. I feel I am going through the 2020 version of Gulliver's Travels where the Lilliput folks are at war over which end of the egg to crack. The word "tire" in a thread title always takes this path.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

Marshall, My brain blew up about a page previous. I feel I am going through the 2020 version of Gulliver's Travels where the Lilliput folks are at war over which end of the egg to crack. The word "tire" in a thread title always takes this path.

I think we just discovered a non chemical cure for insomnia! seems to me about 1/2 thru evet "tire" post we get a doctoral thesis on what happened, why it happened, an why it isn't the tire industries fualt.

It does make for some bedtime reading that will put me to sleep faster than a Hot Toddy however. JMHO YMMV

[Ccmano]

So here's an update. The tire distributor Customer Service dept rep responded to my email inquiry within a day. We also spoke over the phone. They requested a description of what happened, photos and all the codes off the tire. The matter was then turned over to their product liability department. Nothing was heard for a week until I contacted Customer Service again. Product Liability emailed the next day. I provided them with more information via email. On Nov.6th they advised me that the matter had been turned over to the tire mfg. "Dynamic Corp". Nothing since. I plan to follow up tomorrow. I suspect I see where this is going. It's just a question of whether it's worth the fight.

The technical explanation as to why this happened is totally irrelevant to me. As a consumer product it should reasonably fulfill its intended use. It failed to do so within a year of its manufacture and within six months of its purchase. Tire manufacturers and RV companies are fully aware how (in this case) a spare tire is mounted and covered. So either the tire manufacturer provided a defective tire or the tire was not intended to be mounted as a spare in this way by the RV Mfg. Assuming any thought whatsoever went into the process in the first place.

The warranty of this item, given this failure, falls under the Uniform Commercial Code (Implied Warranty for Fitness of Use) We'll see where this goes.

More to follow...
H

[Sarge2]

:wh istling: