Cougar vs Premier vs Outback Ultra-Lite

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by jxnbbl

Out of curiosity RE: payload stickers...


Our RAM 2500 Cummins diesel has some obscene "towing capacity", but as stated here the payload is only something like 2100 on the sticker. (engine plays a part here) It was the main reason we didn't get a small 5th wheel this month. I think the only one that would make the grade was a Grand Design 27 footer.



Anyways "due to availability" when we bought the truck it came with the factory option of a 5th wheel hitch. So the question....is that hitch built into the sticker payload calculation?

If it’s on the factory sticker..the original actual sticker (not a dealer added addendum 2nd sticker) then I’d say it’s included. The factory sticker is basically a build sheet and all the options are taken into account when they reach the actually payload. Yours would probably be close to 2300 lbs without the hitch

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by jxnbbl

Out of curiosity RE: payload stickers...


Our RAM 2500 Cummins diesel has some obscene "towing capacity", but as stated here the payload is only something like 2100 on the sticker. (engine plays a part here) It was the main reason we didn't get a small 5th wheel this month. I think the only one that would make the grade was a Grand Design 27 footer.



Anyways "due to availability" when we bought the truck it came with the factory option of a 5th wheel hitch. So the question....is that hitch built into the sticker payload calculation?

Just to clarify; your truck came with the optional 5th wheel prep package in the bed OR the actual hitch along with the mounting apparatus? Whichever one it was that was included in the OEM build sheet it would be included in the payload listed on the door. If however it came with the prep package only an added hitch would then be deducted from the available payload on the door.

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by jxnbbl

Out of curiosity RE: payload stickers...


Our RAM 2500 Cummins diesel has some obscene "towing capacity", but as stated here the payload is only something like 2100 on the sticker. (engine plays a part here) It was the main reason we didn't get a small 5th wheel this month. I think the only one that would make the grade was a Grand Design 27 footer.



Anyways "due to availability" when we bought the truck it came with the factory option of a 5th wheel hitch. So the question....is that hitch built into the sticker payload calculation?

That "obscene towing capacity" with "only XXXX payload" are the numbers that get lots of folks into something more than they can safely handle.
Because it can "tow" that obscene amount doesn't mean it can "carry" the associated pin/tongue weight of that obscene amount & I'll assure you that if, by some remote chance, your dealer knew the difference he's not about to tell you & miss a sale.

[jxnbbl]

Last few...


I fully understand payload and as I stated, it is the primary reason I stuck with a trailer instead of a 5th wheel.



Yes, it is on the sticker listed before the "destination charge" - 20,000 lb Direct-mount 5th-wheel hitch $1,075...is has sat in my garage since delivery as when/if I go the 5th wheel route I would upgrade to basically the same truck but 3500. Its good to know I can take myself out of my payload calculation!



Or it will be sold along my 30A progressive EMS and 30A extension cord due to 50A service with my new trailer.

[JRTJH]

Regardless of what's "supposed to be included on a yellow sticker" or "what may/may not be included on the yellow sticker", IMHO, it always benefits a truck owner to drive across a scale to see the relationship between the assembly line's computer calculations (that's how the yellow sticker is calculated) and what a certified scale says the vehicle weighs.

Most people are surprised when they look at a weigh ticket and subtract that from the GVWR to calculate their "real world payload". Seldom, if ever, does a yellow sticker reflect accurately what a weigh slip reveals.

That set of tie down straps, the bungee cords, the maps, the spare fuses in the glove compartment, the TPMS, that roll of paper towels, the bottle of diesel fuel conditioner, the change in the console, the registration and insurance card...

You get the idea. Everything we "add to the truck that doesn't weigh much" all does add up to much more than most of us realize. A $12 trip across a CAT scale is, for almost everyone, an "eye-opener"....

[machz]

Originally Posted by RLundin

Thanks everyone for their feedback. I was mainly looking for feedback on trailer comparisons. I will be getting a new truck that supports what ever trailer I select. I "hope" to stay with a 1/2 ton, but will go up to 3/4 ton if necessary.

The Cougar that we seem to really like is the Cougar 22MLS that provides both theater seating and booth in a 26ft trailer. The layout is very similar to the Grand Design Imagine XLS 22MLE.

I own a 22MLS and I do tow it with a 1/2 f150. I'm not going to get into the 1/2 ton debate but I will say I just ran from NH to FL over the blue ridge mountains in the wind and surrounded by tractor trailers and bumper to bumper traffic going 50+ near Washington DC and it performed perfectly. I run an equalizer4 WDH and I'm within all of my numbers but close to my payload max(Cat scale not a guess). It's just my wife and I and we don't put anything in the truck but us and the storage limits what we can bring in the trailer.


That aside we absolutely love the RV. The size is perfect for the two of us and the layout works perfect as well. I have the residential fridge that stayed ice cold for 15+ hours on the battery as we were on the road. We changed out the mattress and the rv king is a great size. I really can't think of any negatives for us with the 22MLS.

[gregrc75]

Have you decided on a trailer? I was hoping to get some opinions on Cougar vs Premier because that is what I am debating right now as well.
Been a happy Premier owner but thinking of "stepping up" to a Cougar for the heavier axles and bigger tires. But not sure that is a better choice than the Premier (with opposing slides) I am considering with more floor space since we have 2 labs.
22 Premier 25RK vs 22 Cougar 25RDS.

[RVfan58]

Some unfortunate misinformation in this thread. Your truck's Payload capacity has very little to do with the Tow Capacity and is not really part or only a small part of the calculation (more if we're talking 5th wheel). There are many factors that go into an ACCURATE Tow Capacity calculation and they are not all on the inside of your door frame.


While there are websites that you can visit that may give you a ballpark, the single best approach is to call your dealer's service department with your VIN# and they should always be able to give you the actual factory rated tow capacity.


And for example, any given model of F-150 is produced in a range of tow capacities. So you need to find out the VIN specific tow capacity for your vehicle.


Once you know that, the best heuristic is to subtract 1500lbs from your tow capacity and that represents the maximum recommended dry or unloaded weight for your selected trailer. You can make it less, but at the risk of your suspension and drive train.


And if you think you might be working your suspension too hard, a very inexpensive improvement that will take a chunk of the load off is too install an airbag kit.


Hope that helps some folks.

[RVfan58]

Originally Posted by gregrc75

Have you decided on a trailer? I was hoping to get some opinions on Cougar vs Premier because that is what I am debating right now as well.
Been a happy Premier owner but thinking of "stepping up" to a Cougar for the heavier axles and bigger tires. But not sure that is a better choice than the Premier (with opposing slides) I am considering with more floor space since we have 2 labs.
22 Premier 25RK vs 22 Cougar 25RDS.

Don't own either but know that you can't go wrong with either choice. Both are really well made vehicles with exceptional features. Choose the decor, style and floor plan that suits you best.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by RVfan58

Some unfortunate misinformation in this thread. Your truck's Payload capacity has very little to do with the Tow Capacity and is not really part or only a small part of the calculation (more if we're talking 5th wheel). There are many factors that go into an ACCURATE Tow Capacity calculation and they are not all on the inside of your door frame.


While there are websites that you can visit that may give you a ballpark, the single best approach is to call your dealer's service department with your VIN# and they should always be able to give you the actual factory rated tow capacity.


And for example, any given model of F-150 is produced in a range of tow capacities. So you need to find out the VIN specific tow capacity for your vehicle.


Once you know that, the best heuristic is to subtract 1500lbs from your tow capacity and that represents the maximum recommended dry or unloaded weight for your selected trailer. You can make it less, but at the risk of your suspension and drive train.


And if you think you might be working your suspension too hard, a very inexpensive improvement that will take a chunk of the load off is too install an airbag kit.


Hope that helps some folks.

I'm sorry but this is exactly the sort of misinformation that gets folks into a potetial dangerous overloaded condition. Lets define the terms.

Towing capacity - this is how much theoretical weight the vehichle can PULL. They use a trailer loaded with weights at a low center of gravity with little tongue weight. Rarely does this number get exceeded first.

Load capacity - this is how much weight the truck can CARRY. This number is typically the FIRST to be exceeded when towing campers. Both the tow capacity and load capacity can be limited by a hitch that's rated at a lower capacity.

There are 2 axle weight capacities, front gaw and rear gaw that limit how much weight each individual axle can CARRY. Then there's the gvw the gross weight the tow vehichle itself can weigh and the gcvw or gross combined vehichle weight.

ALL of these numbers are important and NON OF THEM should be exceeded.

[wiredgeorge]

New guy comes on and immediately tells folks payload is just some number and the VIN in the hands of a dealer will give you tow capacity (even if the truck is greatly overloaded and hence liable for legal issues in the event of a wreck).

The RVfan tossed his bait into the pond and guess who nibbled and took it? Bwhahahaha

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by RVfan58

Some unfortunate misinformation in this thread. Your truck's Payload capacity has very little to do with the Tow Capacity and is not really part or only a small part of the calculation (more if we're talking 5th wheel). There are many factors that go into an ACCURATE Tow Capacity calculation and they are not all on the inside of your door frame.


While there are websites that you can visit that may give you a ballpark, the single best approach is to call your dealer's service department with your VIN# and they should always be able to give you the actual factory rated tow capacity.


And for example, any given model of F-150 is produced in a range of tow capacities. So you need to find out the VIN specific tow capacity for your vehicle.


Once you know that, the best heuristic is to subtract 1500lbs from your tow capacity and that represents the maximum recommended dry or unloaded weight for your selected trailer. You can make it less, but at the risk of your suspension and drive train.


And if you think you might be working your suspension too hard, a very inexpensive improvement that will take a chunk of the load off is too install an airbag kit.


Hope that helps some folks.

Unfortunately this post is filled with inaccurate "misinformation". Very little if any is accurate and fails to even mention the more important aspects of towing safely weight wise. What are you pulling that Jayco with, that might shed some light on your oversights?

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by RVfan58

Some unfortunate misinformation in this thread. Your truck's Payload capacity has very little to do with the Tow Capacity and is not really part or only a small part of the calculation (more if we're talking 5th wheel). There are many factors that go into an ACCURATE Tow Capacity calculation and they are not all on the inside of your door frame.


While there are websites that you can visit that may give you a ballpark, the single best approach is to call your dealer's service department with your VIN# and they should always be able to give you the actual factory rated tow capacity.


And for example, any given model of F-150 is produced in a range of tow capacities. So you need to find out the VIN specific tow capacity for your vehicle.


Once you know that, the best heuristic is to subtract 1500lbs from your tow capacity and that represents the maximum recommended dry or unloaded weight for your selected trailer. You can make it less, but at the risk of your suspension and drive train.


And if you think you might be working your suspension too hard, a very inexpensive improvement that will take a chunk of the load off is too install an airbag kit.


Hope that helps some folks.

Must be a rv or truck salesman!
Sounds just like the same spiel of inaccurate information they give to new rv owners that get most of them in an overloaded situation!
In the real rv world the "tow capacities" of trucks & "dry" rv weights are ABSOLUTELY useless. The payload, whether from the door post or calculated from scales, will be exceeded long before safely "towing" that exaggravated tow weight truck manufacturers brag about.
In order to get a ballpark weight use the payload on the yellow/white tag on the trucks door jamb compared to the appropriate percentage of tongue or pin weight of the chosen rvs GVWR posted on the manufacturers tag on the driver's side front corner.
DO NOT use advertised or online numbers & especially anything concerning weights from a rv or truck salesman. The published numbers are usually very low & salespeople are there to sell whether they know better or not.
And just for record, airbags add ABSOLUTELY no increase in load carrying capacity. They are however a good add-on to level your truck &/or improve loaded ride, but the weight of that equipment comes off the payload.

[gregrc75]

Originally Posted by RVfan58

Don't own either but know that you can't go wrong with either choice. Both are really well made vehicles with exceptional features. Choose the decor, style and floor plan that suits you best.

Thanks! I did go with the Cougar. Happy so far!

[RLundin]

Sorry for the debate about 1/2 ton vs 3/4 ton trucks and how to measure carrying capacity and two capacity. I was only asking about Cougar vs Premier vs Outback travel trailers.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by RLundin

Sorry for the debate about 1/2 ton vs 3/4 ton trucks and how to measure carrying capacity and two capacity. I was only asking about Cougar vs Premier vs Outback travel trailers.

You asked in the context where payload was the key point folks commented on. Others jumped in with some not so good tips and others corrected those giving dangerous or incorrect advice. Hope you picked out the camper you are to purchase!

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by RLundin

Sorry for the debate about 1/2 ton vs 3/4 ton trucks and how to measure carrying capacity and two capacity. I was only asking about Cougar vs Premier vs Outback travel trailers.

The "debate" happens constantly so no need to worry. The door was opened by asking about what trailer fits with a "1/2 ton truck" which then has to be quantified since no numbers were given and the truck was left open ended. No big deal. Hopefully you got, or can get, the info you were looking for on the trailers and get a truck to properly match your choice.