Alert for all California RV'ers - Page 2

smiller · 09-07-2012, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hankaye

Don't know what type of RV you have but mine is comprised of 2 units, a tow vehicle (pick-up truck), and a towed vehicle (RV). That would indicate to me that it is a combination of sorts. However, when looking over the list of Codes and Descriptions, Code 2. one see's that when registered as a passenger vehicle are grouped into Group 3.
However, Folks with a DRW pick-up need to read carefully here,
"Two-Axle, Six-Tire, Single-Unit Trucks: All vehicles on a single frame including trucks, camping and recreational vehicles, motor homes, etc., having two axles and dual rear wheels.", are Group 5. Subtile differences that the
Barney Fifes of this world thrive on.......

Yes, a truck and trailer does seem contrary to use of the word 'single' but as written that is how a pickup truck and personal RV seems to be considered. And in fact in most of the threads I could find on the subject the participants seemed quite adamant that in Texas the noncommercial Class A requirement when towing is for a combined GVWR over 26,000 lbs., truck and trailer. But I'm not a lawyer and not absolutely certain which is correct, nor do I know how to find out for sure. One could say 'call the DMV' but when it comes to arcane matters like this it seems that 'someone at the DMV' is likely to be the least informed, or at least that has been my experience.

And the part about 'two axles, four wheels' is indeed interesting. Is a SRW pickup truck and an RV considered a single unit vehicle but not if the pickup is a dualie? It's not Barney Fife I'm worried about, it's Perry Mason. As Firecapt pointed out in the original post, being on the wrong end of this could get you in a place you don't want to be.

jsmith948 · 09-08-2012, 04:07 AM

An interesting topic of discussion I really like this forum and always enjoy the lively exchange of opinions and ideas.
I guess it would be safe to say that no one likes Orwellian government regulations. However, the license requirements referenced by the OP came about in an effort to ensure that individuals operating very large and heavy RVs on the public highways have at least the minimum knowledge necessary to be able to safely get down the highway!
We've all seen the individual that comes into camp or the fuel stop and it is obvious that he has no business driving a rig of that size. There have been numerous accidents and many fatalities on California's highways involving large vehicles that can be attributed to a lack of experience and/or knowledge on the part of the operator. "Just saying"

JMHO - FWIW

Javi · 09-08-2012, 04:31 AM

I base this on the highlighted below... for instance My ¾ ton pickup is rated at 10,000 GVWR but if I were pulling a 16,100 lb GVWR trailer I would need a Class A...

I'm pretty sure (although I've been wrong before) that you must have a Class A to pull a trailer that has a GVWR of more than 10,000 lbs.. in Texas and I'd suggest that anyone not having a Class A and currently pulling or planning to pull such a trailer had better contact the local DPS office for clarification of this requirement...

Fortunately my current trailer falls short of that GVWR and so I'm not required... but I think I'm still going to email the DPS headquarters in Austin and ask...

SUBCHAPTER D. CLASSIFICATION OF DRIVER'S LICENSESSec. 521.081.

CLASS A LICENSE. A Class A driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate: (1) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more; or(2) a combination of vehicles that has a gross combination weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, if the gross vehicle weight rating of any vehicle or vehicles in tow is more than 10,000 pounds.
Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.

Sec. 521.082. CLASS B LICENSE. (a) A Class B driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate: (1) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating that is more than 26,000 pounds;(2) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,000 pounds or more towing: (A) a vehicle, other than a farm trailer, with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 10,000 pounds; or(B) a farm trailer with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 20,000 pounds; and(3) a bus with a seating capacity of 24 passengers or more.(b) For the purposes of Subsection (a)(3), seating capacity is computed in accordance with Section 502.162, except that the operator's seat is included in the computation.
Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.

Sec. 521.083. CLASS C LICENSE. A Class C driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate: (1) a vehicle or combination of vehicles not described by Section 521.081 or 521.082; and(2) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of less than 26,001 pounds towing a farm trailer with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 20,000 pounds.
Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.

Ref... http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.u...htm/TN.521.htm

smiller · 09-08-2012, 08:23 AM

Thank you for finding the actual text of the law, that makes it clearer. But the question is not what a Class A allows, it is what a Class C license allows (since that is what we have), and you need to read the entire section more carefully. To explain again:

A Class C license allows 'a vehicle or combination of vehicles not described by Section 521.081 or 521.082' (Class A or Class B).

So, Class A describes:

1. 'a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more'

That does not describe my rig (a 9,000 lb. tow and a 12,000 lb. trailer.)

2. 'a combination of vehicles that has a gross combination weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, if the gross vehicle weight rating of any vehicle or vehicles in tow is more than 10,000 pounds.'

The GVWR of my trailer is 12,000 lbs. so the first part of the sentence applies, but my combination of vehicles does not have a gross combination weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, so the section does not apply.

My vehicle combination is not described in 521.081 or 521.082 so a Class C license is adequate.

Read it again and think about it. And I guess we can dispense with any 'single unit vehicle' debates because apparently the actual statute doesn't even mention it.

Javi · 09-08-2012, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smiller

Thank you for finding the actual text of the law, that makes it clearer. But the question is not what a Class A allows, it is what a Class C license allows (since that is what we have), and you need to read the entire section more carefully. To explain again:

A Class C license allows 'a vehicle or combination of vehicles not described by Section 521.081 or 521.082' (Class A or Class B).

So, Class A describes:

1. 'a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more'

That does not describe my rig (a 9,000 lb. tow and a 12,000 lb. trailer.)

2. 'a combination of vehicles that has a gross combination weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, if the gross vehicle weight rating of any vehicle or vehicles in tow is more than 10,000 pounds.'

The GVWR of my trailer is 12,000 lbs. so the first part of the sentence applies, but my combination of vehicles does not have a gross combination weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, so the section does not apply.

My vehicle combination is not described in 521.081 or 521.082 so a Class C license is adequate.

Read it again and think about it. And I guess we can dispense with any 'single unit vehicle' debates because apparently the actual statute doesn't even mention it.

Like I said... it doesn't describe mine either... Although it could, if I went with a large 5’er since my 250 is rated at 10K and to pull up to 16,100…. it wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility for someone to be driving a 350 and pulling a trailer that would put them over and never even consider the fact that they are illegal…

smiller · 09-08-2012, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Javi

Like I said... it doesn't describe mine either... Although it could, if I went with a large 5’er since my 250 is rated at 10K and to pull up to 16,100…. it wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility for someone to be driving a 350 and pulling a trailer that would put them over and never even consider the fact that they are illegal…

Sure, absolutely. As I said a while back some of the larger 5th wheel/tow vehicle combinations could put you over the 26,001 lb. limit. I was only pointing out that a trailer of over 10,000 lbs. in itself does not necessarily require a Class A (in Texas that is, per the OP you apparently do need an endorsement in California.)

randy69 · 09-08-2012, 11:22 AM

I was born and raised in califorina I'm now 60 and in the last 25 years the petty laws and over taxes are the reason why people and business are getting out. If your poor, The state supports you. If your rich nothing to worry about. Unfortunately I'm middle class. It's like living in foreign country.

SAD · 09-08-2012, 11:51 AM

My Dodge dually and my Avalanche would require a non-commercial class A if I lived in Texas. I'm glad I live in OK. :-)

hoffbrew · 09-10-2012, 02:04 PM

ok... I have a DMV Commercial Test Station right across the street from my business so I walked over there .... I need a Class A non-commercial do to my 5er being over 15,000 lbs. Written test and driving test performed in there facility. My dads trailer is 12,700 lbs and is not for hire so he needs nothing. This info is from a person at the test station. I spent an hour over there double checking everything needed

hoffbrew · 09-10-2012, 02:07 PM

DMV goes by the posted GVWR sticker

Firecapt · 09-10-2012, 02:18 PM

All I can cite is my original post and this link to the California DMV website that states the legal requirements.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/dl648/dl648pt5.htm

When I went into DMV to get my endorsement (after my 5er purchase), at first they told me the same thing. Having read about this for years on other RV forums I had a copy of the regulation & the Recreational Vehicle Handbook (link in my original post).

The guy said he had never heard of this and got the head supervisor for the facility. The supervisor didn't know what I was talking about either and off they went to "call Sacramento HQ". When they returned, they said that I was right but they didn't have the tests or paperwork and were having everything faxed over.

About 1 1/2 hours later, I had taken my tests, paid my fees, and walked out with my endorsement.

This was exactly as described by other RVer's on other websites over the years. That's why I went in prepared with their own booklet & regulation in hand.

smiller · 09-10-2012, 02:20 PM

Was there a driving test? If so what did it consist of?

hoffbrew · 09-10-2012, 03:15 PM

This is what was presented to me

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/dl648/dl648pt2.htm

smiller · 09-10-2012, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smiller

Was there a driving test? If so what did it consist of?

Nevermind... I just saw this in the link you posted:

"You are not required to take a pre-trip, skills, or driving test to add a Recreational Trailer endorsement to your current license."

hoffbrew · 09-10-2012, 03:20 PM

I am bringing my rig to work and going over to them for the test, some paperwork and some studying first though! I will let you know how it all goes.

Murray0512 · 09-14-2012, 03:29 PM

I was going to let my cdl class a expire next year when I retired I ll have to think twice about that now thanks for the infro
Danny

JeffS · 09-15-2012, 05:40 PM

Michigan has a Special Endorsement for Triple Towing

If you pull a recreational trailer such as a boat trailer, cargo trailer or flat-bed trailer for hauling all-terrain vehicles behind a fifth-wheel trailer, you are required to obtain a special endorsement for your license. This "R" or recreational double-endorsement is available to drivers at least 18 years old from a branch office of the Michigan Secretary of State. Drivers must pass a test and pay a nominal fee.

This only applies to recreational vehicle drivers. A commercial driver who has obtained an endorsement to drive a double trailer is not required to have the "R."

CPE · 09-19-2012, 02:25 PM

I HOPE this is not a repeat, but PA requires a non- commercial cdl license when towing a trailer and vehicle whose combined gvwr( tow vehicle+trailer) exceeds 26,000 pounds. This is from the PA vehicle code .
A truck dealer here told me of a similar thing here where driver was involved in an accident and did not have this endorsement and was not paid for his vehicle because of not having a valid drivers license.

stormy2000 · 09-19-2012, 07:14 PM

does the CA law apply if your visiting from out of state? we're first time RV'ing and from FL but looking to do some traveling, never thought about the rules/laws of the other states in regards to towing.

bill & jodi

Firecapt · 09-19-2012, 07:17 PM

California, like all states, has what are called "reciprocal agreements" with all other states.

What this means for you is that as long as you are properly licensed to drive/tow in your home state, you are legal to drive/tow in other states, including California.

Come on out for a visit, we'd love to have you

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