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Old 08-06-2013, 06:55 PM   #1
c2gerhardt
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Tire Tread separation on Toy Hauler

We had a complete tire failure that resulted in tread separation on a Carlisle Tire. We have Carlisle Radial Trail ST235/80R16. Tire pressure is checked ever trip and was inflated to 80psi. The tires only have about 8000 miles on them. We had a moderate load in the toy hauler. We have a 2011 Fuzion 360.

Anybody have any advise on what replacement tires to get or best approach to take for repairing sheet metal? It really did a job on the left side. See attached pic.

Thinking about claiming it on insurance, but the Keystone RV dealer takes months to repair anything. Very frustrating...
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Old 08-06-2013, 07:33 PM   #2
BeerCan
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Sorry that tire tore up your trailer.
I have the Sailun S637 on my Fuzion 310 and I have been happy with them so far. http://gosailun.com/Tires/Sailun/All%20Position/335

Another good choice but more expensive is the GoodYear G614 http://www.goodyear.com/cfmx/web/tru...rodline=160007

Check to make sure you wheel can handle the 110 psi these tires require. My Fuzion wheels were stamped on the backside and I was able to see the rating without removing the tire.

If you need new wheels then I would move to 17.5" Many people like this dealer http://www.trailertiresandwheels.com/ I personally have never used them.
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Old 08-07-2013, 12:00 AM   #3
jadatis
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These ST tires have a maximum load of about 15% more then an 235/85R16 LT tire, I searched for once and calculated for 80 psi pressure needed for the maximum load.

This is because of the more deflection they suppose to are allowed wich gives more surface on the ground so more load to carry with same pressure.

Thats the Theory, but in practice its better to give them the same deflection as a LT tire would have . This can be done with higher pressure , but you think the 80psi to be the maximum of the tire, like it is also for a standardload personscar tire.
But they print the maximum pressure ( further Pmax) on a Standload and also on a XL/Extraload/reinforced-tire ( different names for same kind of tire) and this is not the pressure they need for the maximum load up to 99m/h and no camber-angle. Normal car tire this pressure called the reference-pressure (further Pr) is 35psi for American tires and for XL// 41 psi . Difference between Pr and Pmax is used for higher speed and camber-angle above 2.

From C-load tires ( yours are 80 psi so E-load) they print something like this on the sidewall of the tire "maximum load xxxx lbs AT yyy psi(cold).
Then this yyy is the Pr and not the Pmax. So its allowed to go over that.
Found European article of Semperit( continental) in wich when standing still , the tire is allowed to carry 2 times the maximum load AT 1.4 times the Pr, so concluded that Pmax = 1.4 X Pr.

Even found an American article in wich is sayd that American TRA allows 10 psi above Pr for more load for LT tire, and better riding quality. For truck tires its even 20 psi. And for verry low speed even more load to carry then Pmax. here the article of goodyear with at botom page 1 and page 2 about that extra allowed. For ST I also found this 10psi higher but cant find it anymore , and it is for higher then 65m/h up to 75m/h and beter riding quality.
http://www.goodyear.com/truck/pdf/edb_loads.pdf

What can you do with this information.
If your valves can stand it, you can put 90psi in the same kind of tire when they are new , and probably this is enaugh to give the tire less deflection , so the treath wont come loose from it by to much bending of the sidewall. Because this is what happened at your tire.
together with some loadshifting to lighten up the side of the damaged tire, is probably also needed.

You can calculate a save pressure with my Traveltrailer-tirepressurecalculator, to be found in next map on my public map of skydrive wich belongs to my hotmail adress with same username as here.
https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=a526e...E092E6DC%21348
To use a spreadsheet first download it by RIGHTCLICKING on it, then choose download from the dropdownbox. Not use the top 2 things or leftclick , first cant handle things I used in my spreadsheets, and second asks you to log in with your hotmail adres and password.
After download and eventual viruscheck ( you never know what those Dutch put in to it) it is opened in Excell or Open office CALC if you leftclick on the downloaded document.
Or you give the details , and I will do it for you with a picture of the filled in spreadsheet in my anwering post.

Best always is to weigh per side beter even, but in absence of that we have to do with the GVWR ( gross vehicle weight rating).

Hope this information helps you at your decicion for the new tires
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Old 08-07-2013, 03:43 PM   #4
c2gerhardt
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thanks for the info

beercan: what kind of wheels/tires came on your 310? I looked on the back of mine but there were only code stamps on back
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Old 08-07-2013, 04:34 PM   #5
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Maxxis seems to be popular.
http://www.maxxis.com/Industrial/Tra...ST-Radial.aspx
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Old 08-07-2013, 06:39 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c2gerhardt View Post
thanks for the info

beercan: what kind of wheels/tires came on your 310? I looked on the back of mine but there were only code stamps on back
Mine look like this
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Old 08-08-2013, 03:57 AM   #7
c2gerhardt
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I have Series 06 wheels. I sent them a message asking for more information. They have two 8bolt wheels. One rated at 3200lbs/85psi and the other at 3920lbs/110psi. I would assume it is the 3920lb wheel since the Carlisles are rated at 3420, but never assume. I will post when I find out. Thanks again.
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Old 08-08-2013, 05:32 AM   #8
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I just put Maxxis 10 ply tires on my trailer. I havn't had them long enough to see how they are going to hold up yet. I bought them because it was the biggest load rating I could find and they are made in Asia, but not China. I bought them through Discount Tire.
My understanding is that all ST tires but these are made in China. I could be wrong.
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Old 08-08-2013, 06:11 PM   #9
KenBob
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We have a 2011 360 and put 17.5 GY G114 before the first trip. Had issues with Carlisles in the past and the money spent on the new tires is a small price to pay for peace of mind and preventing Problems like the OP's.
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Old 08-08-2013, 06:26 PM   #10
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Those G114's are some serious tires! Looks good.
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Old 08-09-2013, 06:39 PM   #11
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Upgraded to hi-spec 17.5" wheels and GY G114 tires. Good to know tires are not the weak link.
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Old 08-11-2013, 07:46 AM   #12
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Here's latest. My wife called Carlisle and they are going to send us 7 new 235/80R16 Radial Trail RH tires. Plus, they have offered to pay for the damage to our trailer. In exchange, we need to send the failed tire back (they pay shipping) and we need to prove our trailer was not over weight. I went to the local CAT scale and our measurements were as follows:
STEER AXLE: 5020
DRIVE AXLE: 6520
TRAILER AXLE: 13660
These numbers are well below the rated 7000lb axles with Carlisle Tires at 3520lbs each.

I'm getting the estimate on the trailer repair tomorrow. I don't expect it to be cheap since it was on the side of the trailer with the fuel station which was damaged. I will really be impressed if they pay for the repair. Should I be skeptical about what is going on???

My wife read an article that stated some batches of Carlisle tires made in 2010 were stamped with the wrong rating (E) rather than (D) which means they are under rated. I looked at the date code and they were made Week 11 Year 2010. Hmmm...

Anyway, has anyone used the new Radial Trail RH version?

thanks for the replies.
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Old 08-11-2013, 10:10 AM   #13
BeerCan
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I am glad to see Carlise stepping up to the plate.
I have read that of their radial trail being a much improved tire, so hopefully those reports are true. You could sell those tires when you get them and still go with the G rated if your wheels are capable. Either way I think you should be OK.
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Old 08-12-2013, 06:08 AM   #14
joestaz
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tires

Same happen to our 405 Fuzion. When I contacted Carlisle the did step up and agreed to pay for the repair and gave me the retail value of 7 of their tires because I bought Goodyear G614's. Had to ship all 7 tires back and they even paid the shipping.
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Old 09-04-2013, 07:22 AM   #15
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Guys this thread is EXACTLY what I was looking for. I have a Fuzion 302 and it is eating tires. I have the "Driving America Series 06 wheels". The latest set of tires I tried are Goodyear Marathon (ST235/80R16) load range E. These Goodyear's are less than 1 year old and have less than 1,000 miles on them.

The results with all the tires I have tried is the same. I start getting ripples in the side walls and then bulges. Then I have to replace them before I get a blow out. This is my 3rd 5th wheel so I'm not new to this. I have never had so many problems with tires before. I just think the tires are under rated and simply can't handle the load.

I read this post and have some questions (if you guys are still around):
1) A couple of you guys mentioned buying tires that I think are really truck tires (not ST or trailer tires). However when I look at the rating on the truck tires they look like they are rated for less weight than the ST tires I'm running? What am I missing here?

2) I noticed 2 tires by Goodyear mentioned, the G614 and the G114, are these really 2 different tires or was this a type-o and you were both talking about the same tires?

3) My wheels are 16" Series 06 wheels. I went on their website and they list 3 versions of these wheels, 2 of them only handle 3,200 lbs with a max of 85PSI and the 3rd version will handle 3,960 lbs at 110PSI. How do you tell which version of the wheel we have? Do you guys know for sure we have the 3rd version (heavy duty version)?

4) I saw a couple of you guys mention changing to "Hi Spec" 17.5" wheels. At this point if I can't find a better set of tires (G load rating) that will work on my OE rims then I would consider buying new wheels. The thing that worries me bout this is clearance. You guys are all running Fuzion Toy Haulers it sounds like and that is what I have so I would think it should clear. What size GD 614 are you running on the 17.5" wheels?
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Old 09-04-2013, 09:13 AM   #16
Jager
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So I called the HWT Series 06 place and asked how you tell the wheels apart. Recall they have 3 wheels that are 16" and only one of them is rated for 3,960 lbs and 110 PSI. Well the lady told me that the "HD" version has a stamp on the back side of the wheel that says "HD". I looked at mine and I don't see any stamp. So I assume mine are the 3,200 lb, 85 PSI versions of the wheel. If that is true Keystone is out of their minds. That would be a very marginal rating for some of these toy haulers.
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Old 09-04-2013, 10:22 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c2gerhardt View Post

These numbers are well below the rated 7000lb axles with Carlisle Tires at 3520lbs each.
I don't think your axles are rated at 7000#. Keystone would have to inform NHTSA (in writing) which load capacity ST tire they used as Original Equipment on 7000# GAWRs. It's common practice for trailer manufacturers to derate axles to make all weights fit the building specs. But, 16" ST tires have three distinct load capacities at the LRE weight rating. 3420#, 3500#, and 3520#. If a trailer actually has 7000# GAWR axles only the 3500# & 3520# tires fit the specs. To prevent misapplications of the 3420# tires on those axles the vehicle manufacturer MUST identify - by load capacity - which tires are suitable for fitment. It's much easier for them to derate the axles to something like 6750# which makes all load capacities acceptable under the current regulations.

Note: When such a tire (ST235/80R16E) is built with more than one load capacity, for the identical size, and unidentified as such by the vehicle manufacturer, all load capacities default to the lowest amount.

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Old 09-04-2013, 10:36 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jager View Post
Guys this thread is EXACTLY what I was looking for. I have a Fuzion 302 and it is eating tires. I have the "Driving America Series 06 wheels". The latest set of tires I tried are Goodyear Marathon (ST235/80R16) load range E. These Goodyear's are less than 1 year old and have less than 1,000 miles on them.

The results with all the tires I have tried is the same. I start getting ripples in the side walls and then bulges. Then I have to replace them before I get a blow out. This is my 3rd 5th wheel so I'm not new to this. I have never had so many problems with tires before. I just think the tires are under rated and simply can't handle the load.

I read this post and have some questions (if you guys are still around):
1) A couple of you guys mentioned buying tires that I think are really truck tires (not ST or trailer tires). However when I look at the rating on the truck tires they look like they are rated for less weight than the ST tires I'm running? What am I missing here?

2) I noticed 2 tires by Goodyear mentioned, the G614 and the G114, are these really 2 different tires or was this a type-o and you were both talking about the same tires?

3) My wheels are 16" Series 06 wheels. I went on their website and they list 3 versions of these wheels, 2 of them only handle 3,200 lbs with a max of 85PSI and the 3rd version will handle 3,960 lbs at 110PSI. How do you tell which version of the wheel we have? Do you guys know for sure we have the 3rd version (heavy duty version)?

4) I saw a couple of you guys mention changing to "Hi Spec" 17.5" wheels. At this point if I can't find a better set of tires (G load rating) that will work on my OE rims then I would consider buying new wheels. The thing that worries me bout this is clearance. You guys are all running Fuzion Toy Haulers it sounds like and that is what I have so I would think it should clear. What size GD 614 are you running on the 17.5" wheels?
The G614 tire is a steel cased tire specifically built by Goodyear for trailer applications. It comes in one size - LT235/85R16G - and is rated at 3750# at 110 psi. Even if your current rims are rated for that load capacity and pressure rating, chances are, they are not wide enough. The G614 has a single approved rim width of 6 1/2 ". Many of the off shore tire manufacturers have copied this tire design and "knock-offs" can be found at much lower costs than the GY. All are speed rated at 75 MPH.

CW
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Old 09-04-2013, 10:44 AM   #19
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So I called Keystone and they said my camper has 6,000 lb axles on it and "type A" wheels. I am pretty sure that the Series 06 HD wheels are type B.

BeerCan - you said that your wheels were "stamped" with the weight rating on them. So is this stamp on the outside (visible side) of the rim or on the inside? Was this a stamp like a sticker that goes on the wheel or was it stamped (impressed directly) in the wheel metal itself? What does the stamp say? Does it spell out the weight rating directly or does it just say "HD" or "Type B"?
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Old 09-04-2013, 12:05 PM   #20
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Well near as I can tell my Series 06 wheels are not rated for 110 psi. This really bites. Pretty much means I have to get new wheels if I want to move up in rating. So I checked out the 17.5" Hi Spec wheels . . . not too bad, $225 each which I can deal with.

I also checked out a set of Goodyear G114's for them . . . HOLY COW ! ! Expensive is a gross understatement! These babies run from $450 to $550 EACH ! ! That is completely insane! What the heck? Someone please tell me where I took a wrong click on the mouse and where I should be getting these tires from? Are you folks really paying that kind of money for tires?
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