Diving board roof

[Craig's Keystone Cougar]

Thanks for all of the welcome posts.... this is my roof problem, (but I'm having trouble getting the pictures to load)

According to my dealer, the roof of my Cougar has "the spring of a diving board" !

At the front roof seam, where the front fiberglass cap curves up to join the front of the roof decking …… well, the roof bounces up and down like a diving board. The dealer pulled part of the roof decking back and a structural problem was found.

The roof and front cap were not screwed down to the roof truss. In fact, the screws missed the truss by more than an inch, and were screwed into thin air. And this happened again, when the 2nd and 3rd trusses back were also missed by the screws. To make it even worse, those roof trusses were too small in height, so we had an air gap under the loose roof.

The service mechanic thinks that the the unfastened roof decking was strong enough to walk on at first, but then the roof decking got fatigue from trying to hold up the roof and the front cap, by itself, and last Summer it began to flex like a diving board. At that point, my beautiful Cougar was 3 years old.

(In this pic you can see the gap, and the roof truss, with no screw holes on top of the truss. Sorry, pic won't load. Will keep trying)

Properly done, the front fiberglass cap of the TT attaches to the roof plywood decking and both get screwed into a roof truss along with the Dicor roof fabric and a sealing strip on top. This is the big seam you see at the front and rear of the roof on a TT. Structurally it binds together --- the roof and the front cap of the TT to the roof trusses and the side studs – kind of the skeleton of the TT. It makes the unit strong and it holds together.

Here is a picture of the screws which are supposed to hold the roof decking to the roof trusses. If they were properly installed, they would hold really good. (Won't load - Still working on the pics)


Now, this is a structural defect in the way the roof was assembled at the factory, and it was a concealed defect. When the screws weren’t going into the trusses, the assembly line should have been stopped, and the problem corrected. Instead, the dicor roof was applied and the defect was completely hidden, until the diving board action started. It was concealed during the 1 year warranty period.

“No Problem !” I thought, to get Keystone to take responsibility. Wrong, according to the dealer, the claim was rejected by Keystone. I was amazed!

The dealer charged me $250 to close the roof, without repairs being done, and the repairman wrote in the record: “ It is my opinion that reassembly without any repair - it will leak and I’m not responsible if it does.”

Gradually, my confidence in the dealer has evaporated. Altho, in the beginning I was quite pleased, with a few minor problems being easily corrected. Before we opened the roof, the dealer felt that if we found a construction problem, it would be corrected by Keystone. If it was rejected, the dealer said he knew several good people at Keystone, and he could very likely get Keystone’s authorization for the repair. I should have been more suspicious. I told the dealer that I was not satisfied with their lack of advocacy for this defect.

So, I am stuck with a defective roof, that will likely leak. Obviously, I need some suggestions on how I might proceed from here.

Oh….when I was searching on the internet, I found a Forest River/Rockwood owners website, and I learned how Rockwood had a concealed, structural problem … fiberglass side cracks… and the units were being recalled to the factory for repair. The owners found a contact within Rockwood, Doug Fought, Warranty Manager who took charge and was very helpful. To observe a good factory response to a construction defect…… go to Google and type these words in search:

Crack in another Rockwood Windjammer

I wonder, have any of our Keystone owners found a person higher up than the customer service reps at Keystone? Someone who has the reputation for doing the right thing on problems like mine? If, so, could you pass the person’s name and contact number to me?

My dealer told me to just accept this as the construction standard of the RV industry…..however he did not say that when I was buying the new unit. He said that Keystone had the best reputation for building quality! Makes you wonder.

And, for further history on this problem, I found some screw pops under the Dicor fabric. In checking that out, I stepped near the front of the roof, and discovered the new diving board problem. The screws were pushing up and cracking the Dicor fabric.

The repair mechanic found an additional area of the roof where the roof decking was loose and rattled when stepped on. This was about 1/3 of the roof back from the front seam. At this same spot, screws were beginning to push up through the dicor roof fabric.

This pic shows the protruding screw, with a penny to show the size of the crack. (Won't load... I'm not a computer wizard)

I am yet hopeful that Keystone will look at this again, and accept responsibility. Does anyone know how to make a direct appeal to a real person at Keystone, without going through your dealer?

Thank you, Craig.

2008 Cougar rls
Toyota Tundra 2008

[Festus2]

Craig:
Your photos may not be loading because they are "too big" for the forum's software to handle. If this is the case, try "down sizing" them so that they do not contain as many pixels. Your photo program should be able to do this downsizing for you. Try this and see if it works.

[Festus2]

Craig:
If you browse through this section (Keystone Service/Support Kudos), you will probably find the name(s) and perhaps a telephone number of someone at Keystone that has provided good service and support to one or more of our members who have had problems with their Keystone RV.
Try this and see if you can find a name and number to call.

[jje1960]

I thought I was going to read that you were mounting a diving board on the roof into a pool!
I'd just be putting the self-leveling caulk over those places.... Just me though. Good luck with getting this straight.

[Craig's Keystone Cougar]

Hi Keystone RV family…. Thanks for the suggestions on my roof problem, and for reading my posting.

I am still thinking that I need someone inside the Keystone organization with more authority than a service consultant. Here is my thinking…
• The roof problem was not discovered until the Cougar was 3 years old – well beyond the 1 year warranty period.
• It was a concealed defect as the roof was finished and hid the screw defect until the “diving board” flexing started.
• It was a defect that happened during the original construction of the roof, when the screws missed the roof truss.
• And it likely is a safety issue as the structural integrity of the Cougar was compromised when the roof was not screwed to the roof trusses.

Those are tough issues, and likely not within the authority of a service consultant, even though Keystone obviously has some very competent folks who resolve problems for our owners.

Sooo, I would like to keep this request open for a little bit, to see if there is a new reader who has a contact within Keystone, or…. maybe a different approach for me to consider. Meanwhile, I am thinking of posting this issue on RVNet to see if any of their members have had a similar roof problem, or have a Keystone contact who would help.

Again, thank you for the postings. Craig.

[Festus2]

Craig:
Did you find the name(s) of a Keystone contact person by browsing through the Keystone Service/Support Kudos section that was mentioned to you earlier? I am quite sure that at least one of our members gave a name in a post in that section or the Keystone Service & Warranty Issues category.
A number of members here have indicated that they have received good service from Keystone and said that he/she at Keystone was very helpful and receptive. I would guess that they initiated their contact with an email or phone call and were pleased with the service that they received from that person. Somehow, I don't think one can expect to bypass a "service consultant" or whatever you might want to call them on the initial contact and ask to speak instead with someone higher up the chain in a position of greater authority to present one's case.
You might be surprised to find someone who will be receptive to your concerns and who will try to get them resolved for you. Best of luck in getting these issues resolved.

[JRTJH]

Craig,

There is a current topic concerning a "manufacturer's defect" with the plumbing not being properly connected. It was reported there that Keystone asked the owner to return the trailer to the factory for repair about 3 years after the warranty. You might want to contact that owner and see if he has anything to contribute regarding how he handled his situation and who he talked to at Keystone to get the results he reported.

The thread is located here: http://keystonerv.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4532

Good luck

[Craig's Keystone Cougar]

First I must say “Thank You” for the advice from our experienced members. In dealing with Keystone, I followed your counsel and did begin with Keystone Customer Relations.

Initially, I received a denial on my “Diving Board” roof repair. However, I persisted with a Cougar representative, Robyne Hakes, and I must say that she was most friendly and courteous with me.

Eventually, my claim was reviewed by another Certified Technician on Team Cougar, and Keystone reversed, and I was given an approval for repair to the front part of the roof, where we had stripped back the Dicor roof fabric and the 1st decking sheet to find that the roof trusses were defective and the fastening screws completely missed screwing into a truss. Those problems contributed to the “diving board” spring in the front roof and front panel.

The additional roof problems are awaiting a “Pre-authorization Request” which must be done by the local dealer. Essentially, those problems are roof decking sheets which have not been properly screwed down to the trusses – midway back, and further back, on the roof. These boards rattle and creak when stepped on, and some flex down at the seam butt, where two roof deck boards meet and should be firmly screwed into a truss. Obviously, the screws missed the truss and are screwed into thin air. Those problems were noted by the original dealer’s technician, when he was on the roof inspecting the flex at the front seam.

I am asking Keystone and Team Cougar to lift the Dicor fabric, and to repair the roof decking and any defective trusses -- further back on the roof. Robyne said the local dealer needs to submit this repair request on the Pre- authorization Request form.

Another interesting point occurred when I asked Robyne about taking my RV back to Keystone for repair. She said that repairs of this scope are done at the local dealers, because Keystone has large cranes to lift whole sides at the main plant, and only work needing seriously big tools is done there. Perhaps this will be helpful to someone, down the road.

I read where it is good to get a report on progress, when a member has asked for help on this forum. I am hoping for further repair authorization, and I will report on progress…. Thanks everyone, Craig.

[Festus2]

Craig:
It seems that your polite persistance has produced some encouraging results with Keystone. Robyne seems to be the person that actually practices "customer service" at Keystone - another member has met with good results in his dealings with her.
Hopefully, your dealer will do his part and submit a pre-authorization request, Keystone will approve it and your roof will be repaired.
We are waiting for another positive update from you. Stay in touch.

[jbsmith]

I'm noticing similar problems on the roof of our brand new 2012 Keystone Cougar 331MKS. The rubber roof doesn't appear to be adhering well to the wood. There are also several screw heads showing through the material and what appear to be several staples or pieces of wood poking into the membrane just behind the front cap. The seam between the first two panels at the front of the trailer have quite a bit of flex to them.

I've taken photos and contacted my dealer who indicated they will contact Keystone for pre-approval on the warranty work. The screws don't bother me that much...can patch if necessary. However, roof panels not properly fastened is another story altogether.

Love the trailer, but starting to get concerned with Keystone's attention to detail in the manufacturing of their product.

[Craig's Keystone Cougar]

CONTINUING PROGRESS REPORT

Keystone approved payment for the front "diving board" problem, and the roof was stripped back and the roof panels screwed down properly to a solid roof truss. And that part of the repair looks good. BUT...isn't there always a but.....?

The center and rear portion of the roof panels that were loose....refused. Essentially Keystone said "Well, it's not leaking now !" So, it will be eternabond patched for now, and we will see.

Wanted to share how I got Keystone to do a repair on a 4 year old unit that was clearly past the one year warranty.

1. I had to maintain that the problem was concealed and that it was not something that could be discovered during the warranty period....think about things behind walls, under roof coatings and behind/under cabinets and appliances. When the problem appeared, was it something in the construction of the unit that was hidden. Claim a latent, hidden defect.

2. Despite polite talks with the service reps, I would get denials, and statements that my problem had been reviewed by very well experienced Keystone senior construction workers, who reportedly would not approve the claim. There was no way to tell if a claim had been bumped up the ladder for a review.

3. My dealer was not my friend in this process. I had to confront the owner about a lack of advocacy for me, their good customer. Probably this made it worse for me, and I would not count on help from your dealer.

4. I sent copies of my emails to the service reps, to officials in the Keystone organization who had power to order a repair, if it was justifiable. This produced almost instantaneous results. The service rep called me the same day with an approval of the claim, citing that a leader in Keystone had authorized the repair, despite the denials and reviews by senior craftsmen.

5. I would recommend that only serious, concealed defects be handled this way, as the top officials will quickly learn to tune out false claims.

Good luck to all members who have defects that Keystone should properly cover. It will take persistence to get results.

Craig

[hankpage]

Craig, Thanks for the update and glad to hear that most of your problem was solved and payed for. Travel safely, Hank

[Smoke6]

I am having almost the exact same issue with my 245RB Passport TT.
Roof deck detached and pulling the rubber up and away from the other roof deck (except mine is about twice as bad as the photos posted on here, but in the same place).
No screw heads pressing, just the offset decking.

I'm working with the friendly dealer right now, who initially denied it due to time alone, but now is sympathetic and contacting Keystone.

We will see...

[jonbiker]

I too had a problem where the front cap attaches to the roof. The plywood panel (or OSB) was lifting just behind the Cap. I mentioned it to the dealer and he said bring the trailer in and they would fix it. I had purchased the trailer about 4 months prior. Dealer fixed it with no mention of warranty or excuses or cost to me. This year, when I took the trailer in to have them go over it before our trip (within the one year warranty) I said the city water inlet was leaking at the fitting. They said they would replace it under warranty.

I believe the secret is a great dealer who will solve the problems you cannot fix and do it willingly. Our dealer is Crowder RV in Johnson City, TN.

[FDAMOS]

Glad to hear that you got Keystone to step up. We have just begun the same fight. We noticed a huge hooved up area above door on roof and several other spots along the sides. We went on roof to do seal inspection and found that just about every joint is coming apart (the entire length of roof). We took it to our dealer Sirpilla RV in Akron. The service tech advised that it is due to screws coming out. Of course to no surprise not covered due to being 2yrs old. Was also told that it wasn't covered because the screws/wood had not punctured the membrane yet?????? We also had an issue with the front cap being extremely faded, still pending an approval for that. Once we find out about that issue I will be contacting Keystone to begin the fight. So again thanks for posting your experience and advise and hopefully we can get a good result also.