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Old 03-15-2021, 06:36 AM   #21
jadatis
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Geral idea of TT makers, is that tires are yust enaugh for the TT, and maxpress on sidewall is needed, so that they recomend standard
But in verry few cases TT tires are that overrated thatlower then maxpress gives still 100% savetymargin.
But my idea is that Topicstarter has that exeption to the rule. Only need GVWR and/ or GAWR from topicstarter to be shure .
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Old 03-15-2021, 06:51 PM   #22
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GVWR is 4475 lbs
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Old 03-16-2021, 05:58 AM   #23
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Even if I use the 2271 lbs of european tires as maxload , my spreadsheet gives 64 psi.
This is maximum reserve without bumping.
So if you used 65 psi , I cant explain the falling apart by to high pressure. So not what I expected.

Or it must be that you dont load it to the max of 4475 lbs.

If I would have used the 2040 lbs maxload given for your ST, my pressure-advice would have come even higher, even 72 psi.
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Old 03-16-2021, 06:14 PM   #24
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I usually try and keep the trailer light, packing heavier items in the car and empty tanks. After this discussion I will keep the tires are 65psi, and add a little more load to the trailer.
As far as driving speed I will keep at 65 and make sure to avoid the bumps.
Thanks
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Old 03-16-2021, 09:12 PM   #25
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I usually try and keep the trailer light, packing heavier items in the car and empty tanks. After this discussion I will keep the tires are 65psi, and add a little more load to the trailer.
As far as driving speed I will keep at 65 and make sure to avoid the bumps.
Thanks
In your travels be observant when you see someone towing. It's simple physics basically. A short, light, single axel trailer is going to bounce more than a long, heavy, dual axle one. It doesn't matter if it's a boat, utility, or camper. The closer the trailer axle is to the hitch point the more it will raise the front endnof the camper. Same principle as riding in a 14' John boat vs a 35' cabin cruiser.
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Old 03-17-2021, 03:31 AM   #26
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I usually try and keep the trailer light, packing heavier items in the car and empty tanks. After this discussion I will keep the tires are 65psi, and add a little more load to the trailer.
As far as driving speed I will keep at 65 and make sure to avoid the bumps.
Thanks
You may think you dont load it heavy, but weighing is the only way to be shure.
Best even per wheel, second best per axle.

But I assumed 4000 lbs total weight and filled that in with european 2280 lbs maxload. Gave 57 psi with for that weight max reserve without bumping.

Driving max 81mph this can dropp to 52 psi with still 11% reserve for unequall load.

But mind that inacuracies of pressure-device, and misyudged to low weight, etc, can still bring it over the overheating border.
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Old 03-17-2021, 03:54 AM   #27
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You may think you dont load it heavy, but weighing is the only way to be shure.
Best even per wheel, second best per axle.

But I assumed 4000 lbs total weight and filled that in with european 2280 lbs maxload. Gave 57 psi with for that weight max reserve without bumping.

Driving max 81mph this can dropp to 52 psi with still 11% reserve for unequall load.

But mind that inacuracies of pressure-device, and misyudged to low weight, etc, can still bring it over the overheating border.
I thoroughly appreciate your expertise but it has really confused the whole tire thing for me whenever you start throwing all of these reserve vs psi vs weights versus nature laws vs European tire specs... please donít take offense but it has really muddied the waters.. on a side note I think it would be pretty cool to rv in Europe for a few weeks if I could stay on the proper side of the road .. lol
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Old 03-18-2021, 03:39 AM   #28
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Only in the UK, they drive on the left, rest of Europe on the right.

But I only did the calculation, to exclude the influence of to high pressure on the falling apart of topicstarters TT.

For that you have to use the weights and maxloads that count to laws of nature.
And I admit, this makes it complicated , but was needed to get a true picture of the situation.

The outcome was not what I expected, but it is as it is, and now topicstarter has to search on for the real cource of his problem. Mayby poor construction.

I rest my case in this topic, unless TS comes with much lower real weights after weighing.
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Old 03-18-2021, 06:15 AM   #29
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Only in the UK, they drive on the left, rest of Europe on the right.

But I only did the calculation, to exclude the influence of to high pressure on the falling apart of topicstarters TT.

For that you have to use the weights and maxloads that count to laws of nature.
And I admit, this makes it complicated , but was needed to get a true picture of the situation.

The outcome was not what I expected, but it is as it is, and now topicstarter has to search on for the real cource of his problem. Mayby poor construction.

I rest my case in this topic, unless TS comes with much lower real weights after weighing.
I was not aware that the UK was the only European country that drove on the left ..
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Old 03-18-2021, 07:03 AM   #30
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Technically it's the UK, the Republic of Ireland, Malta and Cyprus for Europe. Several other countries around the world like India, Japan, Australia, Several countries in Africa, Some in South America.
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Old 04-21-2021, 03:57 AM   #31
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I'm always surprised on these threads how many excuses I read. The answer is because these trailers are junk. Keystone (and most other manufacturers) crank them out with little to no true QC, the cheapest materials available, and as fast as possible. Some replies about sitting in the trailer to see how much bouncing around occurs implies that is not what it was built for. That is literally what this thing is. Imagine buying a water jug that leaks in 5 places and arguing "but look how much water you're putting in that thing!" I am super hopeful the industry will turn a corner some day but I don't see it happening. Yes, that means increased prices but right now the majority of RV's are junk. Sorry for the harsh reply but I feel it's the only real answer. We buy them and have to be prepared to deal with non-stop repairs.
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Old 04-21-2021, 07:51 AM   #32
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I'm always surprised on these threads how many excuses I read. The answer is because these trailers are junk. Keystone (and most other manufacturers) crank them out with little to no true QC, the cheapest materials available, and as fast as possible. Some replies about sitting in the trailer to see how much bouncing around occurs implies that is not what it was built for. That is literally what this thing is. Imagine buying a water jug that leaks in 5 places and arguing "but look how much water you're putting in that thing!" I am super hopeful the industry will turn a corner some day but I don't see it happening. Yes, that means increased prices but right now the majority of RV's are junk. Sorry for the harsh reply but I feel it's the only real answer. We buy them and have to be prepared to deal with non-stop repairs.
No repairs due to lack of QC, no cleaning, no insurance required, no periodic annual maintenance & no issues parking the Prius at the Holiday Inn.
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Old 04-21-2021, 09:06 AM   #33
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I'm always surprised on these threads how many excuses I read. The answer is because these trailers are junk. Keystone (and most other manufacturers) crank them out with little to no true QC, the cheapest materials available, and as fast as possible. Some replies about sitting in the trailer to see how much bouncing around occurs implies that is not what it was built for. That is literally what this thing is. Imagine buying a water jug that leaks in 5 places and arguing "but look how much water you're putting in that thing!" I am super hopeful the industry will turn a corner some day but I don't see it happening. Yes, that means increased prices but right now the majority of RV's are junk. Sorry for the harsh reply but I feel it's the only real answer. We buy them and have to be prepared to deal with non-stop repairs.
I agree with your last sentence but I knew ahead of time what I was getting into.
And like you I’m “always surprised” when someone buys an entry level “anything”...cars,chainsaws,work boots and boats for example and demands the same experience and quality as something that costs much more.
I’ve had a stihl chainsaw 034 woodboss that I bought in 1992, cost me $300 more at the time then a cheap saw from Home Depot and it will start to this day on the 2nd or 3rd pull.
Can’t expect $40 Kmart workbooks to last as long as redwings
You get what you pay for and from reading your prior posts it seems you got a bad floor in the trailer. I really don’t think keystone set out to build it knowing there was gonna be a problem.
It seems your dealer stepped up and tried to make you happy and keystone seemed to also try to resolve this.
I don’t know if you will ever be happy with the outcome but I personally don’t think I bought junk.
Your basically telling everyone on the forum we are a bunch of suckers and all have trash being pulled behind our trucks.
You could maybe sell yours to another person who doesn’t mind the upkeep and buy a luxury travel trailer.
I do feel your disappointment over the problems but at some point your better off unloading it and trying a different way to travel.

And like you I’m sorry for the harsh reply but I’m a glass half full kinda guy and it’s getting old listening to posts that never let up on how this brand of fifth wheel that my wife and I enjoy very much is nothing more then Junk.

I wish you the best and hope your issues get resolved
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Old 04-21-2021, 09:36 AM   #34
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I'm always surprised on these threads how many excuses I read. The answer is because these trailers are junk. Keystone (and most other manufacturers) crank them out with little to no true QC, the cheapest materials available, and as fast as possible. Some replies about sitting in the trailer to see how much bouncing around occurs implies that is not what it was built for. That is literally what this thing is. Imagine buying a water jug that leaks in 5 places and arguing "but look how much water you're putting in that thing!" I am super hopeful the industry will turn a corner some day but I don't see it happening. Yes, that means increased prices but right now the majority of RV's are junk. Sorry for the harsh reply but I feel it's the only real answer. We buy them and have to be prepared to deal with non-stop repairs.


The highlighted statements above would be incorrect IMO. I'm sure they are a result of your personal issues with your trailer but in no way reflect the experiences I've had over several trailers......but then again I don't count every little "uh oh" that happens because I KNOW they're going to happen. Doesn't make the trailer junk, it makes it an RV.

What you consider "excuses" are in fact folks trying to tell those that don't know the true landscape of the RV industry. Not excuses, just reality. And the reality is that with the current production environment those issues can and will makes themselves known....so be prepared to deal with it.

Talking about sitting inside a 2 wheel trailer to see what bounces and "that's what it was built for".....you should try it sometime. They do a great job of trying to secure and hold things down in a smaller trailer but the reality is that the small trailer, with a single axle and 2 tires pressured up to carry the load WILL hop and jump around when pulled over road irregularities. They can't build a trailer light enough to be towed behind a Prius and then one expect that it's going to be built like, and hold together like, an Abrams tank. That's just not realistic.

In the end the RV industry builds to what the buying public demands and what they are putting out seems to be wildly popular. Judging from my participation on several RV forums I would say the few folks that have the same issues as you are far, far, far outweighed by those that are using their RVs and having a blast and accepting they issues they have then deal with them....as I do.
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Old 04-21-2021, 09:49 AM   #35
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Maybe consider a BOWLUS travel trailer ???? https://bowlus.com/ They come with a 24 month all inclusive warranty and there is no dealership network, so you always get "the ultimate factory service experience". You deal with "your personal factory representative" from initial contact throughout your ownership.

They offer three trailers, the Endless Highways from $190,000, the Endless Highways Performance Edition, from $225,000 and the Terra Firma starting at $265,000.

All are 26' long, have a GVW of 4000 pounds, a single axle configuration with 19 gallons of fresh water, a 21 gallon gray tank and 4.5 gallon capacity black tank cassette toilet and a "whopping 800 pound cargo capacity"....

Their website doesn't address how they help owners resolve problems after the 2 year warranty, but with no dealership network, taking it back to the factory for anything could result in a cross country trip for anything "factory related". The factory is located in Oxnard, CA...

The "brand has been owned by the likes of Greta Garbo and Clark Gable, so if that matters, "silver screen greats have owned silver trailer greats"...

There are "alternatives to Keystone" and anyone who is not satisfied with their trailer should "honestly and reflectively consider ownership or continued ownership of the brand".... Keep in mind, the last sentence on the Bowlus website says, "Bowlus reserves the right to alter specifications, equipment and pricing without prior notice." So even at more than a quarter million dollars, you can't buy anything that's "reliably going to be what you expect"... YMMV
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Old 04-21-2021, 09:54 AM   #36
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I'm always surprised on these threads how many excuses I read. The answer is because these trailers are junk. Keystone (and most other manufacturers) crank them out with little to no true QC, the cheapest materials available, and as fast as possible. Some replies about sitting in the trailer to see how much bouncing around occurs implies that is not what it was built for. That is literally what this thing is. Imagine buying a water jug that leaks in 5 places and arguing "but look how much water you're putting in that thing!" I am super hopeful the industry will turn a corner some day but I don't see it happening. Yes, that means increased prices but right now the majority of RV's are junk. Sorry for the harsh reply but I feel it's the only real answer. We buy them and have to be prepared to deal with non-stop repairs.
You're welcome to share your harsh reply. Everyone has their own opinions.
I don't see it as affecting me in the least.

I do find it interesting to watch different folks' perspectives. There is a thing called a pre-delivery inspection. I bought an entry-level TT that was 3 years old. Probably comparable to a Honda Accord. It's no Bentley, but it's not a Pinto either. I knew that and set my expectations accordingly. Mine doesn't even have slide-outs, but my family is very happy with it.

We bought my wife's 2012 Journey in 2013 with 6,000 miles on it. Other than routine maintenance, we've had zero issues. A friend at work bought a 2011 Journey with about 20K on it. They got less than 5K miles out of it before trading it in due to constant issues (which BTW started because a wally-world tech didn't tighten the oil plug and they ran the oil out of the engine). They hate Journeys and tell everyone to they are nothing but junk.
Did they have any issues before the oil plug incident? They leave that part out of the story. I couldn't care less what they think about our Journey. We love ours, but I've also taken extremely good care of it, and I thoroughly inspected it before we signed on the dotted line. Guess what? I did the same with my TT, and my TV. I've never had any significant problems with something I carefully inspected before buying, and then thoroughly took care of afterwards. But then again I also take full responsibility of my actions, and don't try to speak for anyone else.
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Old 04-21-2021, 10:00 AM   #37
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I guess that in a perfect world you'd get perfect products... but, we don't so we try to purchase based on the best info you can find... If anyone purchases a TT or 5th wheel (or even a new car, new house, electronic device or other assembled products) expecting perfection they will always be that "unsatisfied" consumer.. I believe that the majority of persons know that it's not a matter of IF things will fail, but more so, When they will fail. Question is, will you be prepared for it? 90% of the Guys and gals here know that and can deal with it... the other 10% are the "victims" of a conspiracy to build faulty products....
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Old 06-07-2021, 04:32 PM   #38
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You are correct. Hope you're still around.

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Originally Posted by kfp673 View Post
I'm always surprised on these threads how many excuses I read. The answer is because these trailers are junk. Keystone (and most other manufacturers) crank them out with little to no true QC, the cheapest materials available, and as fast as possible. Some replies about sitting in the trailer to see how much bouncing around occurs implies that is not what it was built for. That is literally what this thing is. Imagine buying a water jug that leaks in 5 places and arguing "but look how much water you're putting in that thing!" I am super hopeful the industry will turn a corner some day but I don't see it happening. Yes, that means increased prices but right now the majority of RV's are junk. Sorry for the harsh reply but I feel it's the only real answer. We buy them and have to be prepared to deal with non-stop repairs.
You are 100% correct about how these trailers are constructed. I've recently torn into my Keystone trailer to correct some "factory designed" issues. I knew going in they are constructed cheaply, but I didn't know just how terribly they are engineered, like butt-splices in 13' clear spans of roof supporting the rooftop A/C and the roofing membrane being tucked behind the siding. I was pulled over for a missing taillight in Indiana a couple years ago, not burned out...missing, because the screws ripped out of the siding. After opening the back wall, I see that there was no wood backing behind the aluminum on the driver's side of the trailer, so the taillight was screwed to the aluminum siding, and that's it.

When I noted this earlier in the week I was flamed by multiple members here on the forum, including at least 2 admins. When I pointed out the lack of actually reading the post before flaming its author, I was threatened with expulsion by one of the admins, who incidentally was one of the first to jump on the bandwagon of insults. This is apparently a Keystone fanboy site, and pointing out manufacturing defects is taboo... I'm sure this post will now be my last here, because I said something. But trust me, there are other RV sites that welcome members sharing their issues and subsequently how they are fixed. I find this much more valuable than a site where everyone jumps on you for being critical of clearly poor manufacturing techniques.
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Old 06-07-2021, 05:26 PM   #39
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You are 100% correct about how these trailers are constructed. I've recently torn into my Keystone trailer to correct some "factory designed" issues. I knew going in they are constructed cheaply, but I didn't know just how terribly they are engineered, like butt-splices in 13' clear spans of roof supporting the rooftop A/C and the roofing membrane being tucked behind the siding. I was pulled over for a missing taillight in Indiana a couple years ago, not burned out...missing, because the screws ripped out of the siding. After opening the back wall, I see that there was no wood backing behind the aluminum on the driver's side of the trailer, so the taillight was screwed to the aluminum siding, and that's it.

When I noted this earlier in the week I was flamed by multiple members here on the forum, including at least 2 admins. When I pointed out the lack of actually reading the post before flaming its author, I was threatened with expulsion by one of the admins, who incidentally was one of the first to jump on the bandwagon of insults. This is apparently a Keystone fanboy site, and pointing out manufacturing defects is taboo... I'm sure this post will now be my last here, because I said something. But trust me, there are other RV sites that welcome members sharing their issues and subsequently how they are fixed. I find this much more valuable than a site where everyone jumps on you for being critical of clearly poor manufacturing techniques.


Brob, your problem is your inability to control your responses to others and the continued violation of forum community rules;

*Do not take every opportunity to express your disagreement, incite argument, insult each other, or fan flames. Voice you opinion respectfully and then let it go.
*Do not post the same discussion more than once or in more than one forum area.
*Public discussion about moderation or moderator decisions is not allowed.
*Trolling and cyberstalking are NOT allowed and are grounds for account restriction or removal. Trolling on this board includes posting controversial and often irrelevant or off-topic messages with the intention of (or anticipated result of) baiting other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal, harmonious on-topic discussion, especially when a pattern of such posting is apparent.


You have violated these rules repeatedly, complaining about a 19 year old trailer you lived in full time.

No one flamed you for posting your opinion of the construction of an RV, your repeated attacks on others that tried to explain offended members. Your attempts to go from thread to thread to post the same inflammatory comments was objected to.

I too belong to many forums but unlike those you belong to ((I guess) they limit the inciteful posts allowed by a member.
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Old 06-07-2021, 06:31 PM   #40
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Sure, everyone was SO kind! ;-)

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Brob, your problem is your inability to control your responses to others and the continued violation of forum community rules;

*Do not take every opportunity to express your disagreement, incite argument, insult each other, or fan flames. Voice you opinion respectfully and then let it go.
*Do not post the same discussion more than once or in more than one forum area.
*Public discussion about moderation or moderator decisions is not allowed.
*Trolling and cyberstalking are NOT allowed and are grounds for account restriction or removal. Trolling on this board includes posting controversial and often irrelevant or off-topic messages with the intention of (or anticipated result of) baiting other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal, harmonious on-topic discussion, especially when a pattern of such posting is apparent.


You have violated these rules repeatedly, complaining about a 19 year old trailer you lived in full time.

No one flamed you for posting your opinion of the construction of an RV, your repeated attacks on others that tried to explain offended members. Your attempts to go from thread to thread to post the same inflammatory comments was objected to.

I too belong to many forums but unlike those you belong to ((I guess) they limit the inciteful posts allowed by a member.
This is literally the FIRST time I've experienced anything like this in an RV forum. It seems like many here never jumped off the political bandwagon...

I find it pretty laughable that you can accuse me of "repeated attacks" on people after being told to "put on my big boy pants" and being called "pansy", told to "get over yourself and quit whining" and told that the lack of insulation, butt-end splices in 13' clear-spans, and roofing under the siding is a result of my poor maintenance. Let me guess, you're another moderator...good for you!

Keystone travel trailers are constructed poorly, that's it..., You can learn from those of us who have the wherewithal to tear into them and rebuild them properly, or you can instead sit behind your keyboard and namecall then threaten others who speak up...your choice.
Have a nice life.
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