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Old 11-21-2020, 02:17 PM   #1
DesertDogs
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Inverter Wire Recall

Received a recall notice today for our 2021 Cougar 27SGS regarding the inverter. We are planning a trip next weekend and probably can’t get to the dealership before then. Sounds like we can turn off the inverter in the meantime. Anyone else received this recall?
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Old 11-22-2020, 09:12 AM   #2
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I got mine in the mail yesterday too. At first I was confused. I was told by my dealer at the PDI and I verified it against the build sheet, my trailer does have the OTG package. I never knew or understood the complete operation of this system. I was under the impression the solar panel merely recharged the coach batteries for extended boondocking trips for lights, furnace, and starting the pilot on the fridge on propane. I didn't know there were outlets inside the trailer that could be powered from the inverter. I need to investigate the inverter itself and search for a on/off switch. Once I locate that, I intend to disconnect shore power, power on the inverter and check to see what outlets are working. From what I understand, there should be at least three. One for the TV, one in the kitchen, and one or two in the bedroom. Is there an easy way to identify which outlets are inverter powered?
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Old 11-22-2020, 09:29 AM   #3
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The "easy way" is to use a lamp, turn it on and use it as a "test lamp" to check each socket....

A caution: If you have a removeable shore power cord, when you disconnect shore power, do it "at the trailer end of your shore power cord"... If you just unplug it from the outlet at your site or on the garage, the exposed pins may be hot and could electrocute someone who might inadvertently pick up the cord and touch the plug pins..... If you have a "permanently attached shore power cord that pushes into a cavity in the trailer" then those pins may be hot all the time and need to be protected/covered to prevent anyone from touching them.

The only way to remove power from those pins (on the recalled trailers), apparently is to either turn off the inverter or to remove battery power to the inverter by disconnecting the battery cables or inverter cables.
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Old 11-22-2020, 09:40 AM   #4
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I fully intend to cut the breaker off in my power pedestal, then disconnect the cord at the trailer connection. I have a test probe I can use in the outlets. I was wondering if there was some identification on the outlets themselves.
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Old 11-22-2020, 09:49 AM   #5
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I fully intend to cut the breaker off in my power pedestal, then disconnect the cord at the trailer connection. I have a test probe I can use in the outlets. I was wondering if there was some identification on the outlets themselves.
The outlets are supposed to be labeled. I saw one that had a little smily face sun on it or something like that.
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Old 11-22-2020, 09:52 AM   #6
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I'll have to look. Haven't noticed anything like that yet, but then again, I wasn't looking that closely.
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Old 11-22-2020, 09:54 AM   #7
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I think our’s are labeled. I will check later this afternoon and see what they say.
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Old 11-22-2020, 12:39 PM   #8
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OK, my investigations are complete. I believe my trailer is wired correctly. I found the inverter. Went thru every scrap of paper in the owners manuals I was given at PDI and there was nothing on the inverter. I went online and researched the inverter and found one. All this time my inverter has been turned off. I checked all outlets in my trailer, none are marked in any way I can see to identify which are powered by the inverter. On shore power, all have power and the one near the kitchen, at the back door and the one in the bathroom are GFCI and I verified they work correctly. I then disconnected shore power and powered on the inverter. I went back in the trailer and started checking outlets. The GFCI at the back door, near the kitchen, the one behind the TV and the one on the left side of the bed are powered. I then turned off the inverter and re-checked. no outlets had power. I then reconnected shore power and turn on the inverter. I'm using a Progressive EMS on my shore power cord so I don't get power in the coach immediately. I had the TV on and running on inverter power and once the shore power came back on, the TV did not turn off. I then went and turned off the inverter and the TV stayed on. I then turned the inverter back on and shut off shore power. The TV went off but I was able to turn it right back on. I restored shore power and shut the inverter off while its in winter storage. As a side note, while I was on shore power alone, it was right chilly in the trailer. I turned the fireplace on and it warmed up fairly quickly. Nice to know for when we cool weather camp next spring and fall.
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Old 11-22-2020, 12:51 PM   #9
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I will also say this, Keystone mounted this thing in a most inconvenient spot. You can not see the display panel unless you want to empty the baggage compartment and crawl in to look at it. I used the camera on my phone to take pics of the display, wrote myself a note to remind me what order the pics were in, then had to edit the pics as they were mirror images. On the other hand, I can't imagine were else they could mount it so as not to get banged around by stuff in the compartment while loading or traveling.
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Old 11-22-2020, 01:19 PM   #10
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Two of our outlets have an OTG sticker on them, one on the left side of the bed and the TV. The kitchen outlet has a GFCI sticker only. We unplugged the shore power and left the inverter on and checked the outlets. Only three worked...bedroom, TV, and kitchen. So now should assume we are wired correctly and do not need to take it into dealer?
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Old 11-22-2020, 01:32 PM   #11
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That's my thought, but I'm still gonna call the dealer Monday and confirm it's all good to go.
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Old 11-22-2020, 04:29 PM   #12
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OK, my investigations are complete. I believe my trailer is wired correctly. I found the inverter. Went thru every scrap of paper in the owners manuals I was given at PDI and there was nothing on the inverter. I went online and researched the inverter and found one. All this time my inverter has been turned off. I checked all outlets in my trailer, none are marked in any way I can see to identify which are powered by the inverter. On shore power, all have power and the one near the kitchen, at the back door and the one in the bathroom are GFCI and I verified they work correctly. I then disconnected shore power and powered on the inverter. I went back in the trailer and started checking outlets. The GFCI at the back door, near the kitchen, the one behind the TV and the one on the left side of the bed are powered. I then turned off the inverter and re-checked. no outlets had power. I then reconnected shore power and turn on the inverter. I'm using a Progressive EMS on my shore power cord so I don't get power in the coach immediately. I had the TV on and running on inverter power and once the shore power came back on, the TV did not turn off. I then went and turned off the inverter and the TV stayed on. I then turned the inverter back on and shut off shore power. The TV went off but I was able to turn it right back on. I restored shore power and shut the inverter off while its in winter storage. As a side note, while I was on shore power alone, it was right chilly in the trailer. I turned the fireplace on and it warmed up fairly quickly. Nice to know for when we cool weather camp next spring and fall.
It doesn't look like you checked the shore power cord during your checks... The recall, as I understand it, was initiated because when the trailer is NOT on shore power AND the inverter is powered ON, some trailers are wired so the shore power cord is energized by the inverter. Anyone who touches the pins on the unplugged shore power cord or lifts the hatch and touches the pins where the shore power cord attaches to the trailer could get electrocuted. Apparently, all of the inside plugs work as designed, the transfer switch in the inverter works as designed, but because of a miswiring mistake, power is applied to the shore power cord, energizing it and creating a hazard to anyone who might touch the connector or the pins at the shore power connection on the trailer or, if the cord is connected to the trailer, could "backfeed power through the cord" making the male connector "hot"...
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Old 11-22-2020, 04:34 PM   #13
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The outlets are supposed to be labeled. I saw one that had a little smily face sun on it or something like that.
But considering the known accuracy of Keystone labels, it could just as likely be marked "GRAY WATER."
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Old 11-22-2020, 07:00 PM   #14
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It doesn't look like you checked the shore power cord during your checks... The recall, as I understand it, was initiated because when the trailer is NOT on shore power AND the inverter is powered ON, some trailers are wired so the shore power cord is energized by the inverter. Anyone who touches the pins on the unplugged shore power cord or lifts the hatch and touches the pins where the shore power cord attaches to the trailer could get electrocuted. Apparently, all of the inside plugs work as designed, the transfer switch in the inverter works as designed, but because of a miswiring mistake, power is applied to the shore power cord, energizing it and creating a hazard to anyone who might touch the connector or the pins at the shore power connection on the trailer or, if the cord is connected to the trailer, could "backfeed power through the cord" making the male connector "hot"...
You are correct, I did not check the shore power cord. However, I read the recall notice and as I read it, Keystone wants me to check and see if I have power at specific outlets with shore power off and the inverter powered on. As I accomplished that check, it was apparent the inverter is wired correctly and is powering the coach properly. None of the electrical appliances received power from the inverter. If those DID receive power I would concerned about the male end of the plug being energized from the inverter. I still intend to contact the dealer and see what they say.
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Old 11-22-2020, 08:42 PM   #15
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You are correct, I did not check the shore power cord. However, I read the recall notice and as I read it, Keystone wants me to check and see if I have power at specific outlets with shore power off and the inverter powered on. As I accomplished that check, it was apparent the inverter is wired correctly and is powering the coach properly. None of the electrical appliances received power from the inverter. If those DID receive power I would concerned about the male end of the plug being energized from the inverter. I still intend to contact the dealer and see what they say.
I think you need to reread the recall in the photo in post #1. The problem is NOT with the outlets inside the trailer. All they are asking you to do in the third paragraph is to check to make sure they do not have power when the inverter is turned off. Read the "REASON FOR THE RECALL" (first paragraph) and it says, "...inverter is incorrectly wired, and when in use, is allowing power to energize the shore power connection. When the incorrectly wired inverter is turned on, 120 volt power will energize the shore power connection..." The paragraph about "WHAT WE NEED YOU TO DO" is instructing you to turn off the inverter and then to make sure it's off by checking the outlets marked OTG to make sure there is no power to those outlets. Unless you actually measure for voltage "at the shore power plug" or "at the shore power connection" you wouldn't know if the inverter is miswired and providing power to the shore power cord.
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Old 11-22-2020, 09:51 PM   #16
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In another Cougar owners group I'm in, someone posted the actual recall sheet with the detailed inspection and repair procedures. I read that and based off my understanding of it, I believe my unit is not affected. The second step in the procedure states to "disconnect the shore power and turn on the inverter. Inspect outlets labeled “Off the Grid Inverter Circuit”. These should be the only 120VAC circuits energized in the unit. If these are the only circuits energized proceed to Warranty Reimbursement for inspection only, otherwise proceed to Step 3." But, I'm willing to listen to reason. Here is the actual inspection and repair instructions. Please read them and tell me what you think.
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/202...QowCToffW3b7Ak
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Old 11-23-2020, 06:11 AM   #17
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In another Cougar owners group I'm in, someone posted the actual recall sheet with the detailed inspection and repair procedures. I read that and based off my understanding of it, I believe my unit is not affected. The second step in the procedure states to "disconnect the shore power and turn on the inverter. Inspect outlets labeled “Off the Grid Inverter Circuit”. These should be the only 120VAC circuits energized in the unit. If these are the only circuits energized proceed to Warranty Reimbursement for inspection only, otherwise proceed to Step 3." But, I'm willing to listen to reason. Here is the actual inspection and repair instructions. Please read them and tell me what you think.
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/202...QowCToffW3b7Ak
I think you are good. There's two issues at play. The first one is that they possibly wired only one outlet on the output side of the inverter. That's not a safety issue just a mistake in the wiring that only gives you one outlet available. The second problem which is addressed in #4 is that the inverter output/input connections are potentially reversed. That is what can cause the inverter to feed back into the breaker panel and potentially energize the shore power connection.

Since you have just the three identified outlets energized when the inverter is on then it's wired correctly. You could always do a quick check on the shore power plug with the inverter on to verify that.
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Old 11-23-2020, 08:53 AM   #18
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I think you are good. There's two issues at play. The first one is that they possibly wired only one outlet on the output side of the inverter. That's not a safety issue just a mistake in the wiring that only gives you one outlet available. The second problem which is addressed in #4 is that the inverter output/input connections are potentially reversed. That is what can cause the inverter to feed back into the breaker panel and potentially energize the shore power connection.

Since you have just the three identified outlets energized when the inverter is on then it's wired correctly. You could always do a quick check on the shore power plug with the inverter on to verify that.
That's my point in the multiple posts above....

As an analogy: If LG recalled all their TVs because the tuner would not receive channel 7, and they instructed the technician to tune to channel 6 and channel 8, with instructions that if 6/8 work, then consider the TV to be OK...... Why not also check channel 7 ?????

It's the same thing with this inverter recall. To initiate a recall for potential 120 volts on exposed shore power connector pins, then to "NOT" check those pins for voltage, but to "check other places and ASSUME there isn't voltage on the connector pins" ????? As easy and as simple as it is to put a multimeter on the exposed pins, either at the trailer receptacle or at the end of the shore power cord, to make sure your trailer isn't "the one with both issues"..... Seems too easy to check and too important to ignore..... YMMV
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Old 11-23-2020, 03:12 PM   #19
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I spoke with dealer service manager today and he said we could check it by doing exactly what we did by verifying that the three OTG outlets all worked when not connected to shore power. He said to just bring it in anytime so they could sign off on the recall. I feel confident that our unit it is not included in the recall.
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Old 11-23-2020, 07:32 PM   #20
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My selling dealer (in Utah) said the same thing. I contacted a local (90 miles away) Keystone dealer and spoke with their service writer. He agrees with me, I've already accomplished the checks a technician would. The service writer offered me their next available appointment, Jan 26th and they would get to it in a few days. I declined as my tow vehicle is in the body shop and At that time, I might have 3 feet of snow in my driveway. I asked about a date in early spring, beginning of April. They said how about the 2nd? OK I can have my trailer in there at 10 AM. Since I'm making this appointment 5 months in advance, and the inspection should only take about 20 minutes, I would appreciate it if I could drop the trailer there in the morning, go run around Reno for a few hours then come back and pick up my trailer. The service writer said they would do their best to accommodate me. We'll have to wait and see what happens in April.
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