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Old 10-04-2020, 04:29 PM   #1
LERD
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Multi month travel question

I have looked for some answers to this question but I haven't been able to find them. I hope this is the right thread post. My retirement is 2 years from now, maybe sooner if I get a good buy-out. That being said, my current TV and 5th wheel will get upgraded a little, certainly the TV. I'm pulling an '07 Copper Canyon 252FWRLS with an ecoboost F-150. I am about 200 lbs over on payload, I know, but man this engine is outstanding for towing. However, when we start with multi-week travels I told the DW we need to increase the TV. I'm staying with Ford so I am looking at the F-350 with the SRW. This will be more than enough vehicle for any future RV we get because we want to stay under 35' and under 16k lbs. I like diesels, I understand and currently drive diesels and I also understand their drawbacks. Actually, it's not the engine that worries me, it's the emissions. But I am also considering the new 7.3l gas. I'm very impressed by what I have been seeing and reading about that engine. Plus I'm towing with gas now, no problems. Not to mention very long and very heavy RV's are not what we're after, ever! So, my question for those of you who stay away from home for longer periods, which engine works the best for all of the other days when your out sight seeing or exploring new areas of the country. We plan on staying for a week or two in one place, looking around then moving on. While we plan on towing a lot, it won't be an everyday, constantly on the go situation. How much of a benefit would I really get from a diesel? Let's face it, just daily driving with unknown drive times or destinations, gas is my better bet. Plus, we hope to have a 10 year plan on travel, then re-evaluate what or when our exit strategy takes place. So longevity is sort of a mute point. So which engine works best for you? Sorry for the long post, but thanks for your answers.
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Old 10-04-2020, 05:32 PM   #2
sourdough
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Well, you pose the old "diesel vs gas" question. I pose this question to myself all the time. But, I'm a cost/benefit, bang for the buck guy.

There are those that want and love a diesel. They are better at towing large loads. But, diesels, IMO are made to "work". They need that load to take advantage of what they offer, if not, why? A diesel will cost you approx. 11k upon purchase. Regular maintenance is higher. Cost to operate is higher. Depending on engine, a failure can be catastrophic. But, if you have that big load behind you going up a mountain a gas engine is going to bust a gut trying to pull it while a diesel won't.

To me the paramount thing to know is WHAT are you going to pull? How much does it weigh? Where are you going to be driving? If it's in the Rockies everyday I would get a diesel even if the load was 7k. But most folks don't. But back to load;

There is a delta between the weight of the diesel taking away payload and then the benefit of the power comes into play. My gas truck, equipped with the best gas drivetrain I can get from Ram, will tow a mid sized 5th wheel OK. Pull as good as a diesel? No. Strain the gas engine? No.

In my mind there is a point that a diesel is just a no brainer. I used to say over 10k with a 3/4 but figured it could do 12k with 3.73 ratio. That was when they only had the 6 speed behind the 6.4. Then they came out with the 8 speed and I bought a 1 ton 4.10. I set my top limit at 13k. It can do more but I intend to do some mountains and it will be "working".

At that point you have to look at not numbers but actual ability of the engines...and the truck. When you get to that range the weight limits of the truck, with gas, would indicate you can tow a lot more than the engine can comfortably accommodate; numbers don't mean a lot if you have nothing to reference them to.

Pay attention to weights and the limitation imposed upon any tow vehicle. A gas engine adds payload; a diesel takes it away. A gas engines ability to pull a load drops off pretty quickly, a diesel does not. The trick is to find that break point....WHEN does that extra 11k up front become worth it.

IMO I'm at the limit I can possibly be with a 1 ton SRW gas. More and it requires a diesel to comfortably pull the load. Problem? Yep. At 14-15k load a SRW diesel will run short of payload..then you go to a dually. I limit my truck choices, that in turn absolutely dictates what I can have in an RV. Again, you need to know what you are going to get; the RV dictates the truck, or, the truck dictates the RV based on numbers.

Edit: Watched a video from thefastlanetruck guys on the new 7.3 Ford "Goliath" gas engine. Almost what I've been begging FCA to put in a Ram. Very impressive and they had a 3/4 towing 16k lbs. - I'm sure not worrying about payload weights...only tow rating. Might be something I will look at.
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Old 10-05-2020, 06:30 AM   #3
LERD
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Yeah, I really wanted to avoid the whole diesel vs. gas never ending thread. But the I'm a bit the same way about bang for my buck. I know flat out the diesel pulls better, but do I need it? The 7.3l gas I would buy is rated for gooseneck towing over 20k lbs. That is well within my pre-set size limit. Just me and the DW, so bigger for us is just more to clean. Plus when I'm not traveling and I'm here at the house, just about every store I would go to is close. Less than 2 miles close for most of it. And I'm pretty sure most places we'll visit when traveling will be close to the campground as well. At least shorter trips anyway. I know diesels and short trips don't play well together. So I'm wondering, should this factor be a serious consideration, or am I over thinking it? We plan on traveling 6-8 months out of the year. But probably not more than 2 months at a crack. Gotta see the grandkids after all.
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Old 10-05-2020, 08:05 AM   #4
sourdough
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Figure out what you want in a trailer. A tow rating of 20k doesn't tell you much, it's the other numbers that will tell you. If you are going to travel the country that would mean you will do mountains, flats and in between. A mix or more of one or the other? And when I say mountains, I mean mountains like the Rockies and not rolling hills like in the south/east. Primarily mountains and the edge goes to the diesel. The other way I would say it goes to the gas.

Size of the trailer is the key. What size will you be comfortable in? I can tell you that if you spend 8 mos. in it you will want something more than a 25 footer. Plus, a 5th wheel gives you a much greater feeling of openness that really helps if you are cooped up in bad weather for an extended period.

You sound sort of like me. I would suggest setting your trailer limit at 14.5k gvw and start looking at the websites and see if something fits that might be what you like and might work then go look at them. If you can find something in that range I would buy that 7.3, equipped properly, and be done with it. Again, at that size if you're going to be in the mountains all the time you might consider a diesel but watch that video of the 7.3 towing 16k up the mountain - it was pretty impressive.

Edit: Here is the link to that little test in case you couldn't find it -
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Old 10-05-2020, 08:30 AM   #5
dutchmensport
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I am not going to give you an opinion on gas or diesel, or Ford or Chevy, or dually or single. No! What I am going to do is encourage you "think."

The comment below is identical to the same questions that so many ask and want affirmation for a lesser vehicle to use as a daily driver, opposed to a vehicle that is suitable for towing. (as stated by others so many times ... I'm not towing in mountains, and I'm only using the truck once a year to tow my behemoth RV. I need a daily driver, that's easy on gas mileage and easy to park, I'm not planning on overloading the trailer, and I never will drive
over 65 mph.)

You said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by LERD View Post
... So, my question for those of you who stay away from home for longer periods, which engine works the best for all of the other days when your out sight seeing or exploring new areas of the country. ...

Again, I'm not saying what is the correct decision for you: gas, desiel, dually, single, crew cab, long bed, 3500, f250, no, no no.

Here is what you need to think about, THEN draw your own consulsions:

“You really need to think in terms of what is the ultimate extreme usage you'll be experiencing with your truck, not what is the lightest usage and hope it's OK when the extreme happens."
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Old 10-05-2020, 09:06 AM   #6
flybouy
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I would agree with Dutchmensport but put it a little differently. First, you have to decide what works for you. Everyone's needs, driving skills, disposable income, etc. are different., So what's best for me may not be at all applicable to you.

The most important thing in my mind is that what you are asking is what's best for which task (towing/not towing) and what you should pick. For the vast majority this becomes a compromise. Seems like I read this on the forum with great frequency.

Folks want to tow a 12k fiver with a 1/2 ton truck so they have a "cushy" commute and can park it close to the door at the supermarket. When told they may be towing a dangerous load with an underside truck the "sparks fly" and the battle ensues.So the issue to my thinking is where do you want to make the compromise.

Do you compromise safety to have a better ride and a better parking spot or do you choose safety and live with the inconveniences associated with an appropriate tow vehichle. I have yet to hear any vehicle manufacturer state that "here's the max load rating or axel rating UNLESS you only tow on 5 weekends a year, close to home, and don't fill the water tank"

I hope when anyone anyone reading the embolden line above thinks that ridiculous as that argument is ridiculous in my opinion. If the choice is to travel safely while towing vs comfort and conveinence I'll take the safety choice every time. With trucks riding better, getting better fuel mileage and offering more and more conveniences with every new model year the gap is narrowing.

I wish you luck in your adventures ahead.
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Old 10-05-2020, 09:17 AM   #7
LERD
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Sourdough, I saw that video I think back in February. That's what made me rethink my motor choice. My current RV is a 28ft 5er, so I'm looking to add maybe 3-4k lbs and 6 ft or less. And like Dutchmansport said I've been racking my brain back and forth on my worst case scenario. We plan on traveling the rockies some. But we live in Ohio, and there's so much country to see here in the Midwest and east as well. So after that tfl video, I know the engine will do it. Basically, I don't want to buy the diesel when the gas would have worked better. Maybe I should have titled this thread "Who bought a diesel TV that realized they should have bought gas and why?" By the way, I really do appreciate everyone's help with this. This decision is still over a year away, but....
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Old 10-05-2020, 09:21 AM   #8
flybouy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LERD View Post
Sourdough, I saw that video I think back in February. That's what made me rethink my motor choice. My current RV is a 28ft 5er, so I'm looking to add maybe 3-4k lbs and 6 ft or less. And like Dutchmansport said I've been racking my brain back and forth on my worst case scenario. We plan on traveling the rockies some. But we live in Ohio, and there's so much country to see here in the Midwest and east as well. So after that tfl video, I know the engine will do it. Basically, I don't want to buy the diesel when the gas would have worked better. Maybe I should have titled this thread "Who bought a diesel TV that realized they should have bought gas and why?" By the way, I really do appreciate everyone's help with this. This decision is still over a year away, but....
Your decision or when you are going to act on it, being a year away is advantageous if considering a "newly released" engine. Often that firsy year exposes the issues and the second year or generation may have a lot less "bugs" to address.
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Old 10-05-2020, 11:17 AM   #9
LERD
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Agreed! Holds true for the RV's as well
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Old 10-05-2020, 11:36 AM   #10
Canonman
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I can tell you I've never regretted buying our diesel. Our decision was more accidental than the process you're using and one of those "better lucky than good" outcomes.
We just happened to run across a super deal when we were looking to upgrade our '03 F150. While not our daily driver, we have been very happy with the ride and comfort of our Ram. We drive unhitched quire a bit once we arrive at our destinations and find the Ram 2500 and Cummins 6.7 combination easy to maneuver. In fact, no discernible difference from the F150. I can see no disadvantage of driving the diesel opposed to gas. For towing, there is no question in my mind that diesel has the advantage.
Hope this helps.
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Old 10-05-2020, 12:50 PM   #11
LERD
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Yes, thank you
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