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Old 09-08-2019, 07:51 AM   #1
glendar10
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looking for help

we went an bought a new for f250 Diesel sb king ranch with hope it would carry a cougar halfton 29rks. Payload off of sticker is 2029 gfaw 5600 graw 6340 gvwr of 10000 rear end is 3.55. i believe the 5er is 10400 with a pin of 1605. what are the thought about this. we were thinking about the Anderson hitch for the truck. truck has just about every option that ford has except for the heavy tow package as it would lose payload if i ordered it. realy like the 29rks and would like to not get smaller but want to be safe toeing it around the US. i know there are ways to tow it but saftly we should have bought the 1 ton but dw was not sure she would like it even tho it is the same truck. now stuck with this one for a few years.
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Old 09-08-2019, 08:56 AM   #2
JRTJH
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The problem you're going to face is inadequate payload.

Your truck's payload is 2029, that includes all passengers, cargo, fifth wheel hitch in addition to the trailer's pin weight. The 1605 that you list is the "empty pin weight" as the "standard build trailer" leaves the factory. If you order a second A/C, any optional equipment, that 1605 will go up as the weight of options is added to the trailer. Additionally, that 1605 does not include batteries, spare tire or propane (only the empty tank weight).

Most people will find that the most accurate "best guess" for actual pin weight is to use 20% of the trailer GVW as an estimate. In your case, that puts the pin weight at around 20% of 10,400 which is in the 2080 range.

So, chances are very good that you're going to be over your payload rating for that truck when hitched to that trailer.

The question then becomes, are you willing to tow "overloaded per Ford's rating"??? Some will, some won't. That choice is essentially your dilemma.
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Old 09-08-2019, 09:24 AM   #3
notanlines
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Glendar, weight police or not, you simply have no payload to begin with, much less "as it would lose payload if I ordered it."
My conservative guess is that you would be in the 3000-3300 pounds of payload by the time you headed down the highway. Yes, it will haul it up and down the highway. Whether you do or not is another thing.
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Old 09-08-2019, 10:15 AM   #4
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Glendar, as has been pointed out, you simply don't have much payload even though you have a 3/4 ton truck. My truck has a payload just shy of 3200 lbs. as a comparison. Huge difference. I don't have a diesel nor all the weight of the King Ranch version. Those things come at the expense of payload.

As John has pointed out, the pin alone will exceed your payload and that doesn't include people, gear, hitch etc.
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Old 09-08-2019, 12:16 PM   #5
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Your are over thinking this!


Your truck is fine.
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Old 09-08-2019, 12:40 PM   #6
wiredgeorge
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The premise for the numbers given in this thread is that the tongue weight of you proposed 29RKS is 20 percent of the GVWR for the trailer. Say it is 16 or 17 percent and not 20 percent. Say you load the trailer without filling the water tank and the gray and black tanks are empty. Chances are you won't have the 1599 max payload on board. I know one of our guys has a gizmo scale for measuring pin weight or perhaps someone who has the same model Cougar who has made measurements at a scale.

Here is an interesting thread on another RV forum where a guy built a gizmo for measuring pin weight on a trailer that has a 2598 listed pin weight:
https://www.mygrandrv.com/forum/show...eel-Pin-Weight

Found this post on the Heartland forum where there was an interesting thread with as much confusing and conflicting number of opinions:

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Re: Determining loaded 5th wheel pin weight
There is only one way to determine the pin weight, trailer loaded or unloaded, take it to a CATS scale and weigh it. My experience with our 09 3055RL went this way. I weighed the truck empty with full fuel to the cap, Debbie, the dachshund, and me in the cab. My B&W Companion hitch and my 110 pound generator were in the bed. I drove back to the dealer, 7 miles, and hooked up the trailer and went right back to the scales. Reweigh was $1. I found out that the trailer was actually 235 pounds lighter than the published numbers with 25 gallons of water in the tank.. The pin weight was 2150 pounds and the mostly empty trailer weighed 11400. We towed it home and packed up for the 8 day trip to Oshkosh. When we left, I drove righr back to the same CATS scale. I spent a few extra dollars to buy their higher priced fuel and filled the truck to the cap. New weights were pin weight went up to 2400 and gross weight went up to 12100. We had added 700 pounds to the truck. When I take it out of storage I will be weighing it again.

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-----------

RVUSA lists specs for the above model:
Dry Weight 11,076 lbs. GVWR 14,000 lbs. Hitch Weight 1,995 lbs.
-----------
Not trying to muddy the waters but pin weight seems to have no absolute formula except for measuring or guessing. You can chew on all the facts, figures and conventional wisdom or go ask your RV salesman who will tell you everything is just fine and sign on the dotted line!
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Old 09-08-2019, 01:51 PM   #7
sourdough
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiredgeorge View Post
The premise for the numbers given in this thread is that the tongue weight of you proposed 29RKS is 20 percent of the GVWR for the trailer. Say it is 16 or 17 percent and not 20 percent. Say you load the trailer without filling the water tank and the gray and black tanks are empty. Chances are you won't have the 1599 max payload on board. I know one of our guys has a gizmo scale for measuring pin weight or perhaps someone who has the same model Cougar who has made measurements at a scale.

Here is an interesting thread on another RV forum where a guy built a gizmo for measuring pin weight on a trailer that has a 2598 listed pin weight:
https://www.mygrandrv.com/forum/show...eel-Pin-Weight

Found this post on the Heartland forum where there was an interesting thread with as much confusing and conflicting number of opinions:

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Re: Determining loaded 5th wheel pin weight
There is only one way to determine the pin weight, trailer loaded or unloaded, take it to a CATS scale and weigh it. My experience with our 09 3055RL went this way. I weighed the truck empty with full fuel to the cap, Debbie, the dachshund, and me in the cab. My B&W Companion hitch and my 110 pound generator were in the bed. I drove back to the dealer, 7 miles, and hooked up the trailer and went right back to the scales. Reweigh was $1. I found out that the trailer was actually 235 pounds lighter than the published numbers with 25 gallons of water in the tank.. The pin weight was 2150 pounds and the mostly empty trailer weighed 11400. We towed it home and packed up for the 8 day trip to Oshkosh. When we left, I drove righr back to the same CATS scale. I spent a few extra dollars to buy their higher priced fuel and filled the truck to the cap. New weights were pin weight went up to 2400 and gross weight went up to 12100. We had added 700 pounds to the truck. When I take it out of storage I will be weighing it again.

Regards
-----------

RVUSA lists specs for the above model:
Dry Weight 11,076 lbs. GVWR 14,000 lbs. Hitch Weight 1,995 lbs.
-----------
Not trying to muddy the waters but pin weight seems to have no absolute formula except for measuring or guessing. You can chew on all the facts, figures and conventional wisdom or go ask your RV salesman who will tell you everything is just fine and sign on the dotted line!

The deal here is that the OP does not have a trailer to weigh. He also specifically states he wants to tow in a safe manner. Obviously tongue/pin weights can vary all over the place but the accepted norm for trying to determine if a trailer will even work with a projected truck is to use 10-15% for a bumper pull (I like 12% because that's what mine is) or 20-25% for a 5th wheel.

One can speculate all day, and all night, about what the OP may or may not put in the truck/trailer but until it is done, the way he will be doing it, and sat on a scale, there is no other way to safely guess where you will be in the weight spectrum so you use the gvw of both vehicles. On the dot accurate compared to what real life will be? No. Better than assuming everything will be empty and use dry weights for everything? Infinitely. Better than trying to guess at some middle number? Absolutely because none of us has any idea how much of what the OP is going to load up...and neither does he at the moment; he wants to know if his truck will safely pull a particular load. Based on the above assumptions it can't.
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Old 09-08-2019, 02:19 PM   #8
travelin texans
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roscommon48 View Post
Your are over thinking this!


Your truck is fine.
This quite possibly the absolute worst advice you've been given on this thread!
He doesn't know that, we don't know that & at this point neither do you..
The best advice was to take your truck to the scales loaded as you were about to hitch up to the new 5th & get some solid numbers, then you won't be overthinking it, we won't be guessing & you'll know for a fact what's what with print out right in your hand.
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Old 09-09-2019, 03:18 PM   #9
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I know you just bought the F250. Before you get many miles on it You may want to consider a trade to a one ton. I’ve been told that sonar the 3/4 tons are more popular deals can often be found for 1tons. Good luck.
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