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Old 01-10-2012, 11:09 AM   #1
geo
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Thumbs up UltraHeat Tank Heater Installation, Part 1a

Murphy's Law #2 – Everything takes longer than you think.

I decided that adding tank heaters to my Alpine "sounded" like a good idea.

Removing the coroplast was a very simple process. A 3/8" socket and ratchet made quick work of this task. I noticed the self-tapping metal screws on the front and sides were longer than those in the rear. The coroplast is fairly stiff and didn't start to drop until I had slightly over half of the screws removed. But when the coroplast did drop, and though I suspected what I would find, I was a little amazed at the lack of insulation around the Black and Gray2 tanks! (Before_heater.jpg) There was the sheet of coroplast, next a layer of foil-lined bubble wrap, and finally a small patch of R-7 fiberglass insulation that only covered about 50% of the bottom area of the tanks.

Forward of the tank area, there is an area of approximately six feet wide, five feet long, and 10 inches deep that had no insulation whatsoever! This area is immediately beneath the forward section of the storage basement.

I chose the UltraHeat Model 4800 for these 50 gallon tanks. The Model 4800 is a 120VAC heater. My reasoning for this choice was that I did not believe that I would need to heat these tanks during transport and if there was waste in these tanks during transport, that the residual heat plus the warmed air from the furnace would prevent these tanks from freezing, besides the agitation of transport.

I unwrapped the heater pads and placed them on the tanks to get an idea of placement and coverage. I set the pads aside and used isopropyl alcohol and a paper towel to clean the area of application. There are two paper coverings over the pad adhesive area, so I peeled back about 6" from the thermostat end and creased the paper. I then positioned the other end of the pad (cover paper intact) where it had been, made sure of the alignment, and pressed the uncovered adhesive portion of the pad in place. Note, the thermostat end of the pad was placed near the dump valve. The instructions warn not to "smooth" the pad for the rubbing process might stretch the pad heating elements – do just a simple "press". I peeled back more of the two paper cover sheets and pressed the pad on the tank. There are channel grooves in the tank surface. UltraHeat recommends pressing the heating pad around ridges, etc. but to avoid stretching the pad (which would break the heating element). Since the grooves are fairly narrow as compared to the tank, I did not press the pad into these grooves for fear of breaking the heating elements. When one pad was applied to the Black Tank, the other pad was applied to the Gray2 Tank. Once these pads were in place, I tested them. Using an extension cord, I applied power to each of these pads separately and held a bag of ice against the thermostat area. With my other hand placed on the heating area of the pad, I waited for the pad to warm up. It didn't take but just a few seconds before I felt a low, warm heat emitting from the pad. I unplugged the pads and fed the wire through the valve area to the sub-basement area for access later. (Heater_installed.jpg)

So far, there was only about two hours invested in this project. And, if I had left well enough alone and reassembled the R-7 and coroplast back together, I would have probably had this part of the project finished in another hour or so. But what good is a Modification if you don't modify that much?

I had seen a construction video of DRV Elite Suites fifth wheels where that company applied the tank heaters and then hand wraps and stuffs the whole tank area with pink fiberglass insulation. Off to HD I went! I returned with a roll of unfaced R-30 fiberglass insulation and several packages of unfaced R-19 fiberglass insulation batts – and, of course, an always handy roll of duct tape! I unrolled the R-30 and held it up into the empty area forward of the tanks. I used strips of duct tape to stretch across this area to support the R-30 insulation. The R-30 expanded to pretty much fill the depth of the area. I cut some smaller pieces to fill in along the sides as the area was wider than the roll. All of this was held up by stretched duct tape. Next, I hand stuffed a batt of R-19 insulation along the outside edge of each tank carefully avoiding pulling any wires. A batt of R-19 pretty much filled the side area and extended above the tank top and ended at the lower end of the tank. There is a cross-bar about half way down the tank area, so I fed a batt of R-19 at the center, and pulled it until I had enough to slide up completely filling the forward area of the tanks. I then slid the batt to the side (where the clearance between the cross-bar and the tank was less) and merged it with the side insulation. I stuffed the extra all the way up forward of the tanks. I repeated this until the whole "under tank" area was filled edge-to-edge with R-19 batts. (Insulation.jpg).

Next came the process of putting the foil-lined bubble wrap and coroplast back on. I started at the front using the longer metal screws and reattached the coroplast in the exact same way it had been. I did not tighten the metal screws all the way, rather left them slightly loose. When I had almost completely enclosed the forward area, I reached up and loosened the duct tape at the back of that area. I then crawled to the front to detach the forward end of the duct tape and pulled it out of the coroplast. I tightened the metal screws further but not to the fully tightened extent. Next, I attached half of one side of the coloplast with the longer metal screws firmly and crawled to the other side. I used my legs and feet to lift the insulation and coroplast into place, and attached the other half side firmly with the longer metal screws. Once half the coroplast was reattached, I trimmed the batts to have enough length to wrap up the back of the tanks and to extend above the top of the tanks. In the valve areas of the tanks, I trimmed the batts to just cover the area that formerly was vacant beneath the valves. (When the coroplast is totally in place, the valve bottom and the coroplast meet.) I stuffed the R-19 batts at the rear of the tanks and attached the coroplast with the shorter metal screws. Once all the screws were in placed but not fully tightened, I ran a bead of black silicon caulk between the coroplast and the metal beam along the sides and front. I did not run this caulk across the back.

Now, admittedly, the R-19 insulation batts do not weigh much, but the do have some weight and volume. To protect the coroplast and to help support it, I got some 8 foot aluminum strips (1.5" wide and 1/8" thick) from HD. I drilled a ¼" hole two inches back from the end in the center of the aluminum strip. (In some areas, this strip might be called a lathe, not to be confused with a wood/metal turning machine.) At the half way point of the forward tank coroplast, I removed the metal screw, inserted it in the aluminum strip, and loosely attached it. Around to the other side, where I marked the location of the opposite screw on the strip, and then returned to remove the strip. I drilled a ¼" hole at that center point and cut off the excess strip two inches beyond. Back underneath the fiver and attached the aluminum strap firmly with the metal screws. I did this for the quarter-way points also. At the front edge of the coroplast, I marked the metal screw locations on an aluminum strip which had been cut to fully stretch across the full width of the coroplast (six feet). I drilled ¼" holes at the screw location, removed the metal screws and attached the aluminum strip very firmly. On the forward edge of this strip, I applied the black silicon caulk to seal the area between the aluminum and the metal beam of the fiver. In this manner, I sealed the front of the coroplast against any moisture and road chemicals that would spray from the TV tires during transit.

At the back edge of the coroplast, I took another 6 foot aluminum strip, marked the location of the screws on it, and drilled ¼" holes. I attached this aluminum strap to the back edge of the coroplast to firmly hold it in place yet allow for some drainage area around the valves that had been "sealed" into place with green and white sealing foam. (Strap.jpg)

At this point, the modified modification had taken on a life of its own and I probably had 4 -5 hours of time added to the process.

I wanted to attempt to get an insulated forward cocoon around the tanks. The top of the tanks were against the floor of the storage basement. There was some gap at the center of the tanks, so I used unrolled pipe insulation to seal that gap as best I could. On top of that, I ran a length of R-19 fiberglass batt across the top of the tanks and stuffed it under the edge of the storage floor and down the sides of the tanks to block any warmed air infiltration to the forward tank area. As the tank area extends almost three feet behind the storage compartment, the ends of the tanks extend beyond this crosswise insulation, are exposed to the warmed basement, and end at the dump valve area. The furnace ducts were left in place that Keystone installed to warm the valves. (Top.jpg)

I am very certain that the tank area below the storage compartment is nicely insulated and isolated from any of the warm, humid air of the living area of the RV. The valve end of the tanks are pretty much as they were, but with some insulation, and with the installed tank heaters immediately forward of the valve area.

One of our Forum members, Wolfwalker, is a distributor for UltraHeat Tank Heaters. I am sure he would provide anyone interested with more information if you send him a Private Message. UltraHeat also has a website at www.ultraheat.com.

Additional installation posts will follow. Until then, Happy Camping!

Ron
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Old 01-10-2012, 02:32 PM   #2
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Man, I'm worn out just reading this.

Great post, I'm not at all surprised at what you found after reading numerous posts here.

BTW, my tank isn't finished yet, I'll call when I head up our way. I got word my 5er is rolling off the line about the 23rd, to the paint shop for another week, after which it will be transported to Prescott. Getting anxious.
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Old 01-10-2012, 03:38 PM   #3
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great post...yet another project added to my todo list
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Old 01-10-2012, 03:44 PM   #4
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Part 1b

Thanks, Larry! Over two weekends, I was worn out too.

Part 1b - The next step and post will be installing the Control Panel switches and wiring. I hope this all goes smoothly this next weekend. Obviously, I'm not planning any modifications on that part.

The last part will be installing the Fresh Water and Gray1 tank heaters. Due to circumstances, this chore will have to wait until February. This installation will have to involve cutting the coroplast for access. I have already ordered and received some "under belly tape" from RV Surplus - a Web store suggested by Flyguy. This is some wicked, wide tape used to seal the belly coverings on RVs and Mobile Homes.

Stay tuned for another tiring post.

Ron
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Old 01-10-2012, 06:14 PM   #5
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Ron, Super looking insulation project. One suggestion to save you some money if you're interested: Rather than use the aluminum strips for support, go to the carpet department of Lowes or HD and look for the aluminum carpet runner strips. They are anodized, have predrilled holes, are hardened and about 1/3 the cost of the strips in the metals department. I bought mine at Lowes, they are 6' long 1 1/2" wide and worked perfectly, they have a slight bend in them so they put additional pressure on the coroplast to help seal it better to the frame. Just a suggestion, in case you're interested.... What you've done will give you an arctic polar package by the time you're finished

John
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Old 01-10-2012, 07:22 PM   #6
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John -
Thanks! The aluminum carpet runner sounds like a great idea! When I start on the Fresh Water and Gray1 tanks, I will definitely head off to the carpet department!

Though this has nothing to do with the tank heaters, I am planning on putting the aluminum strips spaced out every three feet or so down the rest of the fiver under belly. It just looks like it adds some "substance" to the coroplast. I know from another member's post, an unexpected accident can wreak havoc with the coroplast. Thanks for the tip!

Ron
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Old 01-13-2012, 08:11 AM   #7
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Ron,

Great job, and you were correct not to press the pad into the grooves. I don't care which manufacturer has claims of artic package, there is always room for improvement. Anyone, living in Wyoming, North Dakota and surrounding areas in their camper can attest that there are lots of problems and testing to 0 degrees should be changed to -30 below!

Look forward to the completion of modification..
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Old 01-13-2012, 08:24 AM   #8
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Wolfwalker, Howdy;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfwalker View Post
Ron,

Great job, and you were correct not to press the pad into the grooves. I don't care which manufacturer has claims of artic package, there is always room for improvement. Anyone, living in Wyoming, North Dakota and surrounding areas in their camper can attest that there are lots of problems and testing to 0 degrees should be changed to -30 below!

Look forward to the completion of modification..
I agree about the test temp. should be lowered. Oooops, I forgot ...
it would cost moer to do that.....they in the biddnes of making $$$'s ...
not spending $$$'s

hankaye
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Old 03-23-2016, 09:14 AM   #9
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Had to pull some paneling off in the nose of my fifth wheel to find a leak. As you can see from the picture there insulation of installation is pretty weak. The reason for the leak was there failure two hook up the Trap drain for washer and dryer drain.
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